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Again...

The documents prior to the newspaper report support it coming from 305. they explain it possibly came out after the stairs were opened and pressure pulled it off the wall. they wouldn't explain that if the drawings showed the placard on the fuselage.

Cinebar was not dismissed by part number..

And you are saying TK's analysis of the placard was wrong ??

Georger, as you well know the analysis I made for TK was extremely conservative and intended to be so.  This was so stated from the very beginning.

After TK came up with the actual measured winds aloft for the evening of the hijacking, EU provided me with better information on the size and weight of the actual placard.  The measured winds aloft were found to be higher than the winds aloft predicted by the weather service and provided to the pilots that evening.  The actual placard was lighter and I think a bit larger than the values I had originally used for the TK analysis.

The end result was that the predicted drift distance was about three times further than the values I came up with for the TK analysis.  Using the new drift distance estimate and TK's GPS coordinates for the placard find location, the placard would have separated from the airliner several miles west of the center line of V-23.  And the FBI flight path is well east of of the V-23 center line in that area.

FYI, if the airliner was planning to stay on V-23, it would have stayed on the center line of V-23 after turning toward Portland at the Malay Intersection.  IFR air traffic normally is required to be on the center line of airways unless otherwise cleared.  Since the airliner was well west of the center line of V-23, it is obvious that it was deliberately not following V-23 but was bypassing Portland on the west side.  The flight path it was following is what is now referred to as the Western Flight Path.

All of the above has been discussed any number of times both here and on DropZone.  I have repeatedly referred you and others to FAA publications that describe aeronautical navigation, air traffic control, aeronautical maps, and other such things.  But it is obvious that you have not made any effort to learn how things are actually done in the real world.

So neither you (Georger), Chaucer, or anyone else has a valid complaint on the flight path.  Who knows where you are coming from?   

FJ, careful with wind data. ground winds mean nothing here..winds can change aloft and can differ with ground winds.

I mentioned this earlier, but I’d like to bring it up again. I noticed a discrepancy in the V23 centerline. On the FBI yellow map, V23 passes approximately 2 miles to the west of Toutle. On Skyvector, V23 is shown going directly over the top of Toutle.

Is there an explanation for this difference?

I mentioned this earlier, but I’d like to bring it up again. I noticed a discrepancy in the V23 centerline. On the FBI yellow map, V23 passes approximately 2 miles to the west of Toutle. On Skyvector, V23 is shown going directly over the top of Toutle.

Is there an explanation for this difference?

You bet there is.  There was an extended discussion of this difference a number of years ago on DropZone.  Snowmann eventually made some maps to illustrate this.  To make a long story short, Toutle was simply plotted at a different location on more recent maps.  That is all there is to it.

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I mentioned this earlier, but I’d like to bring it up again. I noticed a discrepancy in the V23 centerline. On the FBI yellow map, V23 passes approximately 2 miles to the west of Toutle. On Skyvector, V23 is shown going directly over the top of Toutle.

Is there an explanation for this difference?

You bet there is.  There was an extended discussion of this difference a number of years ago on DropZone.  Snowmann eventually made some maps to illustrate this.  To make a long story short, Toutle was simply plotted at a different location on more recent maps.  That is all there is to it.

Silver lake seems to line up...

From the Battleground VORTEC to the Columbia via flight path is roughly 11 nautical miles. then from the north side of the Columbia to 23 miles DME is is roughly 14 miles. for a total of 25 nautical miles.

The asterisk mark is a problem with timing if not mistaken? that's beside the 8:22 mark for 23 miles DME.. the next entry is 8:52 claiming no contact with the hijacker in 55 minutes. that gives a time issue as well.

The map has error's in it and is not a carbon copy of the path. but it appears to be about a 2 nautical mile error from mapping it out rather quickly (hour)

Is this enough to move the whole path?

Nope.  The problem is the redactions to the Seattle ATC radio transcripts.  These redactions were made to prevent people from being able to determine where the airliner was at specific times.

As I have pointed out numerous times, if you want to see what the Seattle ATC radio transcripts should look like, just take a look at the Oakland ATC and Reno Tower radio transcripts.  And note that the only redactions in the radio transcripts are in the Seattle transcripts.

The dots also have two stories..a radar operator says one thing and you say another.

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I mentioned this earlier, but I’d like to bring it up again. I noticed a discrepancy in the V23 centerline. On the FBI yellow map, V23 passes approximately 2 miles to the west of Toutle. On Skyvector, V23 is shown going directly over the top of Toutle.

Is there an explanation for this difference?

You bet there is.  There was an extended discussion of this difference a number of years ago on DropZone.  Snowmann eventually made some maps to illustrate this.  To make a long story short, Toutle was simply plotted at a different location on more recent maps.  That is all there is to it.

Silver lake seems to line up...

Portland VORTAC (now known as the Battleground VORTAC) and the Mayfield Intersection (now known as the Malay Intersection) are at the same geographical positions today that they were at in 1971.  It is simply the town of Toutle that got replotted at a different location.