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The Importance of F-106 Interdiction - was National Security:

Ulis can scoff all he wants. The fact remains (a) the Cooper Hijacking raised national security issues resulting in (b) a response and interdiction of the hijacked plane by USAF F-106's whose primary mission was to protect US Security assets ... and everyone including the pilots flying Flight 305 were aware of the need to stay within acceptable flight restrictions. They were NOT free to roam around the skies or do anything they wanted; and that is an understatement which could have resulted in dire consequences irrespective of the hijacker's threats and purported bomb!

Recent interviews with people involved make that clear. One such interview was recently done by Bruce Smith titled: Interview with a SAGE radar operator as investigations intensify in the DB Cooper Case - May 11, 2019. In this interview a member of the 1971 SAGE team David Morgan, who was stationed at McChord Air Base in Tacoma, WA comments specifically as follows:

"Morgan gave me an interesting military perspective on the Cooper skyjacking. He and many others at McChord were concerned that Cooper might use the airplane as a weapon and fly it into a military installation, or a nuclear reactor, such as the Hanford reactor and its supply of plutonium. Morgan was quite passionate about this possibility, (from a military perspective) and acknowledged it presaged by thirty years the fears now borne by 9-11. In fact, he indicated that the primary purpose of the pursuit planes, the so-called “alert birds,” was to shoot down Cooper and his airplane if he strayed too close to a military installation, or gave indications that he might crash the aircraft into a critical civilian (or military) site."

With that perspective in mind, controller Cliff Ammerman and the others involved, had an important task on their hands. A very real mission with two F-106's primed, loaded, and ready should the need arise. It was important to control and direct everyone to a successful non-military outcome.

Under these conditions knowing where 305 was and what it was doing, was of critical importance.

Likewise knowing that the hijacker was still on board, or not, and what the hijacker was doing, or not doing, was of equal importance.

Ammerman told me that he was never personally involved in any discussions about whether the hijacker was still on board or not, but that others were so involved. Cliff said that had the need developed he would have been given any information necessary to the performance of his duties. At 7:54 pm we have this exchange: MSP: As soon as reasonably sure the man has left the quicker you can land. - 305: Roger. Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him and thinks he will attempt a jump.  - MSP: Roger. After leaving this freq go to 131.8 we have direct phone patch there (to Company and FBI).
   
Can we assume the F-106s broke off with 305 after the threat had diminished or was over - according to someone's estimate as the plane left Portland airspace heading south toward Eugene. The F-106's could have been refueled in the air, or joined by other tactical fighters but that did not happen either. The perceived mission complete the F-106's were withdrawn and allowed to leave near Eugene, according to controller Ammerman. Can we assume somebody thought the air threat to national security was over - as appraised by others? From Eugene south no tactically armed mission escorted 305. What was the basis of that decision?

Georger, this is bullshit.  I was doing a lot of riding the airlines before the Cooper hijacking, after the Cooper hijacking, and during the very evening of the Cooper hijacking.  The only thing unusual about the Cooper hijacking was that it was apparently the first one in the USA for money and that involved a parachute exit.

Usually in 1971 it was just the young Black fellows who were in the line with you who got called out for a check to see if they wanted to go to Cuba or Africa.  With the Cooper hijacking, the airlines realized that they needed to start checking some white people as well.

The primary purpose of the F-106s and other such aircraft was to shoot down incoming Russian aircraft.  That is why they were based primarily in costal and border areas.  And also why they had reserved high altitude climb corridors.  These aircraft were operative long before hijacking became a fashion.

Finally, I don't think the FBI was talking directly to the airliner over the ARINC frequency.  They might have been relaying information through NWA.

Since my post centeres on the Bruce Smith 'David Morgan' feedback, then you are saying they are full of bullshit.

As usual, you are the smartest guy in the room. Maybe the only guy in the room. 

You basically are saying there was no military action in the Cooper case that matters. No military input in the Cooper case, that shaped the case. . . . . . the Bruce Smith interview is bullshit ........ and only you can tell the world what to think and how to think about the DB Cooper case.

And of course, that the USAF, FAA restrictions, and F-106s had no affect whatever on the route 305 flew.

Why didn't authorities just call you up and put you in charge of everything?  Why are you doing FOIA requests at a high level while also saying you already know everything and none of it matters! Are you are Elvis opting for a management position in the DB Cooper case? Maybe the Smithsonian will hire you and Harvard graduate Ulis ? Im just reaching for anything to say to The Manager of Avionics in the DB Cooper case! Teach us, Oh Master! 

