Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 1101340 times)

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1545 on: March 29, 2019, 02:24:59 PM »
I've updated the page with my 8:12 Arc Theory by cleaning up some of the stats and adding three maps. Note that the maps were created by me, therefore they kind of suck.

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Cheers!
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1546 on: March 29, 2019, 02:56:04 PM »
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Putting speculation in the air Force is not a good idea. You are trying to go against hard evidence then use some of it?

The placard could of spun almost straight down or turned directions. You don't know what it did just as anyone else.

Are we to assume our country was in grave danger with the air Force not able to use two different radar systems?

The USAF actually did a placard/card drop study! There is a pdf but I didnt keep the url.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1547 on: March 29, 2019, 03:18:52 PM »
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I still find it odd that georger Harrison had faith in the air Force tracking as well as the commercial controllers. Data from the flight recorder, the sage radar to help pinpoint a location. Then you also have the pilots.

As I have mentioned. It's like video evidence. Lots of it from different sources. Nobody knows how the money got there so using it as fact shouldn't apply. It's very troubling but taking some of the evidence you reject is worse. You can't have it both ways.

I have never seen anything that actually describes what went into deriving the flight path other than "radar." Perhaps someone can show me something else.

Also, we don't know how it was done. Was it a series of calculations? Was it a recorded blip overlaying a map? Was it something else entirely? I don't know. Perhaps someone can explain precisely how the flight path was crafted.

Normally I would defer and say, "Yes, the flight path is correct." However, the one thing I cannot overlook is the physical evidence. Specifically, where the placard was found and where the money was found. These things can't be f'd up by someone making a mistake. Either the items were found where reported or they were not. Moreover, they must adhere to the laws of physics. The money couldn't flow 10 miles upstream. The placard can't drop straight down if the entire atmosphere it is dropping through is moving to the northeast at 30 knots.

If you believe the FBI got it all correct then we have it that Cooper landed in the search area. Okay, then how did the money end up on Tena Bar? Why has absolutely nothing been found in the search area? Why would Cooper jump into utter darkness dressed in a suit?

Believe it or not, the FBI, the Air Force, the guy who put the flight path together at the Air Force, Dr. Leonard Palmer, the president of the United States, me, you, all of us are capable of making mistakes. This does not mean that everything the FBI assumed or calculated was wrong. Rather, it simply means they may have messed up in this one area. Indeed, perhaps the flight from Seattle to Reno is 85% accurate, but the 15% that is slightly askew is the part we're all debating here.

Proud American and US Air Force notwithstanding, at some point I have to say "I'm not convinced that someone didn't make a mistake somewhere" with the flight path because what I do know, doesn't add up.


/I have never seen anything that actually describes what went into deriving the flight path other than "radar." Perhaps someone can show me something else./

The AF and NWO didnt produce a manual, video, or community college course you can take. Here were some of the people involved - most now deceased. You missed the main course which was on DZ 2008-09.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 03:23:20 PM by georger »
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1548 on: March 29, 2019, 03:22:15 PM »
V23 deviations ... a victor airway is eight miles wide ...  Thanks Farflung!
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1549 on: March 29, 2019, 03:24:26 PM »
More on V23 ...
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1550 on: March 29, 2019, 03:25:58 PM »
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I've updated the page with my 8:12 Arc Theory by cleaning up some of the stats and adding three maps. Note that the maps were created by me, therefore they kind of suck.

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Cheers!

If you really want to try to get a accurate account of what the actual weather conditions were on November 24: 1971, why do we seem to accept false information. I lived in Portland on that exact evening. As a 28 year Mailcarrier who always had a outdoor walking route, I can attest that the weather was nothing unusual for that time of the year in Portland or Seattle ! All the FBI and other witnesses statements are purely BS ! Let’s just go to both Portland and Seattle weather bureau reports for that date. The report says high of 51 and low of 44 ! Also wind at 9 MPH and precipitation of .19. These figures are actually almost exactly the average precipitation and temperatures range for that time of the year. I also saw it broken down by the hour on the wind velocity. It read 6 pm at 7 MPH and 9 pm at 10 MPH. HIGH WIND at 14 MPH ! I checked two two different weather services and they are almost identical as was Seattle. No snow ! No frigid temperatures! No high velocity winds ! When my wife came here to Washington from spending 37 years in Las Vegas, she would say “ It’s pouring outside “ ! I would have to correct her and tell her “ in Oregon and Washington, that is not called pouring.... it’s not even raining... it’s sprinkling outside “. My point is that different people see weather in all sort of opinions ! Let’s stick to the facts ! The weather on November 24,1971 was a normal day in the NORTHWEST!
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1551 on: March 29, 2019, 03:35:21 PM »
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I've updated the page with my 8:12 Arc Theory by cleaning up some of the stats and adding three maps. Note that the maps were created by me, therefore they kind of suck.

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Cheers!

