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It’s great to quote a fisherman’s memory going back 50 years but that doesn’t make it factual ! I was delivering mail back in 1964 and the Great Christmas flood crested at 27.7 feet. I had a mail route in Milwaukee and the Willamette flooded about 1/3 of my route under water. Also in 1996, we had another flood that crested at 27.6 feet and caused huge damage in the hundreds of Millions as I recall. The 1964 Christmas floods led to quite a few deaths also. I witnessed mobile homes docked at the Sellwood Bridge area break loose and float down the Willamette. I was there in 1948 and witnessed the famous Vanport flood which crested at over 30 ft.as I recall. The river and Tina Bar Robert viewed in 2013 was a shadow of what it was in 1971.

Kermit,

I suspect you are relating "gage" readings and not distances above sea level.  And what gage are you referring to?  The Vancouver/Portland gage is located just off shore on the Vancouver side of the Columbia River and just a few hundred feet east of the I-5 bridge.

It is agreed that the Tina Bar area has a huge erosion problem.  But the aerial pictures from the early 1970s can be used to estimate that erosion.

Do you know of a source for the gage readings at Vancouver/Portland in the 1971 to 1973 time frame?  Also, can you clarify how the earlier readings were adjusted to put them in the WGS84 system?

Robert,
Yes I am giving a reading from the Portland/Vancouver gage which is right by the I 5 Bridge as you mentioned.
Since I’m seeing up to 24 readings in the negative, I’m assuming the river actual Sea Level high point must be in excess of the gage readings ? Going back to the 1971 to 1973 time frame might not be easy to attain. Since the present daily readings are charted by the National Weather bureau Portland’s Office, that might be a good area to start at. I guess one of the main points I wanted to make is all these rivers in the general area have had numerous
Floods over the years I’ve lived here. Some people have posted about how small the Washougal River flow is but I’ve seem it flood and cause close to $100,000 damage to my Mother In Laws home which was right on the river !

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It’s great to quote a fisherman’s memory going back 50 years but that doesn’t make it factual ! I was delivering mail back in 1964 and the Great Christmas flood crested at 27.7 feet. I had a mail route in Milwaukee and the Willamette flooded about 1/3 of my route under water. Also in 1996, we had another flood that crested at 27.6 feet and caused huge damage in the hundreds of Millions as I recall. The 1964 Christmas floods led to quite a few deaths also. I witnessed mobile homes docked at the Sellwood Bridge area break loose and float down the Willamette. I was there in 1948 and witnessed the famous Vanport flood which crested at over 30 ft.as I recall. The river and Tina Bar Robert viewed in 2013 was a shadow of what it was in 1971.

Kermit,

I suspect you are relating "gage" readings and not distances above sea level.  And what gage are you referring to?  The Vancouver/Portland gage is located just off shore on the Vancouver side of the Columbia River and just a few hundred feet east of the I-5 bridge.

It is agreed that the Tina Bar area has a huge erosion problem.  But the aerial pictures from the early 1970s can be used to estimate that erosion.

Do you know of a source for the gage readings at Vancouver/Portland in the 1971 to 1973 time frame?  Also, can you clarify how the earlier readings were adjusted to put them in the WGS84 system?

Robert,
Yes I am giving a reading from the Portland/Vancouver gage which is right by the I 5 Bridge as you mentioned.
Since I’m seeing up to 24 readings in the negative, I’m assuming the river actual Sea Level high point must be in excess of the gage readings ? Going back to the 1971 to 1973 time frame might not be easy to attain. Since the present daily readings are charted by the National Weather bureau Portland’s Office, that might be a good area to start at. I guess one of the main points I wanted to make is all these rivers in the general area have had numerous
Floods over the years I’ve lived here. Some people have posted about how small the Washougal River flow is but I’ve seem it flood and cause close to $100,000 damage to my Mother In Laws home which was right on the river !

The contention by Himmelsbach was that Cooper "might have" landed somewhere in the Washougal Basin. This was based on a comment by a Hydrologist named Bradley who said in 1977 the Washougal was ten feet out of its banks. But two separate lab analyses of Cooper bills and sands found between the bills showed no evidence the money had ever been in the Washougal geological region. There is no evidence the flight path was ever in the Washougal basin!

