Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 983702 times)

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3975 on: March 01, 2021, 02:41:00 PM »
It's clear to me that part of the problem with the FBI's investigation is that it lacked institutional memory after a few years. In other words, as new agents entered the investigation they were unaware of what had been discovered or transpired up to that point.

I think this plays a role in the fiberglass find in 1975. It may have played a role in the Hicks' find in 1978. It certainly played a role with Larry Carr not realizing the cigarette butts hadn't been lost, but rather destroyed. It also played a part with Larry not knowing where the yellow FBI Flight Path map came from.

It is important to remember this fact as we read through the 302s. Ultimately it is going to lead to errors in the 302s which makes it difficult for those of us investigating today to ascertain what is accurate and what is flawed.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3976 on: March 01, 2021, 02:59:13 PM »
I have to disagree with this due to the nature of how the guy describes the part. he doesn't mention it being a piece of a part. it's implied or written as a complete piece. they guy looked up the part number which I believe you couldn't find on the skirting? you would expect him to say it was part of the skirting from the stairs.

Maybe it's just me but I would want to know more about the part vs the size and if I was the founder, I would explain what the part is used for since I took the time to look the number up or explain it's only a portion of something. the guy worked for Boeing. the Ingrams didn't tell them they found all the money?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3977 on: March 01, 2021, 05:38:32 PM »
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I have to disagree with this due to the nature of how the guy describes the part. he doesn't mention it being a piece of a part. it's implied or written as a complete piece. they guy looked up the part number which I believe you couldn't find on the skirting? you would expect him to say it was part of the skirting from the stairs.

Maybe it's just me but I would want to know more about the part vs the size and if I was the founder, I would explain what the part is used for since I took the time to look the number up or explain it's only a portion of something. the guy worked for Boeing. the Ingrams didn't tell them they found all the money?

Shutter, are you suggesting that the Ingrams did find all the money (all $200,000)? :o

Eric has a point about the FBI losing institutional memory.  Even if the FBI has a million pages of documentation, there are still many things that don't get written down.  And the FBI agents could retire after 25 years of service so any agent involved in the initial Cooper investigation was probably long gone by 1995.  Was Larry Carr even born in 1971 when the hijacking occurred?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3978 on: March 01, 2021, 05:42:26 PM »
It was more of an example. no, they didn't tell the FBI they had all the money. the hunter who found the part didn't specify the part being partial or a piece of one. it's explained, at least in my view as a whole part.

Larry Carr has nothing to do with the placard or part found...
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 05:46:22 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3979 on: March 01, 2021, 05:46:57 PM »
Another "coincidence" that I find intriguing is that according to the timing of the flight path--both FBI and Western--I estimate that 305 would be very near Tena Bar at about 8:13 to 8:14.

I find it remarkable that the jump time happens to put DBC very near where the money was found. Considering the flight lasted about 207 minutes, isn't it a fantastical coincidence that the jump time lines up within a minute or two of where the money was later found? Or perhaps this isn't coincidence at all and DBC jumped and landed very near Tena Bar.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3980 on: March 01, 2021, 05:51:51 PM »
It's hard to follow some things that are said over time. some don't believe the Air Force map but believe the placard evidence and certain times on the transcripts. then discuss memory issues with the FBI. it's kind of contradicting?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 05:52:24 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3981 on: March 01, 2021, 05:56:12 PM »
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It was more of an example. no, they didn't tell the FBI they had all the money. the hunter who found the part didn't specify the part being partial or a piece of one. it's explained, at least in my view as a whole part.

Larry Carr has nothing to do with the placard or part found...

That's my point.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3982 on: March 01, 2021, 06:00:33 PM »
That's not a point. even if the FBI had memory problems it doesn't dismiss documents made during any certain period. they seem to have problems keeping track of what was documented over 50 years. could be lazy agents not wanting to spend the time reading the files or even knowing how to find things.

We don't have much left if the FBI and the Air Force didn't have a clue what they were doing. if you believe that, then nothing can be used to build a theory?

Also, some discredit Paul S. from NWO making things worse...
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 06:03:31 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3983 on: March 01, 2021, 06:17:20 PM »
As I mentioned to 377 a few days ago on the phone, I've had this nagging feeling that I'm missing something right in front of me concerning this case that could serve as the linchpin. And I think that linchpin may be the money find.

We know where the money was found. We know that 305 was probably within 120 seconds of Tena Bar at the 8:12 jump time. We know that lugging--at a minimum--a 20 lbs. bag of cash wasn't easy for a guy in his mid-40's who apparently was a smoker wearing loafers and a suit.