Well if the "authorities" had called me up, they would have not been looking for Cooper 20 miles northeast of Portland.  And the Cooper hijacking would have probably been solved before the end of 1971 - or the summer of 1972 at the absolute latest.  And the FBI would never have been permitted to sit on the Seattle ATC transcripts.

Are you really serious ?  You’re the same guy that couldn’t figure out how to find REI in downtown Portland even though you were not more than a mile away from it ! You only think you know it all !

Yes, I am serious.  And I did find REI in downtown Portland.

Portland looks like it was assembled from five different towns and they all kept their same street addresses.  When looking for a street address that is suppose to be in the northeast corner of a city, I would not normally expect to find it in the southwest part of the same city.  But I did find it and Mensa can relax.

I don't know how the Portland addresses make sense to you, but maybe there is something in your local water that explains it.

First off Try reading directions correctly. REI is clearly listed in Portland at 1405 N.W. Johnson ! There’s a clue there that should quickly tell you that it is Not Located in the N.E Corner Of Portland ! Have you figured out the clue yet ? I will solve it for you ! The W means WEST ! You are now going to tell us that you also know everything about the flight plan BUT you haven’t YET figured out what N.W stands for. What college taught you that E means West !
Carry on with your fantasies! BTW You never did find REI in S. W. Portland! You will find in just exactly as it’s listed. It’s in Northwest Portland as anyone with any kind of direction would immediately recognize ! Johnson is well North of Burnside which divides Portland into North or South. Johnson is also West of the Willamette river. I’m sorry you finally did find REI after getting totally lost in one of the easiest cities to get around in that I’ve ever seen. Now go on telling us how you know exactly where Cooper landed !

First off Try reading directions correctly. REI is clearly listed in Portland at 1405 N.W. Johnson ! There’s a clue there that should quickly tell you that it is Not Located in the N.E Corner Of Portland ! Have you figured out the clue yet ? I will solve it for you ! The W means WEST ! You are now going to tell us that you also know everything about the flight plan BUT you haven’t YET figured out what N.W stands for. What college taught you that E means West !
Carry on with your fantasies! BTW You never did find REI in S. W. Portland! You will find in just exactly as it’s listed. It’s in Northwest Portland as anyone with any kind of direction would immediately recognize ! Johnson is well North of Burnside which divides Portland into North or South. Johnson is also West of the Willamette river. I’m sorry you finally did find REI after getting totally lost in one of the easiest cities to get around in that I’ve ever seen. Now go on telling us how you know exactly where Cooper landed !

Actually, I learned what N-S-E-W means as a cub scout a couple of hundred miles northeast of Portland.

Unfortunately, I no longer have the map in question.  I left all of my maps of the Portland/Vancouver area with Meyer Louie the last time I was in Portland.  REI may be listed as being on NW of something but it is still SW of the urban area.

Since you have apparently resided in Portland for most of your life, the street situation is probably ingrained in your DNA.  And you would undoubtedly be confused by normal street arrangements.

I find New York City and Los Angeles streets easier to navigate than Portlands.

Sorry.

By the way, in researching my papers for my above reply, I saw a little tidbit from my notes on Capt. Tom Bohan and related "flight path" stuff. There, I had jotted down that in 1980 a journalist by the name of David Krajicek wrote that "Captain William Scott revealed to Ralph Himmelsbach that Flight 305 was flying ten miles further west than the FBI assumed."

Not sure where I originally found that piece of information.

By the way, in researching my papers for my above reply, I saw a little tidbit from my notes on Capt. Tom Bohan and related "flight path" stuff. There, I had jotted down that in 1980 a journalist by the name of David Krajicek wrote that "Captain William Scott revealed to Ralph Himmelsbach that Flight 305 was flying ten miles further west than the FBI assumed."

Not sure where I originally found that piece of information.

You sure he wasnt confusing west with east?  After-thoughts drive people crazy. I will bet money the Air Force and F-106's knew where in hell he was; or they were!!   Somebody should have informed Scott - officially!! - where he was!

Or, maybe Scott actually told Himms he was at a Cubs game in Chicago - the whole time! Didn't all of the pilots have stunt doubles? 

Does Geoff Gray have a stunt double? 

Although I do it as well the flight path has nothing to do with the FBI. It was made by the Air Force. it's being preserved as evidence by the FBI.