Sand types and chemistry found in labs on two separate occasions, connect the money to "Columbia river water" - only, and to no other source or geological region like the Washougal, or anywhere else on the Fazio property than where the Ingrams found the money.

Quote

Your posts suggests that Cooper landed in the Columbia River and not north of it.  Since the airliner had a ground speed of about three nautical miles per minute, or 300 feet per second, and the river is 1500 feet wide at most in the Portland International Airport area (and east of there) the airliner would have crossed the river in about five seconds.  Cooper must have timed his jump well!

And you have just pulled the rug out from under the FBI flight path.  Congratulations!

What?

The likelihood of hitting a specific point on a dart board is near zero, but the odds of hitting the dartboard are near 1:1. Yeah, it was an unlikely event to land in the Columbia, but it was also an unlikely event to land at any specific point. But he had to land somewhere...

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It’s great to quote a fisherman’s memory going back 50 years but that doesn’t make it factual ! I was delivering mail back in 1964 and the Great Christmas flood crested at 27.7 feet. I had a mail route in Milwaukee and the Willamette flooded about 1/3 of my route under water. Also in 1996, we had another flood that crested at 27.6 feet and caused huge damage in the hundreds of Millions as I recall. The 1964 Christmas floods led to quite a few deaths also. I witnessed mobile homes docked at the Sellwood Bridge area break loose and float down the Willamette. I was there in 1948 and witnessed the famous Vanport flood which crested at over 30 ft.as I recall. The river and Tina Bar Robert viewed in 2013 was a shadow of what it was in 1971.

Kermit,

I suspect you are relating "gage" readings and not distances above sea level.  And what gage are you referring to?  The Vancouver/Portland gage is located just off shore on the Vancouver side of the Columbia River and just a few hundred feet east of the I-5 bridge.

It is agreed that the Tina Bar area has a huge erosion problem.  But the aerial pictures from the early 1970s can be used to estimate that erosion.

Do you know of a source for the gage readings at Vancouver/Portland in the 1971 to 1973 time frame?  Also, can you clarify how the earlier readings were adjusted to put them in the WGS84 system?

Robert,
Yes I am giving a reading from the Portland/Vancouver gage which is right by the I 5 Bridge as you mentioned.
Since I’m seeing up to 24 readings in the negative, I’m assuming the river actual Sea Level high point must be in excess of the gage readings ? Going back to the 1971 to 1973 time frame might not be easy to attain. Since the present daily readings are charted by the National Weather bureau Portland’s Office, that might be a good area to start at. I guess one of the main points I wanted to make is all these rivers in the general area have had numerous
Floods over the years I’ve lived here. Some people have posted about how small the Washougal River flow is but I’ve seem it flood and cause close to $100,000 damage to my Mother In Laws home which was right on the river !

Kermit,

I think that "zero" on the I-5 gage would be above sea level.  And I don't think there would be an actual measured gage reading below sea level.  Portland International Airport, which is just across the Columbia River from this gage, is listed as being 30 feet above sea level.  The typical low water river level surface is probability going to be about five feet above sea level or less.  So my guess is that the "zero" on the gage is going to be about five feet above sea level. 

Do you happen to know if the gage readings were published in the Portland newspapers during the early 1970s?  I contacted the National Weather Service in Portland about 10 years ago and they directed me to a site that had the gage information going back to about 1973.  This covered the money find time period but not the jump time frame.  I would like to get the water level information for the day of the hijacking and a few days on each side of that date.

Robert,
Yes I am in agreement with you that the gage is probably 5 ft. Above SL. I had it pegged at perhaps as high as 7 ft. Above Sea Level.
I live about 70 miles North of Portland now but go to Portland about twice a month. I might put it on my agenda to drop by the Portland Weather bureau on one of my next trips. Accessing a copy of the Oregonian newspaper on Nov 24 and 25 would be a very interesting although I’m not sure if that would still be possible. The present day Oregonian is a shadow of what it used to be. I might try to drop by in person and see what I can find out about archived editions.

