Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 916274 times)

Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #315 on: June 10, 2014, 12:51:33 PM »
Hominid, YOU need to start reading your own posts.  And if your local library has a dictionary, stop by and look up the meaning of the word "t-r-a-n-s-c-r-i-p-t", among others.  With luck, the library will have a docent to help you with this task.

So let's take a look at a some of those messages in the Xerox copies of the ARINC teletype print outs that appear in the 99 page PI document.  Let's start with the very first message on the very first page of those print outs.

Does the message at 3:07 PM PST represent anything other than a routine departure message related to a specific aircraft and stations?  Are we safe in assuming that this message relates to Flight 305, that the flight took off from Portland, and that its destination is Seattle?

Does the message at 6:42 PM PST have anything to do with Flight 305?  Or is it just a routine transmission over the ARINC system related to another NWA aircraft?

Does the message at 7:34 PM PST have anything to do with Flight 305?  Or is it just another routine transmission over the ARINC system related to another NWA aircraft?  This specific message has been discussed at length on another Cooper thread.

Whether you can believe it or not, the above messages were not emergencies and were routinely transmitted over the ARINC system on the afternoon and evening of November 24, 1971, in accordance with NWA's contract with ARINC.

It would be helpful if you confined your lectures to subjects that you have at least some knowledge of.

Robert99

 

 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 12:53:09 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline hom

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #316 on: June 10, 2014, 03:46:41 PM »
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Robert99

          buzz
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             buzz
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          buzz
_______∞__________


SMACK!

DAMNED PESKY GNAT
 

georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #317 on: June 11, 2014, 04:16:26 PM »
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Robert99

          buzz
        ∞


                buzz
             ∞


                   buzz
                ∞


                buzz
            ∞
       ∞           buzz
                 ∞

               buzz
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          buzz
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           buzz
        ∞


             buzz
           ∞


             buzz
          ∞


          buzz
_______∞__________


SMACK!

DAMNED PESKY GNAT

Skin so Soft - (or vanilla)

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #318 on: June 30, 2014, 10:31:55 PM »
According to another person Bill Rataczak made this statement:
"We know where Cooper jumped. We just don't know where he landed."

I haven't found that quote yet, but here is one from Rataczak.

"During our descent into Reno, we made a P.A. to Cooper (if he was still there) that the stairs
needed to be raised for landing so they would not be damaged, which could prevent a subsequent takeoff'

And here:

“I agree with my good friend, FBI Agent Ralph Himmelsbach, who bird-dogged the Cooper case for
many years,” Rataczak says. “I don’t think he made it out alive. I think he’s down there in the blackberry
brambles someplace.”

Doesn't sound to me as if he, or anyone knows exactly where Cooper jumped, or they wouldn't have checked with
Cooper on the PA if they were aware he left the plane.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #319 on: June 30, 2014, 10:49:53 PM »
This is from Wiki. did Scott fly the plane anytime after leaving SEA?

Subsequent analyses called the original landing zone estimate into question: Scott, who was flying the aircraft manually because of Cooper's speed and altitude demands, later determined that his flight path was significantly farther east than initially assumed.[6] Additional data from a variety of sources—in particular Continental Airlines pilot Tom Bohan, who was flying four minutes behind Flight 305—indicated that the wind direction factored into drop zone calculations had been wrong, possibly by as much as 80 degrees.[56] This and other supplemental data suggested that the actual drop zone was probably south-southeast of the original estimate, in the drainage area of the Washougal River.[57]

"I have to confess," wrote retired FBI chief investigator Ralph Himmelsbach in his 1986 book, "if I [were] going to look for Cooper, I would head for the Washougal."[58] The Washougal Valley and its surroundings have been searched by multiple private individuals and groups in subsequent years; to date, nothing directly traceable to the hijacking has been found.[6]
 

Offline hom

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #320 on: July 01, 2014, 12:35:40 AM »
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According to another person Bill Rataczak made this statement:
"We know where Cooper jumped. We just don't know where he landed."

I haven't found that quote yet, but here is one from Rataczak.

