You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I find it interesting that U&R are ignoring the Tosaw legacy. Tosaw wasnt an engineer and he didn't do math calcs personally, so far as I know, but he hired people who did! That's a fact. He used engineers in several of his well known projects. He consulted with engineers in his Cooper work. He definitely interviewed Scott and Rataczak, several times. He filed a number of FOI's to get govt records - in one of his cases he filed against the US Navy and won records, including the log of a US destroyer. He regularly talked with FBI agents. His calls to the Portland office during one phase of his work was so intense, Portland assigned an agent to take his calls! Several of the people who worked for him said they thought Tosaw was an FBI agent working on the case. He had copies of official documents, and he had a large folded copy of the FBI search (color white), similar people say to the large search maps seen in photos of offcials who were looking for Cooper in 1972.

So far as I know Tosaw never claimed Cooper had landed at Tena Bar. But he did believe Cooper had landed in the Columbia upstream of Caterpillar Island. Tosaw said the FBI's mistake was in the timing and position of where Copper bailed. H never questioned the claimed flight path and he was in a position to do so had he ever uncovered evidence that the flight path was wrong. Tosaw was usually very thorough in the technical side of his research, for cases he handled. He always availed himself of the latest technology available in his searches.

Its worth considering.   

As I have mentioned on a number of occasions, Tosaw's work and interest in the Tina Bar area was definitely considered.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Is there a falsifiable standard to this Western Flight Path? Without it, where does this discussion get us?

Please explain what you would consider to be a falsifiable standard here.

As Georger has stated above, he has known for years (10+ years?) that Captain Scott had told people that he bypassed Portland on the west side and probably flown over Tina Bar.  This same information has come from a number of people other than the ones that Georger cited.

The Malay to Canby bypass only saves about 2 or 3 Nautical Miles in distance flown and at a ground speed of 3 nautical miles per minute this means about 40 seconds to 1 minute in time.  And this time is not large enough to show up in the available data.

Time wise, George Harrison's notes describe the airliner as being "23 DME Nautical Miles" from the Portland VORTAC (now named the Battleground VORTAC) and south of Portland at 8:18 PM PST.  This puts the airliner on the west edge of V-23 if it flew direct from Malay to Canby.  And this also means that the airliner would have a VERY difficult time getting to that point if it was well north of the Portland VORTAC (according to some radar claims) at the claimed 8:13 jump time (which is claimed by some) and stayed on V-23 and the V-23 centerline (as claimed by some).

Three FOIA actions involving the FBI/DOJ/FAA were filed in an attempt to get the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts for the flight south from Seattle.  Two of those actions went directly through my US Congressman's Office and the FBI's Congressional Liaison Office.  The end result was two pieces of paper, which are posted on this site, and which did not provide any useful information related to the flight path.  It should be noted that the information we were seeking was transmitted over regular air traffic control frequencies and could be heard by anyone with a VHF radio receiver.  And quite a few people reportedly did listen in.

The communications between the airliner and NWA were conducted over the ARINC radio system to ARINC ground stations.  From these ground stations, the information to be passed to NWA would be typed into a teletype and then passed over a ground network to the appropriate NWA station.  In the hijacking, a voice communication link was also established so that NWA personnel and the airliner could talk to each other.  The ARINC personnel also sent a teletype version of those conversation over the ground link.  Normally for short conversations it took about two minutes from the time a voice communication was made until ARINC had a teletype version transmitted.  In the case of the "23 DME" transmission, it took four minutes which means that this was probably a longer conversation, other things being equal.

ARINC is a commercial subscription service to the airline industry.  Consequently, I did not ask for their transcripts although some were included in the "FBI Notes" and at other places.  I only asked for the transcripts of the public transmissions that were made over the Federal Air Traffic Control system.

All of the above has been discussed in greater detail over the last several years.

Any suggestions?       


 

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Is there a falsifiable standard to this Western Flight Path? Without it, where does this discussion get us?

Please explain what you would consider to be a falsifiable standard here.

As Georger has stated above, he has known for years (10+ years?) that Captain Scott had told people that he bypassed Portland on the west side and probably flown over Tina Bar.  This same information has come from a number of people other than the ones that Georger cited.

The Malay to Canby bypass only saves about 2 or 3 Nautical Miles in distance flown and at a ground speed of 3 nautical miles per minute this means about 40 seconds to 1 minute in time.  And this time is not large enough to show up in the available data.

Time wise, George Harrison's notes describe the airliner as being "23 DME Nautical Miles" from the Portland VORTAC (now named the Battleground VORTAC) and south of Portland at 8:18 PM PST.  This puts the airliner on the west edge of V-23 if it flew direct from Malay to Canby.  And this also means that the airliner would have a VERY difficult time getting to that point if it was well north of the Portland VORTAC (according to some radar claims) at the claimed 8:13 jump time (which is claimed by some) and stayed on V-23 and the V-23 centerline (as claimed by some).

Three FOIA actions involving the FBI/DOJ/FAA were filed in an attempt to get the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts for the flight south from Seattle.  Two of those actions went directly through my US Congressman's Office and the FBI's Congressional Liaison Office.  The end result was two pieces of paper, which are posted on this site, and which did not provide any useful information related to the flight path.  It should be noted that the information we were seeking was transmitted over regular air traffic control frequencies and could be heard by anyone with a VHF radio receiver.  And quite a few people reportedly did listen in.

The communications between the airliner and NWA were conducted over the ARINC radio system to ARINC ground stations.  From these ground stations, the information to be passed to NWA would be typed into a teletype and then passed over a ground network to the appropriate NWA station.  In the hijacking, a voice communication link was also established so that NWA personnel and the airliner could talk to each other.  The ARINC personnel also sent a teletype version of those conversation over the ground link.  Normally for short conversations it took about two minutes from the time a voice communication was made until ARINC had a teletype version transmitted.  In the case of the "23 DME" transmission, it took four minutes which means that this was probably a longer conversation, other things being equal.

ARINC is a commercial subscription service to the airline industry.  Consequently, I did not ask for their transcripts although some were included in the "FBI Notes" and at other places.  I only asked for the transcripts of the public transmissions that were made over the Federal Air Traffic Control system.

All of the above has been discussed in greater detail over the last several years.

Any suggestions?