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It’s great to quote a fisherman’s memory going back 50 years but that doesn’t make it factual ! I was delivering mail back in 1964 and the Great Christmas flood crested at 27.7 feet. I had a mail route in Milwaukee and the Willamette flooded about 1/3 of my route under water. Also in 1996, we had another flood that crested at 27.6 feet and caused huge damage in the hundreds of Millions as I recall. The 1964 Christmas floods led to quite a few deaths also. I witnessed mobile homes docked at the Sellwood Bridge area break loose and float down the Willamette. I was there in 1948 and witnessed the famous Vanport flood which crested at over 30 ft.as I recall. The river and Tina Bar Robert viewed in 2013 was a shadow of what it was in 1971.

Kermit,

I suspect you are relating "gage" readings and not distances above sea level.  And what gage are you referring to?  The Vancouver/Portland gage is located just off shore on the Vancouver side of the Columbia River and just a few hundred feet east of the I-5 bridge.

It is agreed that the Tina Bar area has a huge erosion problem.  But the aerial pictures from the early 1970s can be used to estimate that erosion.

Do you know of a source for the gage readings at Vancouver/Portland in the 1971 to 1973 time frame?  Also, can you clarify how the earlier readings were adjusted to put them in the WGS84 system?

Robert,
Yes I am giving a reading from the Portland/Vancouver gage which is right by the I 5 Bridge as you mentioned.
Since I’m seeing up to 24 readings in the negative, I’m assuming the river actual Sea Level high point must be in excess of the gage readings ? Going back to the 1971 to 1973 time frame might not be easy to attain. Since the present daily readings are charted by the National Weather bureau Portland’s Office, that might be a good area to start at. I guess one of the main points I wanted to make is all these rivers in the general area have had numerous
Floods over the years I’ve lived here. Some people have posted about how small the Washougal River flow is but I’ve seem it flood and cause close to $100,000 damage to my Mother In Laws home which was right on the river !

Kermit,

I think that "zero" on the I-5 gage would be above sea level.  And I don't think there would be an actual measured gage reading below sea level.  Portland International Airport, which is just across the Columbia River from this gage, is listed as being 30 feet above sea level.  The typical low water river level surface is probability going to be about five feet above sea level or less.  So my guess is that the "zero" on the gage is going to be about five feet above sea level. 

Do you happen to know if the gage readings were published in the Portland newspapers during the early 1970s?  I contacted the National Weather Service in Portland about 10 years ago and they directed me to a site that had the gage information going back to about 1973.  This covered the money find time period but not the jump time frame.  I would like to get the water level information for the day of the hijacking and a few days on each side of that date.

Robert,
Yes I am in agreement with you that the gage is probably 5 ft. Above SL. I had it pegged at perhaps as high as 7 ft. Above Sea Level.
I live about 70 miles North of Portland now but go to Portland about twice a month. I might put it on my agenda to drop by the Portland Weather bureau on one of my next trips. Accessing a copy of the Oregonian newspaper on Nov 24 and 25 would be a very interesting although I’m not sure if that would still be possible. The present day Oregonian is a shadow of what it used to be. I might try to drop by in person and see what I can find out about archived editions.

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It’s great to quote a fisherman’s memory going back 50 years but that doesn’t make it factual ! I was delivering mail back in 1964 and the Great Christmas flood crested at 27.7 feet. I had a mail route in Milwaukee and the Willamette flooded about 1/3 of my route under water. Also in 1996, we had another flood that crested at 27.6 feet and caused huge damage in the hundreds of Millions as I recall. The 1964 Christmas floods led to quite a few deaths also. I witnessed mobile homes docked at the Sellwood Bridge area break loose and float down the Willamette. I was there in 1948 and witnessed the famous Vanport flood which crested at over 30 ft.as I recall. The river and Tina Bar Robert viewed in 2013 was a shadow of what it was in 1971.

Kermit,

I suspect you are relating "gage" readings and not distances above sea level.  And what gage are you referring to?  The Vancouver/Portland gage is located just off shore on the Vancouver side of the Columbia River and just a few hundred feet east of the I-5 bridge.

It is agreed that the Tina Bar area has a huge erosion problem.  But the aerial pictures from the early 1970s can be used to estimate that erosion.