"During our descent into Reno, we made a P.A. to Cooper (if he was still there) that the stairs
needed to be raised for landing so they would not be damaged, which could prevent a subsequent takeoff'

And here:

“I agree with my good friend, FBI Agent Ralph Himmelsbach, who bird-dogged the Cooper case for
many years,” Rataczak says. “I don’t think he made it out alive. I think he’s down there in the blackberry
brambles someplace.”

Doesn't sound to me as if he, or anyone knows exactly where Cooper jumped, or they wouldn't have checked with
Cooper on the PA if they were aware he left the plane.

I think if you check back on posts by that other person you will find that the statement used to be that they knew when he jumped, not where he jumped, and that the "when" was when the pressure pulse occurred, NOT at 0xxxZ.  You won't find anywhere but "that other person" saying they knew where the HJ jumped.  I think they were confident, but not absolutely certain, that he had jumped at the time the pressure pulse occurred, whenever that was.

« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 12:43:18 AM by hom »
 

Offline hom

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #321 on: July 01, 2014, 12:42:25 AM »
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This is from Wiki. did Scott fly the plane anytime after leaving SEA?

Subsequent analyses called the original landing zone estimate into question: Scott, who was flying the aircraft manually because of Cooper's speed and altitude demands, later determined that his flight path was significantly farther east than initially assumed.[6] Additional data from a variety of sources—in particular Continental Airlines pilot Tom Bohan, who was flying four minutes behind Flight 305—indicated that the wind direction factored into drop zone calculations had been wrong, possibly by as much as 80 degrees.[56] This and other supplemental data suggested that the actual drop zone was probably south-southeast of the original estimate, in the drainage area of the Washougal River.[57]

"I have to confess," wrote retired FBI chief investigator Ralph Himmelsbach in his 1986 book, "if I [were] going to look for Cooper, I would head for the Washougal."[58] The Washougal Valley and its surroundings have been searched by multiple private individuals and groups in subsequent years; to date, nothing directly traceable to the hijacking has been found.[6]

The wiki is so fouled up it is worthless.  All of the fouled up accounts of the case are what are used as the sources for wiki.  In general, Scott was not flying the plane.  We've had some indication he held the wheel a bit to feel the "oscillations," and I've seen something to the effect that he took the controls to land at Reno.  Himmelsback is as reliable as wiki.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 12:45:13 AM by hom »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #322 on: July 01, 2014, 08:00:05 AM »
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According to another person Bill Rataczak made this statement:
"We know where Cooper jumped. We just don't know where he landed."

I haven't found that quote yet, but here is one from Rataczak.

"During our descent into Reno, we made a P.A. to Cooper (if he was still there) that the stairs
needed to be raised for landing so they would not be damaged, which could prevent a subsequent takeoff'

And here:

“I agree with my good friend, FBI Agent Ralph Himmelsbach, who bird-dogged the Cooper case for
many years,” Rataczak says. “I don’t think he made it out alive. I think he’s down there in the blackberry
brambles someplace.”

Doesn't sound to me as if he, or anyone knows exactly where Cooper jumped, or they wouldn't have checked with
Cooper on the PA if they were aware he left the plane.

I think if you check back on posts by that other person you will find that the statement used to be that they knew when he jumped, not where he jumped, and that the "when" was when the pressure pulse occurred, NOT at 0xxxZ.  You won't find anywhere but "that other person" saying they knew where the HJ jumped.  I think they were confident, but not absolutely certain, that he had jumped at the time the pressure pulse occurred, whenever that was.


That was a copy/paste from a post made by Blevins. according to him that's what Rataczak said. I find it contradicts what Rataczak says at a conference....

I was pretty sure Scott didn't fly the plane after takeoff from SEA. what about his statement of the path being more to the east. is this also incorrect to what Scott said? or is there some truth in that statement?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 08:01:44 AM by shutter »
 

Offline hom

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #323 on: July 01, 2014, 08:22:02 PM »
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That was a copy/paste from a post made by Blevins. according to him that's what Rataczak said. I find it contradicts what Rataczak says at a conference....