It's amazing how it appears that V23 was some sort of secret path. why would the pilots say they were in area's such as Ariel or Pigeon Springs. wouldn't it be easier to tell them they cut the area out of the flight. the 20 degree shift was interesting. doesn't it basically affect runways more than anything? VOR's move? the flew a straight line and failed to tell anyone? it's documented that they were locked onto BTG but nothing about Eugene. more secrets? if they were flying VOR to VOR how would they not know where they were? it just seems extremely easy for the crew to say they flew from Seattle to Toledo and basically straight down to Eugene via VOR?

VORs (radio beacons that are used for navigation) broadcast their “radial” information in magnetic degrees so that you can fly a magnetic heading to or from a VOR. according to some the plane was locked on two VOR's and yet were 20 degree's off course? no charts or updates of magnetic changes? I see one showing as much as 8 degree's from ground level between Quincy and Longview.

Earth's magnetic field is constantly changing and while large-scale changes, such as a complete reversal of the magnetic field, happen over several thousand years, smaller changes over shorter periods of time affect navigation, including for aviation. This shifting magnetic field affects airports and airline operations, including alphanumeric airport runway names, which indicate headings—crucial information for pilots.

The Fairbanks International Airport renamed runway 1L-19R to 2L-20R in 2009, for example, when magnetic north shifted enough to mandate a change. And the airport operators know—from NOAA’s World Magnetic Model and other sources—that they'll likely need to update the name again in 2033

The flight data recorder wouldn't tell much? I think that statement would fit better in this time period. the only time they need a FDR today is for the data minutes before a crash and not so much for tracking. GPS rules today. I would tend to believe with limited tools in 1971 they used what ever they could.

Then we have statements from radar operators basically right in front of 305. so close it should over rule further radar returns from Seattle. how many times have we been told about the red dots between Malay and the Lewis river being weak returns. the same R5 would of seen? It also appears that the hijacking was an incident with the FAA and a national security risk with the military. who would track it out of the two?

Why would radar operators make these statements right on top of the flight and be false and yet the statements from an operator further away (radar returns) be 100% accurate or enough to prove the path is incorrect? I see more documented evidence that some claim doesn't exist and very limited 48 year old statements suggesting an alternate path? the money and the placard are now facts of a westerly flight path while radar signals stating different are not proof of anything? one is assumption and the radar is what, an amateur point of view?

The placard. early reports are conflicting like everything else to believing it might not of come from 305. several things bother me. the first is the fact of the stairs locked shortly after landing at Reno. it's my understanding pulling the emergency handle damages the stairs. reading the transcripts show there were no sparks so the stairs were not far enough down. second, the inside of the stairs were described in a 302 during discussion surrounding the ability to hide inside the stairwell. they only describe one control handle to raise and lower the stairs. next, we have conflicting reports of the placard missing two days later then over a month later after the testing. no mention of a small hole in the wall that should of been noticed where Cooper removed the panel to pull the emergency handle. the panel already has directions on it and the placard found would of had two holes in it so the panel could be pulled out. plus, the placard is the wrong configuration to fit. the placard itself appears to be missing from evidence. Tom says he never seen it. this could lead one to believe it was no longer considered evidence. Cowlitz county has zero records of the event.

Transcripts: 305 "see any sparks coming off the tail at any time on ah touchdown."
Tower: "Negative, not at all" 
Sparks were only seen during taxi speeds which in under 30 knots...

Learning where the placard actually goes is another challenge. companies selling Boeing placards will not assume anything. they go directly by part numbers only. contacting Boeing will also fail since they state on there websites they only answer questions surrounding there subjects on there websites.

Now, I clearly see evidence supporting the known flight path. how could you say differently? the totality is confusing but does give indications to where they were. it could be inaccurate but radar data is hard to challenge being so close to 305. we have more conflictions now with the pilots. Scott claims 10 miles west, and then east of Woodland while Rat has made claims further east of V23. things have also changed over time which is clearly expected with the human mind.

It will be cheaper to rebuild the site at a different domain.

Although I do it as well the flight path has nothing to do with the FBI. It was made by the Air Force. it's being preserved as evidence by the FBI.

It's amazing how it appears that V23 was some sort of secret path. why would the pilots say they were in area's such as Ariel or Pigeon Springs. wouldn't it be easier to tell them they cut the area out of the flight. the 20 degree shift was interesting. doesn't it basically affect runways more than anything? VOR's move? the flew a straight line and failed to tell anyone? it's documented that they were locked onto BTG but nothing about Eugene. more secrets? if they were flying VOR to VOR how would they not know where they were? it just seems extremely easy for the crew to say they flew from Seattle to Toledo and basically straight down to Eugene via VOR?