Do you know of a source for the gage readings at Vancouver/Portland in the 1971 to 1973 time frame?  Also, can you clarify how the earlier readings were adjusted to put them in the WGS84 system?

Robert,
Yes I am giving a reading from the Portland/Vancouver gage which is right by the I 5 Bridge as you mentioned.
Since I’m seeing up to 24 readings in the negative, I’m assuming the river actual Sea Level high point must be in excess of the gage readings ? Going back to the 1971 to 1973 time frame might not be easy to attain. Since the present daily readings are charted by the National Weather bureau Portland’s Office, that might be a good area to start at. I guess one of the main points I wanted to make is all these rivers in the general area have had numerous
Floods over the years I’ve lived here. Some people have posted about how small the Washougal River flow is but I’ve seem it flood and cause close to $100,000 damage to my Mother In Laws home which was right on the river !

Going back to the 1971 to 1973 time frame might not be easy to attain.

Why are we still chasing this dead issue? This was settled years ago but some people are just stubborn!

The guage people told us the data for 1971 to 1973 and before hit their cutoff - the data had been transferred to an archive maintained by the U of Wyoming and we could get the data there. Or, we could simply get data for those years (and before) from a nearby gauge station. I encountered a problem getting anything from the Wyoming archive (they weren't set up to give data to the public?), so I opted for data for those years from a nearby gauge station. And Robert rejected that.

It is what it is. 

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It’s great to quote a fisherman’s memory going back 50 years but that doesn’t make it factual ! I was delivering mail back in 1964 and the Great Christmas flood crested at 27.7 feet. I had a mail route in Milwaukee and the Willamette flooded about 1/3 of my route under water. Also in 1996, we had another flood that crested at 27.6 feet and caused huge damage in the hundreds of Millions as I recall. The 1964 Christmas floods led to quite a few deaths also. I witnessed mobile homes docked at the Sellwood Bridge area break loose and float down the Willamette. I was there in 1948 and witnessed the famous Vanport flood which crested at over 30 ft.as I recall. The river and Tina Bar Robert viewed in 2013 was a shadow of what it was in 1971.

Kermit,

I suspect you are relating "gage" readings and not distances above sea level.  And what gage are you referring to?  The Vancouver/Portland gage is located just off shore on the Vancouver side of the Columbia River and just a few hundred feet east of the I-5 bridge.

It is agreed that the Tina Bar area has a huge erosion problem.  But the aerial pictures from the early 1970s can be used to estimate that erosion.

Do you know of a source for the gage readings at Vancouver/Portland in the 1971 to 1973 time frame?  Also, can you clarify how the earlier readings were adjusted to put them in the WGS84 system?

Robert,
Yes I am giving a reading from the Portland/Vancouver gage which is right by the I 5 Bridge as you mentioned.
Since I’m seeing up to 24 readings in the negative, I’m assuming the river actual Sea Level high point must be in excess of the gage readings ? Going back to the 1971 to 1973 time frame might not be easy to attain. Since the present daily readings are charted by the National Weather bureau Portland’s Office, that might be a good area to start at. I guess one of the main points I wanted to make is all these rivers in the general area have had numerous
Floods over the years I’ve lived here. Some people have posted about how small the Washougal River flow is but I’ve seem it flood and cause close to $100,000 damage to my Mother In Laws home which was right on the river !

Going back to the 1971 to 1973 time frame might not be easy to attain.

Why are we still chasing this dead issue? This was settled years ago but some people are just stubborn!

The guage people told us the data for 1971 to 1973 and before hit their cutoff - the data had been transferred to an archive maintained by the U of Wyoming and we could get the data there. Or, we could simply get data for those years (and before) from a nearby gauge station. I encountered a problem getting anything from the Wyoming archive (they weren't set up to give data to the public?), so I opted for data for those years from a nearby gauge station. And Robert rejected that.

It is what it is. 

Georger,

Your reply above ain't what it is.  I have never seen any gage data from you or elsewhere from 1971-1973 that provided any useful information.  From about 1973 to the present, the online gage information is highly useful.  But nothing like that prior to 1973.

OK! whatever.  I will post it for Kermit in case he hasn't seen it. You turn your head away just to avoid contamination by facts!