If you really want to try to get a accurate account of what the actual weather conditions were on November 24: 1971, why do we seem to accept false information. I lived in Portland on that exact evening. As a 28 year Mailcarrier who always had a outdoor walking route, I can attest that the weather was nothing unusual for that time of the year in Portland or Seattle ! All the FBI and other witnesses statements are purely BS ! Let’s just go to both Portland and Seattle weather bureau reports for that date. The report says high of 51 and low of 44 ! Also wind at 9 MPH and precipitation of .19. These figures are actually almost exactly the average precipitation and temperatures range for that time of the year. I also saw it broken down by the hour on the wind velocity. It read 6 pm at 7 MPH and 9 pm at 10 MPH. HIGH WIND at 14 MPH ! I checked two two different weather services and they are almost identical as was Seattle. No snow ! No frigid temperatures! No high velocity winds ! When my wife came here to Washington from spending 37 years in Las Vegas, she would say “ It’s pouring outside “ ! I would have to correct her and tell her “ in Oregon and Washington, that is not called pouring.... it’s not even raining... it’s sprinkling outside “. My point is that different people see weather in all sort of opinions ! Let’s stick to the facts ! The weather on November 24,1971 was a normal day in the NORTHWEST!

Yes those were the ground conditions.

5000 feet along V23 ? ... 10,000 feet? Hominid's work was detailed. The FBI released ten pages of the WX data used to calculate the drop. Hom had access to those pages and interpolated them.

To some extent, the meandering (drift) of the flight path recounts the weather being encountered while the plane is being flown under highly loaded conditions. (wheels down, flaps down, etc)  Carrying a guy with a bomb who has been issuing his own sets of orders/requests! Now, put yourself in R2's shoes trying to predict where 305 is going to be for a T33 intercept south or somewhere southwest of PDX ... near Lake Oswego? The T33 wants to get a visual on 305 to assess the situation ... with the 305 having reported 'the subject may have left us' ?

This flight path looks like the path of a plane in distress vs some 'straight line non-deviating' flight path supposedly flown between Toledo and Canby. ?  Is this the difference between reality vs. fiction?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 04:06:39 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1552 on: March 29, 2019, 07:23:41 PM »
With a alternate path how can one state the jump time is real but the path is wrong?
Who is completely satisfied 8:12 is the golden jump time?
Where is the evidence suggesting multiple radar operators were all wrong at the same time?
Are we dismissing the 302's that line up with the path, the Air Force and Paul Solderlind, Lee, Harrison?
95% of the path is correct?
Were the pilots lacking instrumentation qualifications?
If the pilots failed to signal as they were suppose to and state they weren't sure Cooper left the plane are we to use 8:12 because.....?
Has everyone agreed to dismiss the easterly flight path Ralph and Jerry believe...skip it?
It's ok to fly around Seattle for a long period but unheard of to fly over a portion of Portland lasting approx. 2 minutes?

I like R99's theory, but believing it is another story. the pesky things above stop me. it appears to me (evidence wise) that they agreed that V23 was the route to take. we would have more radio chatter missing since no evidence can be found of 305 changing course or deviating from V23.

Quote
This flight path looks like the path of a plane in distress

Tom made a similar comment like this...

« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 07:36:40 PM by Shutter »
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1553 on: March 29, 2019, 07:34:59 PM »
Through all these discussions recently, I still have 8:13 pm in the back of my head. That's what Rataczak told me in 2009, and he was adamant and consistent throughout a 70-muinute conversation.

Just saying. Let's not get totally wedded to 8:12 pm.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 07:42:31 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1554 on: March 29, 2019, 07:40:16 PM »
Quote
Just saying. Let's not totally wedded to 8:12 pm.

Thi is similar to evidence with a suspect. some things are a must in order to work....it has to be...last time I checked, nobody really has a clue when he jumped.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 07:40:34 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1555 on: March 29, 2019, 07:57:48 PM »
I just plotted the GPS coordinates for the placard find and the FBI's flight path on that leg. What I discovered is that the placard was found 8/10ths of a mile (at it's closest) SW of the FBI flight path. Ironically, this is precisely into the wind head on. Simply put, the placard would have to leave the jet at this point on the FBI flight path and travel 8/10ths of a mile into the wind. How is this possible? Short answer, it isn't.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1556 on: March 29, 2019, 08:09:42 PM »
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I just plotted the GPS coordinates for the placard find and the FBI's flight path on that leg. What I discovered is that the placard was found 8/10ths of a mile (at it's closest) SW of the FBI flight path. Ironically, this is precisely into the wind head on. Simply put, the placard would have to leave the jet at this point on the FBI flight path and travel 8/10ths of a mile into the wind. How is this possible? Short answer, it isn't.

The flight path has a + - for error. I've forgotten how much but will find out shortly.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1557 on: March 30, 2019, 10:52:01 AM »
I'm on a job site that has a lift. I made some placards from a for sale sign. Very thin plastic. Have about out 10 mph wind. The card doesnt drift much. I am making some video of the test...
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 10:52:40 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1558 on: March 30, 2019, 11:47:42 AM »
Below is an image I mocked up displaying my 8:12 Arc Theory tolerances along with the FBI's flight path and 8:12 jump time displayed. (NOTE: I realize the FBI actually works with an 8:11 jump time on their map and builds tolerances around that point).

Also, while it's not obvious on this map, the placard find is .8 miles west--at its closest point--of the FBI flight path.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1559 on: March 30, 2019, 12:51:43 PM »
Placard update .I have done 3 tests so far. I first let the placard just drift and the next card I put a spin on it. The spin always goes straight down. Why wouldn't there be a chance of this happening 5 miles west?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 03:07:40 PM by Shutter »