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It is interesting to consider what precipitated the fiberglass skirts breaking away from the jet, as well as the placard.

The skirts would have to have experienced a very robust side wind to break away which suggests it happened at the time Cooper was preparing to jump or actually jumped. That said, the skirt was found well north of that area. Perhaps DBC was doing some stuff with the stairs which created the turbulence that was felt (seems unlikely) or perhaps it was turbulence that caused the airstairs to bounce which provided enough force to pop the skirts.

The placard is another matter entirely because it was actually ripped. Also, it was not riveted to the inside of the jet, rather it was affixed to the jet with an adhesive on its backside. It almost appears that DBC deliberately tore the piece off the wall. That said, perhaps a gust of wind ripped it off. Very odd.

FJ says you are inventing all of this - its not even real. Has nothing to do with "anything"!

Why  should voters believe you ?

Georger, why should anyone believe you or FJ?  That is the question you and FJ need to answer.

Regarding the Cinebar panel find:

I have attached a map that demonstrates the distance from Cinebar to the assumed FBI flight path.  I measured the distance to various points along the FBI flight path as shown on the "yellow map".  I used the center of town as a reference since we do not know the exact location of the find; therefore, I would allow for a 2 miles radius around Cinebar as a margin of error.

I'm certain it is not perfectly exact, so please allow for a reasonable margin of error.

As you can see, the distance from the FBI flight path to Cinebar ranges from 9.7 to 26.5 miles. Using EU and R99's own calculations, this would seem to put the panel find within the range of the FBI flight path as 305 passed by Cinebar to the west.

Based on this, I think this calls into serious question the panel find as evidence of a western flight path (the distance for the panel to travel seems too far). Actually, it seems more in line with the conventional FBI flight path.

However, I encourage all of you to factcheck me, correct any errors, and draw your own conclusions. I'm prepared to be wrong about this!

You're actually validating my point and the Western Flight Path. Here's how:

1) The panel was from 305, unless 727s make a habit of flying around with their airstairs deployed.

2) The hunting lands begin just east of Cinebar, meaning that the distances you've measures are actually a little further from the FBI Flight Path.

3) A rough estimate by me has the panel drifting 1-2 miles to the northeast before hitting the forest floor.

Therefore, one can only deduce that the jet was not traveling along the FBI Flight Path but several miles east of the FBI Flight Path at that point. Meaning that the physical evidence does not support the FBI Flight Path, but rather a different flight path.

EU,

1. I never said the panel wasn’t from the 305. I think it likely was.

2. You keep referring to these “hunting grounds”. You yourself have said that the hunting grounds was an assumption on your part. There is no reference to hunting grounds in the FBI memo.

3. Before you said the calculations you made indicated a drift of 7 or 8 miles and that was a conservative estimate. Now you are saying it indicates a more easterly path?

4. What 305 was doing around Portland has nothing to do with the panel at Cinebar.

There is another document that states different. from Toledo down past the Lewis river is not a lot of turns. the other documents states it was used in certain time frames. I will have to find it. the document you refer to also show the FDR had the ability to have time stamps since it was examined minutely showing the FDR was valuable.

The auto pilot was good to use. I used it as well. it keeps the altitude and speed which was two things they agreed with in the demands. you can set it to VOR's as well. it's a very good auto pilot.

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One other point.

The FBI Flight Path arguably depicts 305 making all kinds of turns in and around Portland/Vancouver. However, an FBI file in Part 12, Page 181 quite clearly asserts that the airliner was on autopilot during this phase.

Does the FBI Flight Path in any way resemble an airliner on autopilot? Does the Western Flight Path resemble an airliner on autopilot?

No, it doesn't. it makes a comment that the auto pilot was used in Washington. I'll have to look up the document for the exact terms used. does not say it was used from start to finish. also, you can fly with the auto pilot and make turns while maintaining altitude and speed. the auto pilot can be set up multiple ways. the straight lines seen can be noted as using auto pilot with drifting.

The document I referenced is very specific in that it says that the pilots could have felt a change in the pitch of the aircraft when DBC jumped had it not been that it was flying on autopilot. The inference clearly being that the jet was flying on autopilot when DBC jumped.

The jet was on autopilot at the time DBC jumped. At a minimum this proves he didn't jump and land in the Columbia River near PDX--unless someone wants to argue that the FBI Flight Path depicted at that point denotes an airliner on autopilot.

Moreover, why would the airliner be on autopilot out of Seattle, then go off autopilot near Portland, then go back on autopilot south of Portland? Nothing in the files say that the pilots did this.

The FDR is going to show a similar pattern. they examined it several times an Paul S. wasn't a rookie. he had a lot on the line so I'm sure he used everything he knew to try and find Cooper.

Regarding the Cinebar panel find:

I have attached a map that demonstrates the distance from Cinebar to the assumed FBI flight path.  I measured the distance to various points along the FBI flight path as shown on the "yellow map".  I used the center of town as a reference since we do not know the exact location of the find; therefore, I would allow for a 2 miles radius around Cinebar as a margin of error.

I'm certain it is not perfectly exact, so please allow for a reasonable margin of error.

As you can see, the distance from the FBI flight path to Cinebar ranges from 9.7 to 26.5 miles. Using EU and R99's own calculations, this would seem to put the panel find within the range of the FBI flight path as 305 passed by Cinebar to the west.

Based on this, I think this calls into serious question the panel find as evidence of a western flight path (the distance for the panel to travel seems too far). Actually, it seems more in line with the conventional FBI flight path.

However, I encourage all of you to factcheck me, correct any errors, and draw your own conclusions. I'm prepared to be wrong about this!

Chaucer,

You have just flunked Map Reading 101.

I cannot find Cinebar on an aeronautical chart but can find Mossyrock.  Mossyrock is 11 statute miles EAST of the centerline of V-23. 

Your depiction of the FBI flight path is several miles WEST of the centerline of V-23.  You have Onalaska plotted well EAST of the FBI flight path while in fact it is about 1 statute mile WEST of the centerline of V-23.

You have the FBI flight path passing several miles south of Toutle while in fact the centerline of V-23 passes directly overhead of Toutle.

All indications, including two position reports, indicates that the airlines was tracking down the centerline of V-23 from SEATAC to the Malay Intersection.  The airliner was within a thousand feet of the centerline of V-23 the instant it left the ground at SEATAC (and for that matter the entire time that it was on the ground at SEATAC).

The so-called Western Flight Path describes what the airliner probably did immediately after passing the Malay Intersection.  And that is it continued straight south with respect to the grid lines until it was in the vicinity of the
Canby Intersection.  At no time would the airliner be more than about five statute miles from the western edge of V-23.

There is apparently no information available as to exactly where the fiberglass skirt was found in the Cinebar area.  So no definite conclusions can be drawn as to how far it drifted in the wind.  But the aerodynamics of this fiberglass skirt are going to be completely different from the aerodynamics of the placard.

Chaucer, in lieu of detention, you are directed (not asked or suggested!) to go to the FAA's web page and download their free publication on aircraft navigation.  Then read the damn thing!  Material in that publication will be on the absolute final on this matter.