I was pretty sure Scott didn't fly the plane after takeoff from SEA. what about his statement of the path being more to the east. is this also incorrect to what Scott said? or is there some truth in that statement?

Blevins' statement is a "morphing" of what he had posted before to the effect that "they" knew when the HJ jumped.  I think the Scott saying the path would have been more to the east is ONLY an allegation by Himmelsbach.  No corroboration.  Scott can't be asked about it except by a medium.  It's not in Scott's public statements of record.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 08:24:15 PM by hom »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #324 on: July 01, 2014, 08:26:11 PM »
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That was a copy/paste from a post made by Blevins. according to him that's what Rataczak said. I find it contradicts what Rataczak says at a conference....

I was pretty sure Scott didn't fly the plane after takeoff from SEA. what about his statement of the path being more to the east. is this also incorrect to what Scott said? or is there some truth in that statement?

Blevins' statement is a "morphing" of what he had posted before to the effect that "they" knew when the HJ jumped.  I think the Scott saying the path would have been more to the east is ONLY an allegation by Himmelsbach.  No corroboration.  Scott can't be asked about it except by a medium.  It's not in Scott's public statements of record.


makes sense. I can't remember where I seen it. isn't there some documentation from Scott? good luck trying to find a medium who couldn't easily find this subject lol.

I'm getting a feeling of floating...thump....end of session.....
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 08:27:59 PM by shutter »
 

Offline hom

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #325 on: July 02, 2014, 02:48:09 AM »
Here's an article re. Scott on the occasion of his death.  Note what his wife said he said about public info concerning the hijacking.  The presentation to the aero club is also available online.

'D.B. Cooper' pilot dies; William Scott never talked much about 1971 skyjacking
March 15, 2001
By Susan Gilmore
Seattle Times staff reporter
 
For 30 years, William "Scotty" Scott said little about the world's most famous skyjacking,
shunning assorted authors and movie producers who came knocking at his door.

Mr. Scott died of prostate cancer Sunday at his home in Green Valley, Ariz., taking to the
grave much of what he knew about that fateful night, said his wife, Frances.  "When he came
home that night," she said, "he told his family about it, and that was the end of it. He
was a very quiet man. Very reserved."

Only in recent years had he begun to talk about the skyjacking that perplexed the FBI and
continues to rivet those who think Cooper may have survived the jump of 10,000 feet into
the blackness of a storm over Southwest Washington.

Her husband was convinced Cooper died in the leap, said Frances Scott. "He felt he jumped
into Lake Merwin (Cowlitz County) and got tangled up in dead trees and died," she said.

On the 25th anniversary of the heist, Mr. Scott spoke to a local pilots club.

Mr. Scott never saw Cooper. "He was intent on flying the plane and being able to get people
out of there alive and save the aircraft for Northwest," said his widow.  Little by little,
she said, her husband had begun to talk about it the past few years. "It was good for him,"
she said. "In later years, he'd get mad at authors. Scotty would say, 'No, that's not the
way it happened.' They weren't there; he was."
 

Offline MarkBennett

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #326 on: July 02, 2014, 10:06:57 AM »
I met Susan Gilmore (the Seattle Times reporter on this article) a few years ago right before she retired.  Evidently, she did a lot of reporting on little DB Cooper stories over the years.  She said Jerry Thomas would call fairly frequently and check in.  It's too bad I don't work there any more and she doesn't.   I might have been able to do some research and make it look like I was working.  :)
 

georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #327 on: July 03, 2014, 03:35:50 AM »
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According to another person Bill Rataczak made this statement:
"We know where Cooper jumped. We just don't know where he landed."

I haven't found that quote yet, but here is one from Rataczak.

"During our descent into Reno, we made a P.A. to Cooper (if he was still there) that the stairs
needed to be raised for landing so they would not be damaged, which could prevent a subsequent takeoff'

And here:

“I agree with my good friend, FBI Agent Ralph Himmelsbach, who bird-dogged the Cooper case for
many years,” Rataczak says. “I don’t think he made it out alive. I think he’s down there in the blackberry
brambles someplace.”

