Ammerman's interview with me yesterday:

To begin, Cliff emphasized that his thoughts, recollections and estimates are based upon an event 48 years previous. Therefore, they are not set in stone.

Ammerman clarified that when he formerly stated the jet traveled near Hillsboro that he was referring to an area that he estimates was west of downtown Portland but east of Beaverton. Additionally, he stated that he recalls the jet flying on a heading of 160. Moreover, that this heading was consistent from a point somewhere east of Kelso down to a point south of Portland where the jet would have naturally merged back into centerline V23. At this merging point the jet would have modified its course to 175 as it headed toward Eugene.

He stated that the T-33 pulled in behind 305 NNW of PDX. According to Cliff, 305 was never north or east of PDX.

I stated to him that based upon his information it appears that 305 could have flown right over Woodland and asked him if this sounded accurate. He stated, "yes that's possible."

He clarified that he was not told that 305 was assigned V23, however, that it became apparent that V23 was the route that he was flying. He stated that he did not recall 305 leaving V23 because he did not recall being concerned about it leaving V23. Add to this his comments about not being concerned about the jet flying a couple miles out of V23 because their navigation equipment may show a little variance in position. Also, he thinks that 305 would have slipped out of the western boundary of V23 slightly as it passed PDX and Portland. Nonetheless, not far enough out to be of concern.

I asked about the "23 miles south of Battlefield VORTAC" and he said it is entirely likely that 305 was tuned in to Battleground and also Eugene. In other words, that both were set. Remember, the pilot's objective was to cut out the V23 "dogleg" as Cliff puts it. They would have headed 160 from the Kelso area knowing that they would eventually naturally merge back into V23 south of Portland. This was done to avoid the majority of population on the ground around the Portland/Vancouver area.

What this indicates is that 305 and the T-33 flew due south for quite a long distance and that they flew from east of Kelso, over or very near Woodland, over or very near the Ridgefield National Wildlife Refuge, over or very near Tena Bar, west of Portland and ultimately merged back in to centerline V23 south of Portland then adjusted to 175 toward Eugene.

Notably, this path appears to line up remarkably well with the three red "+" marks on the yellow FBI flight path map.

Ammerman's interview with me yesterday:

To begin, Cliff emphasized that his thoughts, recollections and estimates are based upon an event 48 years previous. Therefore, they are not set in stone.

Ammerman clarified that when he formerly stated the jet traveled near Hillsboro that he was referring to an area that he estimates was west of downtown Portland but east of Beaverton. Additionally, he stated that he recalls the jet flying on a heading of 160. Moreover, that this heading was consistent from a point somewhere east of Kelso down to a point south of Portland where the jet would have naturally merged back into centerline V23. At this merging point the jet would have modified its course to 175 as it headed toward Eugene.

He stated that the T-33 pulled in behind 305 NNW of PDX. According to Cliff, 305 was never north or east of PDX.

I stated to him that based upon his information it appears that 305 could have flown right over Woodland and asked him if this sounded accurate. He stated, "yes that's possible."

He clarified that he was not told that 305 was assigned V23, however, that it became apparent that V23 was the route that he was flying. He stated that he did not recall 305 leaving V23 because he did not recall being concerned about it leaving V23. Add to this his comments about not being concerned about the jet flying a couple miles out of V23 because their navigation equipment may show a little variance in position. Also, he thinks that 305 would have slipped out of the western boundary of V23 slightly as it passed PDX and Portland. Nonetheless, not far enough out to be of concern.

I asked about the "23 miles south of Battlefield VORTAC" and he said it is entirely likely that 305 was tuned in to Battleground and also Eugene. In other words, that both were set. Remember, the pilot's objective was to cut out the V23 "dogleg" as Cliff puts it. They would have headed 160 from the Kelso area knowing that they would eventually naturally merge back into V23 south of Portland. This was done to avoid the majority of population on the ground around the Portland/Vancouver area.

What this indicates is that 305 and the T-33 flew due south for quite a long distance and that they flew from east of Kelso, over or very near Woodland, over or very near the Ridgefield National Wildlife Refuge, over or very near Tena Bar, west of Portland and ultimately merged back in to centerline V23 south of Portland then adjusted to 175 toward Eugene.

Notably, this path appears to line up remarkably well with the three red "+" marks on the yellow FBI flight path map.

Your one paragraph above is almost verbatim to what I reported, in my interview with Cliff re- V23.

Looks like you have now pressured your way into confirming your suspect narrative - that Cooper jumped over Tina Bar - and planted the money to a depth of 2-3 feet deep in one million places at Tina Bar - using clam shells and a stick. DB Cooper was Mariner in Waterworld! He never worked at Boeing because Boeing does not hire mermaids!

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Ammerman's interview with me yesterday:

To begin, Cliff emphasized that his thoughts, recollections and estimates are based upon an event 48 years previous. Therefore, they are not set in stone.

Ammerman clarified that when he formerly stated the jet traveled near Hillsboro that he was referring to an area that he estimates was west of downtown Portland but east of Beaverton. Additionally, he stated that he recalls the jet flying on a heading of 160. Moreover, that this heading was consistent from a point somewhere east of Kelso down to a point south of Portland where the jet would have naturally merged back into centerline V23. At this merging point the jet would have modified its course to 175 as it headed toward Eugene.

He stated that the T-33 pulled in behind 305 NNW of PDX. According to Cliff, 305 was never north or east of PDX.

I stated to him that based upon his information it appears that 305 could have flown right over Woodland and asked him if this sounded accurate. He stated, "yes that's possible."

He clarified that he was not told that 305 was assigned V23, however, that it became apparent that V23 was the route that he was flying. He stated that he did not recall 305 leaving V23 because he did not recall being concerned about it leaving V23. Add to this his comments about not being concerned about the jet flying a couple miles out of V23 because their navigation equipment may show a little variance in position. Also, he thinks that 305 would have slipped out of the western boundary of V23 slightly as it passed PDX and Portland. Nonetheless, not far enough out to be of concern.

I asked about the "23 miles south of Battlefield VORTAC" and he said it is entirely likely that 305 was tuned in to Battleground and also Eugene. In other words, that both were set. Remember, the pilot's objective was to cut out the V23 "dogleg" as Cliff puts it. They would have headed 160 from the Kelso area knowing that they would eventually naturally merge back into V23 south of Portland. This was done to avoid the majority of population on the ground around the Portland/Vancouver area.

What this indicates is that 305 and the T-33 flew due south for quite a long distance and that they flew from east of Kelso, over or very near Woodland, over or very near the Ridgefield National Wildlife Refuge, over or very near Tena Bar, west of Portland and ultimately merged back in to centerline V23 south of Portland then adjusted to 175 toward Eugene.

Notably, this path appears to line up remarkably well with the three red "+" marks on the yellow FBI flight path map.

Cliff has essentially put the airliner right back on a line between the Malay and Canby Intersections when he said it passed east of Beaverton.  But read further.

We need to briefly discuss the term "heading" and what it means in this instance.  VORs are aligned so that the "O" is pointing toward the magnetic north pole and not the geographic north pole.  Therefore, the radials are with respect to the magnetic north pole and the magnetic variation must be added or substracted from them in order to determine their relationship with the grid lines or true north.

The magnetic north pole is not a fixed point but wanders around somewhere north of Greenland.  Consequently, the magnetic variation is constantly changing for a fixed point such as Portland.  In 1971, the magnetic variation at Portland was approximately 20 degrees east and this value must be added to the value of the VOR radials to get their relationship with respect to the grid lines.  If the variation was given as a number of degrees west, this value would have to be substracted from the radials to give their relationship with respect to the grid lines.

Cliff said the airliner was flying on a heading of 160 degrees when it bypassed Portland.  Adding the 20 degree east variation in this case, means that the airliner was flying on a true heading of 180 degrees or straight south.  The direct line between the Malay and Canby Intersections is also straight south.  The 23 DME radius from the Battleground VORTAC intersects this straight south line on the western edge of V-23.

So from that 23 DME point, the airliner could fly direct to the Eugene VORTAC and always be on V-23 itself.

Although we may have to make some minor changes on the western flight path as more information becomes available, I think Cliff has apparently eliminated all other possible flight paths.

Well of course! Cliff is pliable.  See if you can get him to endorse Sheridan Peterson and the money plant at Tina's Bar ......  and Mileva Maric inventing Relativity! See if you can get him to endorse Trump in 020! And foghorns replacing trumpets in orchestras! And EU as director of the Air & Space museum.

Two for $5 still at Hardees !     

If fact, let me go on record as saying: You and Ulis/Elvis are going to spoil this for everybody. But you and Elvis don't give a shit!

Can you get Cliff to do the Hoky Poky while singing Clementine, or claim he did ? 

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Ammerman's interview with me yesterday:

To begin, Cliff emphasized that his thoughts, recollections and estimates are based upon an event 48 years previous. Therefore, they are not set in stone.

Ammerman clarified that when he formerly stated the jet traveled near Hillsboro that he was referring to an area that he estimates was west of downtown Portland but east of Beaverton. Additionally, he stated that he recalls the jet flying on a heading of 160. Moreover, that this heading was consistent from a point somewhere east of Kelso down to a point south of Portland where the jet would have naturally merged back into centerline V23. At this merging point the jet would have modified its course to 175 as it headed toward Eugene.

He stated that the T-33 pulled in behind 305 NNW of PDX. According to Cliff, 305 was never north or east of PDX.

I stated to him that based upon his information it appears that 305 could have flown right over Woodland and asked him if this sounded accurate. He stated, "yes that's possible."

He clarified that he was not told that 305 was assigned V23, however, that it became apparent that V23 was the route that he was flying. He stated that he did not recall 305 leaving V23 because he did not recall being concerned about it leaving V23. Add to this his comments about not being concerned about the jet flying a couple miles out of V23 because their navigation equipment may show a little variance in position. Also, he thinks that 305 would have slipped out of the western boundary of V23 slightly as it passed PDX and Portland. Nonetheless, not far enough out to be of concern.

I asked about the "23 miles south of Battlefield VORTAC" and he said it is entirely likely that 305 was tuned in to Battleground and also Eugene. In other words, that both were set. Remember, the pilot's objective was to cut out the V23 "dogleg" as Cliff puts it. They would have headed 160 from the Kelso area knowing that they would eventually naturally merge back into V23 south of Portland. This was done to avoid the majority of population on the ground around the Portland/Vancouver area.

What this indicates is that 305 and the T-33 flew due south for quite a long distance and that they flew from east of Kelso, over or very near Woodland, over or very near the Ridgefield National Wildlife Refuge, over or very near Tena Bar, west of Portland and ultimately merged back in to centerline V23 south of Portland then adjusted to 175 toward Eugene.

Notably, this path appears to line up remarkably well with the three red "+" marks on the yellow FBI flight path map.

Cliff has essentially put the airliner right back on a line between the Malay and Canby Intersections when he said it passed east of Beaverton.  But read further.

We need to briefly discuss the term "heading" and what it means in this instance.  VORs are aligned so that the "O" is pointing toward the magnetic north pole and not the geographic north pole.  Therefore, the radials are with respect to the magnetic north pole and the magnetic variation must be added or substracted from them in order to determine their relationship with the grid lines or true north.

The magnetic north pole is not a fixed point but wanders around somewhere north of Greenland.  Consequently, the magnetic variation is constantly changing for a fixed point such as Portland.  In 1971, the magnetic variation at Portland was approximately 20 degrees east and this value must be added to the value of the VOR radials to get their relationship with respect to the grid lines.  If the variation was given as a number of degrees west, this value would have to be substracted from the radials to give their relationship with respect to the grid lines.

Cliff said the airliner was flying on a heading of 160 degrees when it bypassed Portland.  Adding the 20 degree east variation in this case, means that the airliner was flying on a true heading of 180 degrees or straight south.  The direct line between the Malay and Canby Intersections is also straight south.  The 23 DME radius from the Battleground VORTAC intersects this straight south line on the western edge of V-23.

So from that 23 DME point, the airliner could fly direct to the Eugene VORTAC and always be on V-23 itself.

Although we may have to make some minor changes on the western flight path as more information becomes available, I think Cliff has apparently eliminated all other possible flight paths.

   

If fact, let me go on record as saying: You and Ulis/Elvis are going to spoil this for everybody. But you and Elvis don't give a shit!

If you just stuck to facts, nothing would be spoiled for you.

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Ammerman's interview with me yesterday:

To begin, Cliff emphasized that his thoughts, recollections and estimates are based upon an event 48 years previous. Therefore, they are not set in stone.

Ammerman clarified that when he formerly stated the jet traveled near Hillsboro that he was referring to an area that he estimates was west of downtown Portland but east of Beaverton. Additionally, he stated that he recalls the jet flying on a heading of 160. Moreover, that this heading was consistent from a point somewhere east of Kelso down to a point south of Portland where the jet would have naturally merged back into centerline V23. At this merging point the jet would have modified its course to 175 as it headed toward Eugene.

He stated that the T-33 pulled in behind 305 NNW of PDX. According to Cliff, 305 was never north or east of PDX.

I stated to him that based upon his information it appears that 305 could have flown right over Woodland and asked him if this sounded accurate. He stated, "yes that's possible."

He clarified that he was not told that 305 was assigned V23, however, that it became apparent that V23 was the route that he was flying. He stated that he did not recall 305 leaving V23 because he did not recall being concerned about it leaving V23. Add to this his comments about not being concerned about the jet flying a couple miles out of V23 because their navigation equipment may show a little variance in position. Also, he thinks that 305 would have slipped out of the western boundary of V23 slightly as it passed PDX and Portland. Nonetheless, not far enough out to be of concern.

I asked about the "23 miles south of Battlefield VORTAC" and he said it is entirely likely that 305 was tuned in to Battleground and also Eugene. In other words, that both were set. Remember, the pilot's objective was to cut out the V23 "dogleg" as Cliff puts it. They would have headed 160 from the Kelso area knowing that they would eventually naturally merge back into V23 south of Portland. This was done to avoid the majority of population on the ground around the Portland/Vancouver area.

What this indicates is that 305 and the T-33 flew due south for quite a long distance and that they flew from east of Kelso, over or very near Woodland, over or very near the Ridgefield National Wildlife Refuge, over or very near Tena Bar, west of Portland and ultimately merged back in to centerline V23 south of Portland then adjusted to 175 toward Eugene.

Notably, this path appears to line up remarkably well with the three red "+" marks on the yellow FBI flight path map.

Cliff has essentially put the airliner right back on a line between the Malay and Canby Intersections when he said it passed east of Beaverton.  But read further.

We need to briefly discuss the term "heading" and what it means in this instance.  VORs are aligned so that the "O" is pointing toward the magnetic north pole and not the geographic north pole.  Therefore, the radials are with respect to the magnetic north pole and the magnetic variation must be added or substracted from them in order to determine their relationship with the grid lines or true north.

The magnetic north pole is not a fixed point but wanders around somewhere north of Greenland.  Consequently, the magnetic variation is constantly changing for a fixed point such as Portland.  In 1971, the magnetic variation at Portland was approximately 20 degrees east and this value must be added to the value of the VOR radials to get their relationship with respect to the grid lines.  If the variation was given as a number of degrees west, this value would have to be substracted from the radials to give their relationship with respect to the grid lines.

Cliff said the airliner was flying on a heading of 160 degrees when it bypassed Portland.  Adding the 20 degree east variation in this case, means that the airliner was flying on a true heading of 180 degrees or straight south.  The direct line between the Malay and Canby Intersections is also straight south.  The 23 DME radius from the Battleground VORTAC intersects this straight south line on the western edge of V-23.

So from that 23 DME point, the airliner could fly direct to the Eugene VORTAC and always be on V-23 itself.

Although we may have to make some minor changes on the western flight path as more information becomes available, I think Cliff has apparently eliminated all other possible flight paths.

Cliff has essentially put the airliner right back on a line between the Malay and Canby Intersections when he said it passed east of Beaverton.  But read further.

This is NOT the Cliff Ammerman I interviewed!

What will Cliff say when he reads all of this EU-R99 bs ?  And he will be reading ALL of this crap. 

My concern is Ammerman is going to feel miss-quoted and used. Being used for someone's agenda! My impression of Mr. Ammerman is that is the last thing he wants, or would knowingly involve himself in. I guess we will see. EU and R99 have left no other choice now.

Why don't you just state the basis for your allegations?  And it would really be nice if you included some facts and not just your impressions or concerns.

And while you are at it, just what is your theory which you claim that EU and I are undercutting? 

According to Mr. Ammerman, he says he never told Eric Ulis anything that would support or authenticate Ulis' statement published here  that "Cliff has essentially put the airliner right back on a line between the Malay and Canby Intersections when he said it passed east of Beaverton." Ammerman says that he never told Ulis anything of the kind, but he told Ulis the same thing he has told everyone else, namely: " I am sure 305 never left the V23 airway the entire time I had them on radar."

It is clear that Ulis and R99 are trying to manipulate everything, without any real supporting testimony by anyone.

GEORGER:

Do you know why Ammerman said he never told me "Cliff has essentially put the airliner right back on a line between the Malay and Canby Intersections when he said it passed east of Beaverton" ? Because I didn't say that. I challenge you to show me where I made that comment.

What I said is in post#2476.

Is this yet another mistake from you, or is this deliberate? Or is it a matter that you cannot read or choose not to read?

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason that people don't want to discuss this case or speak to what they experienced (i.e., Tina, Rataczak, Scott, Mitchell, Fazio's, etc.) is because of people like you? What makes you think Ammerman or anyone wants to be bothered by your antics, drama and agenda to discredit anyone and everything that doesn't dovetail nicely into your narrative? These are normal people that have had enough of dealing with your type for the last 48 years.

Get a life.

OK. just read 2476 ...

"I stated to him that based upon his information it appears that 305 could have flown right over Woodland and asked him if this sounded accurate. He stated, "yes that's possible."

Who is leading who? You leading Ammerman or Ammerman leading you?   

No wonder the Coast Guard wouldnt let you run a boat with passengers to Tina Bar! You dont need no stinkin license!  You are your own authority on ever-thang.

Who is leading who?  And by the way character - you aint ELVIS! STOP PRETENDING AND MAKING THINGS UP!

Stop using people. The Cooper case is more than a social media event for you to assume management of!