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OK. just read 2476 ...

"I stated to him that based upon his information it appears that 305 could have flown right over Woodland and asked him if this sounded accurate. He stated, "yes that's possible."

I see that you cannot come up with me stating "Cliff has essentially put the airliner right back on a line between the Malay and Canby Intersections when he said it passed east of Beaverton."

...and what you did come up with is "I stated to him that based upon his information it appears that 305 could have flown right over Woodland and asked him if this sounded accurate. He stated, "yes that's possible."

That quote is 100% accurate. If it weren't accurate I wouldn't have said it was accurate.

Stop playing games GEORGER, against me you will always lose.

Ciao!

Georger, I am the one who made the statement about the east of Beaverton remark.  Surely you could see that from the post where I made that statement.  So stop playing games and stick to facts. 

Actually, I will contact Ammerman in a few days and ask him if he'd be interested in making a presentation at this year's CooperCon. I think that would be terrific and give people in attendance the opportunity to ask questions and actually speak with someone who was there. I think we need to take advantage of these first-hand accounts while we can. Needless to say I will let you know if he accepts my offer once I speak with him.

Okay, let's have some fun.

I plotted a flight path on Google Maps based upon what my understanding of what Ammerman described to me. There are a few very interesting things I noticed.

1) Factoring in a wide turn around Toledo and 305 then flying parallel to centerline V23 at about one mile west, I noticed that the point 305 would have made its 12 degree turn to the right putting it on a path of 160 is indeed east of Kelso.

2)  It just so happens that the point where the jet makes its turn to 160 also happens to be the point where 305 intercepts the drift line of the placard based upon the placard landing spot and the wind direction. In fact, the lines intercept 4.5 miles upwind from where the placard was found. Is it possible that the placard separated from the jet during/because the turn to 160?

3) This flight path puts 305 literally on top of the Tena Bar money find spot--actually 175 feet to the east.

4) This flight path is 8.7 SM miles west of centerline V23 at its greatest point of separation.

5) This flight path ends up at the Canby intersection. From that point the jet would have turned 15 degrees to 175 and flown to Eugene.

Food for thought.

Now Im really confused! Which is it, landed at Tina bar or Bachelor Island?


Eric Ulis on his way to Bachelor Island, where he believes D.B. Cooper landed nearly 50 years ago. (Douglas Perry/The Oregonian)

If he’s right, he says as he stands on Bachelor Island’s gritty beach, “the parachute is here. He wouldn’t have taken it with him. It’s here. I feel strongly something is here. We just have to find it., says Ulis”  (June 2019)

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Ulis is taking advantage of the ongoing local interest. On June 29-30, he will conduct a D.B. Cooper Boat Tour, taking the Cooper-curious out to Tena Bar, the Columbia River sandbar where more than $5,000 from the Cooper ransom was found in 1980. He says the sandbar’s location links up perfectly with the skyjacker coming down on Bachelor Island.

I can't keep up!

The Importance of F-106 Interdiction - was National Security:

Ulis can scoff all he wants. The fact remains (a) the Cooper Hijacking raised national security issues resulting in (b) a response and interdiction of the hijacked plane by USAF F-106's whose primary mission was to protect US Security assets ... and everyone including the pilots flying Flight 305 were aware of the need to stay within acceptable flight restrictions. They were NOT free to roam around the skies or do anything they wanted; and that is an understatement which could have resulted in dire consequences irrespective of the hijacker's threats and purported bomb!

Recent interviews with people involved make that clear. One such interview was recently done by Bruce Smith titled: Interview with a SAGE radar operator as investigations intensify in the DB Cooper Case - May 11, 2019. In this interview a member of the 1971 SAGE team David Morgan, who was stationed at McChord Air Base in Tacoma, WA comments specifically as follows:

"Morgan gave me an interesting military perspective on the Cooper skyjacking. He and many others at McChord were concerned that Cooper might use the airplane as a weapon and fly it into a military installation, or a nuclear reactor, such as the Hanford reactor and its supply of plutonium. Morgan was quite passionate about this possibility, (from a military perspective) and acknowledged it presaged by thirty years the fears now borne by 9-11. In fact, he indicated that the primary purpose of the pursuit planes, the so-called “alert birds,” was to shoot down Cooper and his airplane if he strayed too close to a military installation, or gave indications that he might crash the aircraft into a critical civilian (or military) site."