Doesn't sound to me as if he, or anyone knows exactly where Cooper jumped, or they wouldn't have checked with
Cooper on the PA if they were aware he left the plane.

I think if you check back on posts by that other person you will find that the statement used to be that they knew when he jumped, not where he jumped, and that the "when" was when the pressure pulse occurred, NOT at 0xxxZ.  You won't find anywhere but "that other person" saying they knew where the HJ jumped.  I think they were confident, but not absolutely certain, that he had jumped at the time the pressure pulse occurred, whenever that was.

the other person cherry picks (if he can find something) what fits his needs. That has been his modus since he first surfaced. It's almost guaranteed that what he picks and publishes is quoted out of context and may have even been changed! His quoting Kitt is a perfect example of that and Kitt was not happy about it. 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 03:39:01 AM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #328 on: July 03, 2014, 03:43:10 AM »
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According to another person Bill Rataczak made this statement:
"We know where Cooper jumped. We just don't know where he landed."

I haven't found that quote yet, but here is one from Rataczak.

"During our descent into Reno, we made a P.A. to Cooper (if he was still there) that the stairs
needed to be raised for landing so they would not be damaged, which could prevent a subsequent takeoff'

And here:

“I agree with my good friend, FBI Agent Ralph Himmelsbach, who bird-dogged the Cooper case for
many years,” Rataczak says. “I don’t think he made it out alive. I think he’s down there in the blackberry
brambles someplace.”

Doesn't sound to me as if he, or anyone knows exactly where Cooper jumped, or they wouldn't have checked with
Cooper on the PA if they were aware he left the plane.

I think if you check back on posts by that other person you will find that the statement used to be that they knew when he jumped, not where he jumped, and that the "when" was when the pressure pulse occurred, NOT at 0xxxZ.  You won't find anywhere but "that other person" saying they knew where the HJ jumped.  I think they were confident, but not absolutely certain, that he had jumped at the time the pressure pulse occurred, whenever that was.


That was a copy/paste from a post made by Blevins. according to him that's what Rataczak said. I find it contradicts what Rataczak says at a conference....

I was pretty sure Scott didn't fly the plane after takeoff from SEA. what about his statement of the path being more to the east. is this also incorrect to what Scott said? or is there some truth in that statement?

It contradicts everyone's testimony! It contradicts Anderson's testimony for sure!

Blevins is just a troll. Period. You literally cannot take anything he says as factual. Everyone including Gray that has had any personal experience with him says that!

Anderson's testimony is specific and detailed. Not only did they not know exactly where they were when he jumped, they weren't even sure he had jumped until Scott finally went back (against orders) and checked and quoting: "It appears our friend has left us" (they are near Reno)!

Anderson says they "discussed" the pulse/bump/oscillations for some minutes and on the basis of that discussion Rataczak then reported it ... after the fact! Their position for where the bump occurred was an ESTIMATE! Their time when they thought he (might have) jumped was an ESTIMATE!

I'm not sure where RMB got the quote he is pounding the boards with - some video of Rataczak? In Gray's book? He once said where the quote could be found but I forget where he stated, because frankly I don;t care, because there are plenty of Rataczak quotes which have authenticity and are backed up by other's people's testimony to go on... without relying on anything this Blevins says. (laugh) 

Frankly folks: we are too good to be derailed by such nonsense, ie Blevins-speak.

If this posts I am having all kinds of problems keeping this website up and going tonight! Delays specialnotices, etc etc etc ... lets see if this posts at all...

 

 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 03:55:54 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #329 on: July 04, 2014, 11:19:43 AM »
The quote itself "We know where Cooper jumped. We just don't know where he landed" doesn't show up anywhere. if he claims Rataczak said this in an email, it contradicts what he has said in the past. ” Rataczak says. “I don’t think he made it out alive. I think he’s down there in the blackberry brambles someplace.”

He also says this:

There’s been a lot of talk, some recently, about former purser Ken Christiansen being D. B. Cooper.
He was fully vetted by the F.B.I., who determined he was not a person of interest.