That said, I am convinced that the truth of it all is staring us right in the face. That is, that this is really no more complicated than DBC jumped very near 8:12 pm and landed very near Tena Bar where he temporarily stashed that money before later coming back to retrieve it.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3984 on: March 01, 2021, 06:25:13 PM »
You can't really judge Cooper because of his age and his smoking. plenty of people, including myself are in good shape who have smoked for years and able to carry on like everyone else. then the fact of feeling like an escaped convict with dogs on your ass will get you in gear pretty quick. no hunger is going to bother you unless you stop for a long period or feel safe enough with the surroundings that would bring back the hunger and the cold.

Put a guy out there a hundred pounds over weight and never seen a treadmill or his feet in ten years will run out of gas in 20 minutes without gear..
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3985 on: March 01, 2021, 06:36:03 PM »
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You can't really judge Cooper because of his age and his smoking. plenty of people, including myself are in good shape who have smoked for years and able to carry on like everyone else. then the fact of feeling like an escaped convict with dogs on your ass will get you in gear pretty quick. no hunger is going to bother you unless you stop for a long period or feel safe enough with the surroundings that would bring back the hunger and the cold.

Put a guy out there a hundred pounds over weight and never seen a treadmill or his feet in ten years will run out of gas in 20 minutes without gear..

Of course you can make some reasoned assumptions based upon the real-world challenges he faced.

I'm 55 y/o, 6'3", weigh 205 lbs, don't smoke, and am in pretty good shape. That said, put me in the middle of no where at night when it is cold and raining wearing loafers and a suit with a raincoat, load me down with at least a 20 lb bag of cash, and force me to start walking through brush, and mud puddles and sticker bushes all while trying to avoid being seen before the sun rises and I'm not getting any further than a mile or two before I decide, "I've got to stash this shit somewhere or else I'm going to get caught or die out here."

Additionally, I'm going to be thinking that I can get back to a warm restaurant or somewhere else a lot faster if I'm not trying to replicate some survivalist challenge.

It's smart, but more importantly, it's probably going to be physically required. I'm telling you, just the act of searching for about 6 hours or so each day during filming wiped us all out.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 06:37:35 PM by EU »
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3986 on: March 01, 2021, 06:42:12 PM »
It's not going to be the same. you have nothing to strive for other than trying to prove a point while out there. a criminal gains power and adrenaline. his life is on the line. he knows he has to move or trouble will find him quick. kind of like a mother picking up a car to save her son. we have no clue what Cooper was doing in his life to gain an advantage.

Sure, it's possible he hid the money and got out fast. McCoy did that and was able to go back and get it..
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3987 on: March 01, 2021, 10:38:42 PM »
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That's not a point. even if the FBI had memory problems it doesn't dismiss documents made during any certain period. they seem to have problems keeping track of what was documented over 50 years. could be lazy agents not wanting to spend the time reading the files or even knowing how to find things.

We don't have much left if the FBI and the Air Force didn't have a clue what they were doing. if you believe that, then nothing can be used to build a theory?

Also, some discredit Paul S. from NWO making things worse...

Do you believe any FBI agent read the entire Cooper file?  Larry Carr apparently made a serious effort to familiarize himself with the case file, but how many other agents who were assigned to the case over the years did the same thing?
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3988 on: March 02, 2021, 12:04:20 AM »
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That's not a point. even if the FBI had memory problems it doesn't dismiss documents made during any certain period. they seem to have problems keeping track of what was documented over 50 years. could be lazy agents not wanting to spend the time reading the files or even knowing how to find things.

We don't have much left if the FBI and the Air Force didn't have a clue what they were doing. if you believe that, then nothing can be used to build a theory?

Also, some discredit Paul S. from NWO making things worse...

Do you believe any FBI agent read the entire Cooper file?  Larry Carr apparently made a serious effort to familiarize himself with the case file, but how many other agents who were assigned to the case over the years did the same thing?
Can you prove they didn’t? Moreover, if they did, would it change your mind in the case?
“Completely unhinged”
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3989 on: March 02, 2021, 12:16:16 AM »
I guess you could ask what decade they read all the files. we have no idea what agent X did in 1988?

One of the problems I see with the FBI is the failure to close a case or allow a cold case team go through it with a fine tooth comb. most cases are closed anywhere from months to several years. once it starts going nowhere it gets put on the shelf.

The 70's had the placard and the John Doe warrant.
The 80's the money was found at the beginning of the decade.
The 90's got Lyle and Jo  :rofl:
2000's we have the DNA, Tom Kaye and the particles/diatoms.