With that perspective in mind, controller Cliff Ammerman and the others involved, had an important task on their hands. A very real mission with two F-106's primed, loaded, and ready should the need arise. It was important to control and direct everyone to a successful non-military outcome.

Under these conditions knowing where 305 was and what it was doing, was of critical importance.

Likewise knowing that the hijacker was still on board, or not, and what the hijacker was doing, or not doing, was of equal importance.

Ammerman told me that he was never personally involved in any discussions about whether the hijacker was still on board or not, but that others were so involved. Cliff said that had the need developed he would have been given any information necessary to the performance of his duties. At 7:54 pm we have this exchange: MSP: As soon as reasonably sure the man has left the quicker you can land. - 305: Roger. Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him and thinks he will attempt a jump.  - MSP: Roger. After leaving this freq go to 131.8 we have direct phone patch there (to Company and FBI).
   
Can we assume the F-106s broke off with 305 after the threat had diminished or was over - according to someone's estimate as the plane left Portland airspace heading south toward Eugene. The F-106's could have been refueled in the air, or joined by other tactical fighters but that did not happen either. The perceived mission complete the F-106's were withdrawn and allowed to leave near Eugene, according to controller Ammerman. Can we assume somebody thought the air threat to national security was over - as appraised by others? From Eugene south no tactically armed mission escorted 305. What was the basis of that decision? 

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The Importance of F-106 Interdiction - was National Security:

Ulis can scoff all he wants. The fact remains (a) the Cooper Hijacking raised national security issues resulting in (b) a response and interdiction of the hijacked plane by USAF F-106's whose primary mission was to protect US Security assets ... and everyone including the pilots flying Flight 305 were aware of the need to stay within acceptable flight restrictions. They were NOT free to roam around the skies or do anything they wanted; and that is an understatement which could have resulted in dire consequences irrespective of the hijacker's threats and purported bomb!

Recent interviews with people involved make that clear. One such interview was recently done by Bruce Smith titled: Interview with a SAGE radar operator as investigations intensify in the DB Cooper Case - May 11, 2019. In this interview a member of the 1971 SAGE team David Morgan, who was stationed at McChord Air Base in Tacoma, WA comments specifically as follows:

"Morgan gave me an interesting military perspective on the Cooper skyjacking. He and many others at McChord were concerned that Cooper might use the airplane as a weapon and fly it into a military installation, or a nuclear reactor, such as the Hanford reactor and its supply of plutonium. Morgan was quite passionate about this possibility, (from a military perspective) and acknowledged it presaged by thirty years the fears now borne by 9-11. In fact, he indicated that the primary purpose of the pursuit planes, the so-called “alert birds,” was to shoot down Cooper and his airplane if he strayed too close to a military installation, or gave indications that he might crash the aircraft into a critical civilian (or military) site."

With that perspective in mind, controller Cliff Ammerman and the others involved, had an important task on their hands. A very real mission with two F-106's primed, loaded, and ready should the need arise. It was important to control and direct everyone to a successful non-military outcome.

Under these conditions knowing where 305 was and what it was doing, was of critical importance.

Likewise knowing that the hijacker was still on board, or not, and what the hijacker was doing, or not doing, was of equal importance.

Ammerman told me that he was never personally involved in any discussions about whether the hijacker was still on board or not, but that others were so involved. Cliff said that had the need developed he would have been given any information necessary to the performance of his duties. At 7:54 pm we have this exchange: MSP: As soon as reasonably sure the man has left the quicker you can land. - 305: Roger. Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him and thinks he will attempt a jump.  - MSP: Roger. After leaving this freq go to 131.8 we have direct phone patch there (to Company and FBI).
   
Can we assume the F-106s broke off with 305 after the threat had diminished or was over - according to someone's estimate as the plane left Portland airspace heading south toward Eugene. The F-106's could have been refueled in the air, or joined by other tactical fighters but that did not happen either. The perceived mission complete the F-106's were withdrawn and allowed to leave near Eugene, according to controller Ammerman. Can we assume somebody thought the air threat to national security was over - as appraised by others? From Eugene south no tactically armed mission escorted 305. What was the basis of that decision?

Georger, this is bullshit.  I was doing a lot of riding the airlines before the Cooper hijacking, after the Cooper hijacking, and during the very evening of the Cooper hijacking.  The only thing unusual about the Cooper hijacking was that it was apparently the first one in the USA for money and that involved a parachute exit.

Usually in 1971 it was just the young Black fellows who were in the line with you who got called out for a check to see if they wanted to go to Cuba or Africa.  With the Cooper hijacking, the airlines realized that they needed to start checking some white people as well.

The primary purpose of the F-106s and other such aircraft was to shoot down incoming Russian aircraft.  That is why they were based primarily in costal and border areas.  And also why they had reserved high altitude climb corridors.  These aircraft were operative long before hijacking became a fashion.

Finally, I don't think the FBI was talking directly to the airliner over the ARINC frequency.  They might have been relaying information through NWA.

Since my post centeres on the Bruce Smith 'David Morgan' feedback, then you are saying they are full of bullshit.

As usual, you are the smartest guy in the room. Maybe the only guy in the room. 

You basically are saying there was no military action in the Cooper case that matters. No military input in the Cooper case, that shaped the case. . . . . . the Bruce Smith interview is bullshit ........ and only you can tell the world what to think and how to think about the DB Cooper case.

And of course, that the USAF, FAA restrictions, and F-106s had no affect whatever on the route 305 flew.

Why didn't authorities just call you up and put you in charge of everything?  Why are you doing FOIA requests at a high level while also saying you already know everything and none of it matters! Are you are Elvis opting for a management position in the DB Cooper case? Maybe the Smithsonian will hire you and Harvard graduate Ulis ? Im just reaching for anything to say to The Manager of Avionics in the DB Cooper case! Teach us, Oh Master! 

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The Importance of F-106 Interdiction - was National Security:

Ulis can scoff all he wants. The fact remains (a) the Cooper Hijacking raised national security issues resulting in (b) a response and interdiction of the hijacked plane by USAF F-106's whose primary mission was to protect US Security assets ... and everyone including the pilots flying Flight 305 were aware of the need to stay within acceptable flight restrictions. They were NOT free to roam around the skies or do anything they wanted; and that is an understatement which could have resulted in dire consequences irrespective of the hijacker's threats and purported bomb!

Recent interviews with people involved make that clear. One such interview was recently done by Bruce Smith titled: Interview with a SAGE radar operator as investigations intensify in the DB Cooper Case - May 11, 2019. In this interview a member of the 1971 SAGE team David Morgan, who was stationed at McChord Air Base in Tacoma, WA comments specifically as follows:

"Morgan gave me an interesting military perspective on the Cooper skyjacking. He and many others at McChord were concerned that Cooper might use the airplane as a weapon and fly it into a military installation, or a nuclear reactor, such as the Hanford reactor and its supply of plutonium. Morgan was quite passionate about this possibility, (from a military perspective) and acknowledged it presaged by thirty years the fears now borne by 9-11. In fact, he indicated that the primary purpose of the pursuit planes, the so-called “alert birds,” was to shoot down Cooper and his airplane if he strayed too close to a military installation, or gave indications that he might crash the aircraft into a critical civilian (or military) site."

With that perspective in mind, controller Cliff Ammerman and the others involved, had an important task on their hands. A very real mission with two F-106's primed, loaded, and ready should the need arise. It was important to control and direct everyone to a successful non-military outcome.

Under these conditions knowing where 305 was and what it was doing, was of critical importance.

Likewise knowing that the hijacker was still on board, or not, and what the hijacker was doing, or not doing, was of equal importance.

Ammerman told me that he was never personally involved in any discussions about whether the hijacker was still on board or not, but that others were so involved. Cliff said that had the need developed he would have been given any information necessary to the performance of his duties. At 7:54 pm we have this exchange: MSP: As soon as reasonably sure the man has left the quicker you can land. - 305: Roger. Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him and thinks he will attempt a jump.  - MSP: Roger. After leaving this freq go to 131.8 we have direct phone patch there (to Company and FBI).
   
Can we assume the F-106s broke off with 305 after the threat had diminished or was over - according to someone's estimate as the plane left Portland airspace heading south toward Eugene. The F-106's could have been refueled in the air, or joined by other tactical fighters but that did not happen either. The perceived mission complete the F-106's were withdrawn and allowed to leave near Eugene, according to controller Ammerman. Can we assume somebody thought the air threat to national security was over - as appraised by others? From Eugene south no tactically armed mission escorted 305. What was the basis of that decision?

Georger, this is bullshit.  I was doing a lot of riding the airlines before the Cooper hijacking, after the Cooper hijacking, and during the very evening of the Cooper hijacking.  The only thing unusual about the Cooper hijacking was that it was apparently the first one in the USA for money and that involved a parachute exit.

Usually in 1971 it was just the young Black fellows who were in the line with you who got called out for a check to see if they wanted to go to Cuba or Africa.  With the Cooper hijacking, the airlines realized that they needed to start checking some white people as well.

The primary purpose of the F-106s and other such aircraft was to shoot down incoming Russian aircraft.  That is why they were based primarily in costal and border areas.  And also why they had reserved high altitude climb corridors.  These aircraft were operative long before hijacking became a fashion.

Finally, I don't think the FBI was talking directly to the airliner over the ARINC frequency.  They might have been relaying information through NWA.

Since my post centeres on the Bruce Smith 'David Morgan' feedback, then you are saying they are full of bullshit.

As usual, you are the smartest guy in the room. Maybe the only guy in the room. 

You basically are saying there was no military action in the Cooper case that matters. No military input in the Cooper case, that shaped the case. . . . . . the Bruce Smith interview is bullshit ........ and only you can tell the world what to think and how to think about the DB Cooper case.

And of course, that the USAF, FAA restrictions, and F-106s had no affect whatever on the route 305 flew.

Why didn't authorities just call you up and put you in charge of everything?  Why are you doing FOIA requests at a high level while also saying you already know everything and none of it matters! Are you are Elvis opting for a management position in the DB Cooper case? Maybe the Smithsonian will hire you and Harvard graduate Ulis ? Im just reaching for anything to say to The Manager of Avionics in the DB Cooper case! Teach us, Oh Master! 

Well if the "authorities" had called me up, they would have not been looking for Cooper 20 miles northeast of Portland.  And the Cooper hijacking would have probably been solved before the end of 1971 - or the summer of 1972 at the absolute latest.  And the FBI would never have been permitted to sit on the Seattle ATC transcripts.

There it is! Great post. Truth! 

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The Importance of F-106 Interdiction - was National Security:

Ulis can scoff all he wants. The fact remains (a) the Cooper Hijacking raised national security issues resulting in (b) a response and interdiction of the hijacked plane by USAF F-106's whose primary mission was to protect US Security assets ... and everyone including the pilots flying Flight 305 were aware of the need to stay within acceptable flight restrictions. They were NOT free to roam around the skies or do anything they wanted; and that is an understatement which could have resulted in dire consequences irrespective of the hijacker's threats and purported bomb!

Recent interviews with people involved make that clear. One such interview was recently done by Bruce Smith titled: Interview with a SAGE radar operator as investigations intensify in the DB Cooper Case - May 11, 2019. In this interview a member of the 1971 SAGE team David Morgan, who was stationed at McChord Air Base in Tacoma, WA comments specifically as follows:

"Morgan gave me an interesting military perspective on the Cooper skyjacking. He and many others at McChord were concerned that Cooper might use the airplane as a weapon and fly it into a military installation, or a nuclear reactor, such as the Hanford reactor and its supply of plutonium. Morgan was quite passionate about this possibility, (from a military perspective) and acknowledged it presaged by thirty years the fears now borne by 9-11. In fact, he indicated that the primary purpose of the pursuit planes, the so-called “alert birds,” was to shoot down Cooper and his airplane if he strayed too close to a military installation, or gave indications that he might crash the aircraft into a critical civilian (or military) site."

With that perspective in mind, controller Cliff Ammerman and the others involved, had an important task on their hands. A very real mission with two F-106's primed, loaded, and ready should the need arise. It was important to control and direct everyone to a successful non-military outcome.

Under these conditions knowing where 305 was and what it was doing, was of critical importance.

Likewise knowing that the hijacker was still on board, or not, and what the hijacker was doing, or not doing, was of equal importance.

Ammerman told me that he was never personally involved in any discussions about whether the hijacker was still on board or not, but that others were so involved. Cliff said that had the need developed he would have been given any information necessary to the performance of his duties. At 7:54 pm we have this exchange: MSP: As soon as reasonably sure the man has left the quicker you can land. - 305: Roger. Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him and thinks he will attempt a jump.  - MSP: Roger. After leaving this freq go to 131.8 we have direct phone patch there (to Company and FBI).
   
Can we assume the F-106s broke off with 305 after the threat had diminished or was over - according to someone's estimate as the plane left Portland airspace heading south toward Eugene. The F-106's could have been refueled in the air, or joined by other tactical fighters but that did not happen either. The perceived mission complete the F-106's were withdrawn and allowed to leave near Eugene, according to controller Ammerman. Can we assume somebody thought the air threat to national security was over - as appraised by others? From Eugene south no tactically armed mission escorted 305. What was the basis of that decision?

Georger, this is bullshit.  I was doing a lot of riding the airlines before the Cooper hijacking, after the Cooper hijacking, and during the very evening of the Cooper hijacking.  The only thing unusual about the Cooper hijacking was that it was apparently the first one in the USA for money and that involved a parachute exit.

Usually in 1971 it was just the young Black fellows who were in the line with you who got called out for a check to see if they wanted to go to Cuba or Africa.  With the Cooper hijacking, the airlines realized that they needed to start checking some white people as well.

The primary purpose of the F-106s and other such aircraft was to shoot down incoming Russian aircraft.  That is why they were based primarily in costal and border areas.  And also why they had reserved high altitude climb corridors.  These aircraft were operative long before hijacking became a fashion.

Finally, I don't think the FBI was talking directly to the airliner over the ARINC frequency.  They might have been relaying information through NWA.

Since my post centeres on the Bruce Smith 'David Morgan' feedback, then you are saying they are full of bullshit.

As usual, you are the smartest guy in the room. Maybe the only guy in the room. 

You basically are saying there was no military action in the Cooper case that matters. No military input in the Cooper case, that shaped the case. . . . . . the Bruce Smith interview is bullshit ........ and only you can tell the world what to think and how to think about the DB Cooper case.

And of course, that the USAF, FAA restrictions, and F-106s had no affect whatever on the route 305 flew.

Why didn't authorities just call you up and put you in charge of everything?  Why are you doing FOIA requests at a high level while also saying you already know everything and none of it matters! Are you are Elvis opting for a management position in the DB Cooper case? Maybe the Smithsonian will hire you and Harvard graduate Ulis ? Im just reaching for anything to say to The Manager of Avionics in the DB Cooper case! Teach us, Oh Master! 

Well if the "authorities" had called me up, they would have not been looking for Cooper 20 miles northeast of Portland.  And the Cooper hijacking would have probably been solved before the end of 1971 - or the summer of 1972 at the absolute latest.  And the FBI would never have been permitted to sit on the Seattle ATC transcripts.

Are you really serious ?  You’re the same guy that couldn’t figure out how to find REI in downtown Portland even though you were not more than a mile away from it ! You only think you know it all !

Yes, I am serious.  And I did find REI in downtown Portland.

Portland looks like it was assembled from five different towns and they all kept their same street addresses.  When looking for a street address that is suppose to be in the northeast corner of a city, I would not normally expect to find it in the southwest part of the same city.  But I did find it and Mensa can relax.

I don't know how the Portland addresses make sense to you, but maybe there is something in your local water that explains it.