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Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 983903 times)

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2595 on: August 17, 2019, 01:44:26 AM »
This is precisely what Scott told Himmelsbach according to a couple of accounts. Specifically, that he flew west of downtown Portland and that he believes they flew about 10 miles west of the FBI Flight Path. Additionally, Ammerman stated that he believes the jet passed west of downtown Portland between the 405 and Beaverton--this while traveling on heading of 160 (due south). Also, consider that Ammerman was never interviewed by the FBI.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 01:45:49 AM by EU »
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2596 on: August 17, 2019, 01:50:03 AM »
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This is precisely what Scott told Himmelsbach according to a couple of accounts. Specifically, that he flew west of downtown Portland and that he believes they flew about 10 miles west of the FBI Flight Path. Additionally, Ammerman stated that he believes the jet passed west of downtown Portland between the 405 and Beaverton--this while traveling on heading of 160 (due south).

My whole point in asking the question about the date that the switch was made from a 10 Statute Mile width to an 8 Nautical Mile width is that is the earliest date that the "FBI map" could have been made.  And I think that date was sometime in the late 1970s or maybe even 1980s.

And if I am correct, then the "FBI map" that we are now looking at COULD NOT be the original map that was prepared immediately after the hijacking.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 02:10:33 AM by Robert99 »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2597 on: August 17, 2019, 11:07:29 AM »
What is the 405?

You must keep in mind while trying to move the path west that the DME miles increase regardless to what anyone said to anyone after the fact.

Robert, are you saying the sectional map looks out of date for 71?
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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2598 on: August 17, 2019, 11:28:52 AM »
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What is the 405?

You must keep in mind while trying to move the path west that the DME miles increase regardless to what anyone said to anyone after the fact.

Robert, are you saying the sectional map looks out of date for 71?

The 405 is one of the freeways in downtown Portland.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2599 on: August 17, 2019, 11:40:39 AM »
I see it now. just woke up and not functioning correctly yet. I looked all over for it and it was right there  :rofl:
Are you saying 160 degree's would be the path from the Columbia southward? I don't believe the 20 degree magnetic change.
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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2600 on: August 17, 2019, 11:50:57 AM »
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I see it now. just woke up and not functioning correctly yet. I looked all over for it and it was right there  :rofl:
Are you saying 160 degree's would be the path from the Columbia southward? I don't believe the 20 degree magnetic change.

No, I'm saying he made the turn around Toledo and headed 148 degrees--which is parallel to V23--a couple miles west of the centerline because of the rounded turn at Toledo. Then around Kelso he headed 160 and kept that heading until he reached centerline V23 near Canby. He then headed 175 toward Eugene.

These headings factor in the 20 degree adjustment.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2601 on: August 17, 2019, 11:51:09 AM »
Here is a 160 degree path around the Malay intersection on my simulator..

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2602 on: August 17, 2019, 12:04:42 PM »
Here is a sectional around Kelso...

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The gauges on the right are inaccurate since I place the plane in that position while the simulator is paused.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 12:08:19 PM by Shutter »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2603 on: August 17, 2019, 12:11:14 PM »
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I see it now. just woke up and not functioning correctly yet. I looked all over for it and it was right there  :rofl:
Are you saying 160 degree's would be the path from the Columbia southward? I don't believe the 20 degree magnetic change.

No, I'm saying he made the turn around Toledo and headed 148 degrees--which is parallel to V23--a couple miles west of the centerline because of the rounded turn at Toledo. Then around Kelso he headed 160 and kept that heading until he reached centerline V23 near Canby. He then headed 175 toward Eugene.

These headings factor in the 20 degree adjustment.

That's a pretty tight S turn...
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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2604 on: August 17, 2019, 12:13:21 PM »
I'm not sure what you mean by S turn.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2605 on: August 17, 2019, 12:16:48 PM »
I'll have to get the degree's but the plane does an S turn even with the original path. it turns left and the a turn right to follow V23..

When I fully wake up  :rofl: I will make a short video of the flight in that area. I only have a joystick hooked up at the moment. I moved my simulator computer to my living room where my projector screen is located.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 12:18:30 PM by Shutter »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2606 on: August 17, 2019, 12:22:31 PM »
A 727 doesn't turn on a dime. I believe while flying the original path I made the first turn at Toledo and not long after leveling I had to turn to line up with V23. now I'm going to have to narrow down the distance turning before V23 and not after...

Things look a little different in flight vs looking at the map....
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 12:26:43 PM by Shutter »
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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2607 on: August 17, 2019, 12:29:13 PM »
I still don't understand.

I'm saying that 305 makes the turn at Toledo and ends up west of the V23 centerline as it heads 148. I'm quite certain it wasn't a standard rate turn therefore he would end up two or three miles west of centerline V23 once the turn around Toledo was complete. In fact, the FBI Flight Path actually has 305 making the turn and crossing over centerline V23 ending up east of centerline V23.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2608 on: August 17, 2019, 12:33:26 PM »
You already stated Ammerman said the plane turned at Toledo, no?
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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2609 on: August 17, 2019, 12:38:28 PM »
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You already stated Ammerman said the plane turned at Toledo, no?

I believe Ammerman used both terms, Toledo and Maylay. I believe a map you have shows the jet making the turn around the airport.
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