Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 1100991 times)

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3330 on: October 15, 2020, 11:33:34 PM »
Thanks, Shutter.

This has always confused me. I was under the impression that the oscillations continued for a few minutes before ending with a pressure change or bump. I thought the oscillations began earlier than 8:11 and that 8:11 was the time of the bump. Seems that based on what you shared that perhaps the bump/jump occurred well after the assume 8:11 time.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3331 on: October 15, 2020, 11:45:36 PM »
Depends on where you read the times. lots of things in this case seem to have several conclusions. the common was the crew stated the oscillation happened 5-10 minutes after the last contact with Cooper. then apparently Rataczak told Carr it was between 10-15 minutes?
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3332 on: October 15, 2020, 11:59:23 PM »
So, to avoid getting sidetracked...would this information suggest that the aft stairs would not have been opened by Cooper until 8:05?

If 8:05 is the first time Cooper deployed the aft stairs in flight, then that would be the earliest that the fiberglass paneling could have come off. That would mean that it would have to travel approximately 30 miles north-northwest to Cinebar - and that is based on the FBI flight path. The distance traveled would be even farther, the more west you make the path.

That doesn't seem plausible.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3333 on: October 16, 2020, 12:05:45 AM »
Have you read the radio transcripts?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3334 on: October 16, 2020, 12:06:33 AM »
Cooper got the stairs dropped very early into the flight..
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3335 on: October 16, 2020, 12:09:48 AM »
I have read the transcripts a few times, but there is so much info that it is hard to keep track of everything.

So, Cooper opened the aft stairs early in the flight, but only started down them around 8:05? And then jumped anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes after that?
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3336 on: October 16, 2020, 12:13:49 AM »
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I have read the transcripts a few times, but there is so much info that it is hard to keep track of everything.

So, Cooper opened the aft stairs early in the flight, but only started down them around 8:05? And then jumped anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes after that?

No, the last transmission from Cooper was at 8:05 that's why they use that as a reference. the oscillation occurs at around 8:10/11 that's during the crossing of the Lewis river. read the timing I post earlier..the 8:05 obviously shows him still on the plane.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 12:14:52 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3337 on: October 16, 2020, 12:23:09 AM »
The FBI memo regarding the Cinebar paneling find is dated 2/14/1975. Does anyone know what the hunting seasons are in Washington? If we know what he might be hunting, we might know popular areas around Cinebar for that type of game. That could help us narrow down where the paneling was found. If I'm not mistaken, February is usually for big game: elk, black bear, bobcat, coyote.

It's a stretch, but maybe worth it?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 12:24:52 AM by Chaucer »
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3338 on: October 16, 2020, 01:20:53 AM »
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The FBI memo regarding the Cinebar paneling find is dated 2/14/1975. Does anyone know what the hunting seasons are in Washington? If we know what he might be hunting, we might know popular areas around Cinebar for that type of game. That could help us narrow down where the paneling was found. If I'm not mistaken, February is usually for big game: elk, black bear, bobcat, coyote.

It's a stretch, but maybe worth it?

Kermit can probably provide information on the hunting seasons.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3339 on: October 16, 2020, 02:04:57 AM »
The plane experienced turbulence which precipitated the cockpit trying to reach Cooper for a couple of minutes before he finally responded at 8:05. Not sure if this played into the missing panels.
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Offline dudeman17

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3340 on: October 16, 2020, 03:10:38 AM »
What might make sense for 'oscillations'...

When Cooper opens the door, they drop somewhat but are being held up (partially closed) by the air pressure of the relative wind. When he ventures out on them to jump, his weight causes them to lower somewhat, which would affect the pitch (tail up/nose down). When he jumps, the stairs recoil back up, past their 'static' position. (In fact, they apparently almost closed, which caused the 'pressure bump'.) Then they would fall back down again, again pushing on the air. They would bounce up and down on the air a number of times before settling back to the 'static' position. each time giving a bit of pitch influence.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3341 on: October 16, 2020, 05:11:47 AM »
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I have read the transcripts a few times, but there is so much info that it is hard to keep track of everything.

So, Cooper opened the aft stairs early in the flight, but only started down them around 8:05? And then jumped anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes after that?

Get the timeline Sluggo wrote. That helps put these complex things into context. These timelines may be a minute or two off.

At 8:05 Cooper and the cockpit talk.

8:12 - 305 advises we are getting oscillations in the cabin - Cooper must be doing something with the stairs.

8:15 - Important!  - SEA CNTR advises Portland altimeter is 30.03 inches of Hg. (This is important because it indicates that at 20:15:56 305 was very near Portland).

The 8:15 transmission offers temporal and positional context to everything above according to pilots: Sluggo, Hominid, Farflung, Anderson, and others.
 
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 05:15:44 AM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3342 on: October 16, 2020, 10:57:15 AM »
It is interesting to consider what precipitated the fiberglass skirts breaking away from the jet, as well as the placard.

The skirts would have to have experienced a very robust side wind to break away which suggests it happened at the time Cooper was preparing to jump or actually jumped. That said, the skirt was found well north of that area. Perhaps DBC was doing some stuff with the stairs which created the turbulence that was felt (seems unlikely) or perhaps it was turbulence that caused the airstairs to bounce which provided enough force to pop the skirts.

The placard is another matter entirely because it was actually ripped. Also, it was not riveted to the inside of the jet, rather it was affixed to the jet with an adhesive on its backside. It almost appears that DBC deliberately tore the piece off the wall. That said, perhaps a gust of wind ripped it off. Very odd.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3343 on: October 16, 2020, 02:14:22 PM »
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It is interesting to consider what precipitated the fiberglass skirts breaking away from the jet, as well as the placard.

The skirts would have to have experienced a very robust side wind to break away which suggests it happened at the time Cooper was preparing to jump or actually jumped. That said, the skirt was found well north of that area. Perhaps DBC was doing some stuff with the stairs which created the turbulence that was felt (seems unlikely) or perhaps it was turbulence that caused the airstairs to bounce which provided enough force to pop the skirts.

The placard is another matter entirely because it was actually ripped. Also, it was not riveted to the inside of the jet, rather it was affixed to the jet with an adhesive on its backside. It almost appears that DBC deliberately tore the piece off the wall. That said, perhaps a gust of wind ripped it off. Very odd.

FJ says you are inventing all of this - its not even real. Has nothing to do with "anything"!

Why  should voters believe you ?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 02:18:45 PM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #3344 on: October 16, 2020, 03:02:11 PM »
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It is interesting to consider what precipitated the fiberglass skirts breaking away from the jet, as well as the placard.

The skirts would have to have experienced a very robust side wind to break away which suggests it happened at the time Cooper was preparing to jump or actually jumped. That said, the skirt was found well north of that area. Perhaps DBC was doing some stuff with the stairs which created the turbulence that was felt (seems unlikely) or perhaps it was turbulence that caused the airstairs to bounce which provided enough force to pop the skirts.

The placard is another matter entirely because it was actually ripped. Also, it was not riveted to the inside of the jet, rather it was affixed to the jet with an adhesive on its backside. It almost appears that DBC deliberately tore the piece off the wall. That said, perhaps a gust of wind ripped it off. Very odd.

FJ says you are inventing all of this - its not even real. Has nothing to do with "anything"!

Why  should voters believe you ?

Let's just say that I'm not going to engage or be lectured to by internet trolls.

On the other hand, if someone wants to have a comprehensive debate concerning the facts and the case in real time via Darren's podcast, I am down with that...

...(crickets chirping)...oh well.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK