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Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 982793 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2250 on: June 30, 2019, 07:36:58 PM »
Just exactly how did the F-106 pilots determine the ground point where they claim Cooper jumped?

Experience.
Close behind the hijacked aircraft.
Knowing where he was.
Knowing the area.
Listening in on the cross talk.
Radar.

He never claimed it to be "the jump point"
He stated "The point of there change of course would have been in close proximity in time and location to that believed were unsub departed the aircraft"

It's similar to a cop chasing a suspect in a car. you see them name the street a block before they get there. they know. eveybody can't be wrong here.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2251 on: June 30, 2019, 07:46:15 PM »
Has it been verified the dashes mean data was removed? they start right out of the gate on takeoff. what could be said that wasn't mentioned minutes prior?
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2252 on: June 30, 2019, 08:02:49 PM »
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Has it been verified the dashes mean data was removed? they start right out of the gate on takeoff. what could be said that wasn't mentioned minutes prior?

I think that using dash to indicate deletions is a standard writing practice.  But what needed to be deleted in the first two minutes after takeoff is an open question.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 08:04:28 PM by Robert99 »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2253 on: June 30, 2019, 08:08:25 PM »
I just noticed when looking at the radio transcripts at the top. more transmissions are shown further down that fill the gaps where the dases are placed.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 08:10:00 PM by Shutter »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2254 on: June 30, 2019, 08:15:45 PM »
Time frame
0433:46
---------
0433:51

5 second difference? you can't get two transmissions worth hiding in this time frame?
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2255 on: June 30, 2019, 08:16:27 PM »
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I just noticed when looking at the radio transcripts at the top. more transmissions are shown further down that fill the gaps where the dases are placed.

Could you explain this a bit better?  Are you confusing the time a message was transmitted over the ARINC phone patch with the time same message was received through the ARINC teletype network?
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2256 on: June 30, 2019, 08:24:15 PM »
The two shots on one page are from the radio transcript PDF. not the other.....further down gives more detail it appears?
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2257 on: June 30, 2019, 08:24:33 PM »
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Time frame
0433:46
---------
0433:51

5 second difference? you can't get two transmissions worth hiding in this time frame?

I don't see what you are talking about.  But as previously mentioned, any transmission from the airliner over the ARINC phone patch is going to arrive at least two minutes before the message arrives over the ARINC teletype network.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2258 on: June 30, 2019, 08:26:21 PM »
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I just noticed when looking at the radio transcripts at the top. more transmissions are shown further down that fill the gaps where the dases are placed.

Could you explain this a bit better?  Are you confusing the time a message was transmitted over the ARINC phone patch with the time same message was received through the ARINC teletype network?


actually, you are right. I thought I had one PDF open in two windows....one is the ARINC...
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2259 on: June 30, 2019, 08:35:43 PM »
here is the time issue....5 seconds between transmissions and dashes in between?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 08:36:25 PM by Shutter »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2260 on: June 30, 2019, 08:56:12 PM »
A skydiver on the DZ makes a good point in reference to the chase plane. it appears they are talking about the two planes and not 305. this could be from the radar data and the person making the comment. it's showing the planes did zig zag to trail them. makes more sense as to how they found the ground location.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 08:57:35 PM by Shutter »
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2261 on: July 01, 2019, 12:16:41 AM »
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here is the time issue....5 seconds between transmissions and dashes in between?

This was in connection with the hand off from one controller to another.  The deleted information probably related to the aircraft's position.
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Offline 377

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2262 on: July 24, 2019, 12:45:39 PM »
Most US interceptor aircraft in the 70s had only UHF AM comm radios covering 225-400 MHz. They had no way to directly communicate with civil aircraft that had only VHF AM comm radios covering approx 118-136 MHz.

The McChord F 106s never sighted Coopers 727, despite SAGE and the Hughes MA1 data link system that, when working, provided SAGE directed automatically flown target intercepts.

A McChord "trash hauler" C 130 cargo plane did intercept the skyjacked 727. The elite F 106 fighter/interceptor jocks must have been totally humiliated.

The involvement of Minneapolis is not surprising. Airline pilots want to clear everything with "The Company" when there are risky situations. I've seen VHF ACARS texts where a cockpit crew was angsting with "The Company" on whether to involve law enforcement when a drunk celeb was causing trouble on a flight. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.

377

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Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2263 on: July 24, 2019, 02:13:18 PM »
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Most US interceptor aircraft in the 70s had only UHF AM comm radios covering 225-400 MHz. They had no way to directly communicate with civil aircraft that had only VHF AM comm radios covering approx 118-136 MHz.

The McChord F 106s never sighted Coopers 727, despite SAGE and the Hughes MA1 data link system that, when working, provided SAGE directed automatically flown target intercepts.

A McChord "trash hauler" C 130 cargo plane did intercept the skyjacked 727. The elite F 106 fighter/interceptor jocks must have been totally humiliated.

The involvement of Minneapolis is not surprising. Airline pilots want to clear everything with "The Company" when there are risky situations. I've seen VHF ACARS texts where a cockpit crew was angsting with "The Company" on whether to involve law enforcement when a drunk celeb was causing trouble on a flight. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.

377

What is your narrative based on? Specific documents?

So what do you make of this - F106 pilot describing 305's movements?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 02:22:42 PM by georger »
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Offline 377

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2264 on: July 24, 2019, 02:45:49 PM »
I could be wrong G but that excerpt doesn't read like it came from either of the F 106 pilots. Sounds more like a radar operator's narrative.

At night, even in clear weather, trailing a 727 from 5 miles back, chase planes wouldn't see much more than its lights.

Again, I may be wrong. Show me evidence that the F 106 pilots actually saw the 727 and I'll change my mind.

377



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