VORs (radio beacons that are used for navigation) broadcast their “radial” information in magnetic degrees so that you can fly a magnetic heading to or from a VOR. according to some the plane was locked on two VOR's and yet were 20 degree's off course? no charts or updates of magnetic changes? I see one showing as much as 8 degree's from ground level between Quincy and Longview.

Earth's magnetic field is constantly changing and while large-scale changes, such as a complete reversal of the magnetic field, happen over several thousand years, smaller changes over shorter periods of time affect navigation, including for aviation. This shifting magnetic field affects airports and airline operations, including alphanumeric airport runway names, which indicate headings—crucial information for pilots.

The Fairbanks International Airport renamed runway 1L-19R to 2L-20R in 2009, for example, when magnetic north shifted enough to mandate a change. And the airport operators know—from NOAA’s World Magnetic Model and other sources—that they'll likely need to update the name again in 2033

The flight data recorder wouldn't tell much? I think that statement would fit better in this time period. the only time they need a FDR today is for the data minutes before a crash and not so much for tracking. GPS rules today. I would tend to believe with limited tools in 1971 they used what ever they could.

Then we have statements from radar operators basically right in front of 305. so close it should over rule further radar returns from Seattle. how many times have we been told about the red dots between Malay and the Lewis river being weak returns. the same R5 would of seen? It also appears that the hijacking was an incident with the FAA and a national security risk with the military. who would track it out of the two?

Why would radar operators make these statements right on top of the flight and be false and yet the statements from an operator further away (radar returns) be 100% accurate or enough to prove the path is incorrect? I see more documented evidence that some claim doesn't exist and very limited 48 year old statements suggesting an alternate path? the money and the placard are now facts of a westerly flight path while radar signals stating different are not proof of anything? one is assumption and the radar is what, an amateur point of view?

The placard. early reports are conflicting like everything else to believing it might not of come from 305. several things bother me. the first is the fact of the stairs locked shortly after landing at Reno. it's my understanding pulling the emergency handle damages the stairs. reading the transcripts show there were no sparks so the stairs were not far enough down. second, the inside of the stairs were described in a 302 during discussion surrounding the ability to hide inside the stairwell. they only describe one control handle to raise and lower the stairs. next, we have conflicting reports of the placard missing two days later then over a month later after the testing. no mention of a small hole in the wall that should of been noticed where Cooper removed the panel to pull the emergency handle. the panel already has directions on it and the placard found would of had two holes in it so the panel could be pulled out. plus, the placard is the wrong configuration to fit. the placard itself appears to be missing from evidence. Tom says he never seen it. this could lead one to believe it was no longer considered evidence. Cowlitz county has zero records of the event.

Transcripts: 305 "see any sparks coming off the tail at any time on ah touchdown."
Tower: "Negative, not at all" 
Sparks were only seen during taxi speeds which in under 30 knots...

Learning where the placard actually goes is another challenge. companies selling Boeing placards will not assume anything. they go directly by part numbers only. contacting Boeing will also fail since they state on there websites they only answer questions surrounding there subjects on there websites.

Now, I clearly see evidence supporting the known flight path. how could you say differently? the totality is confusing but does give indications to where they were. it could be inaccurate but radar data is hard to challenge being so close to 305. we have more conflictions now with the pilots. Scott claims 10 miles west, and then east of Woodland while Rat has made claims further east of V23. things have also changed over time which is clearly expected with the human mind.

agree- the major debate has always been where Cooper bailed, not the flight path.

I think Georger is explaining the controversy where he bailed along the flight path. below Lake Merwin, Ochards etc.

I think the point is clear once again looking at the totality of events surrounding the jump time. a progression can be seen based on new evidence coming to light while plotting the LZ. first it appears to be above Ariel and then possibly as far as the Columbia river. this could only conclude they never really had a positive location vs an educated guess based on pilot statements, radar data, FDR, Air Force and operator's at Portland PDX, according to Tom Kaye. even ham operator's had input. we still don't have all the data. I think the challenge was more of where and when he jumped vs finding the general location of the plane.

Radar operator's (ATC) are far from stupid human beings. to believe Seattle seen a plane 10 miles west of where Portland seen the plane leads one to believe all planes were in extreme danger under these conditions and control. we do read about collisions near airports but those typically have multiple planes in one area.