I give R99 a lot of credit with his background and as a stable good person. however, I just can't come to a conclusion by going against so much to make this theory work. too many involved to have got this that far off.

we have several going against the known flight path but for some reason we don't have any issue's coming from all who were there, as in civilian members going against military findings. everyone seems to have agreed and it's people outside of this circle that are not convinced? nobody from Portland or Seatac disagreeing with the location of 305 on that evening to each other or to the military..traffic controllers saying they never left the boundaries of V23. as Tom stated to me, how can the first part of the path be good and the rest bad?

I need a whole lot more to make this theory plausible IMHO.

When I talked to R2 several times, he admitted that he looked away from his screen just as 305 crossed the Columbia; he was busy talking to the T33 and lining it up for a rendezvous with 305 'near Lake Oswego'. When he looked back at his screen 305 had crossed the Columbia and it was just slightly west of Portland, still on V23. The process of lining the T33 up to converge with 305 required R2 know with certainty where 305 was! I conveyed everything immediately to R99 ..   

Prior to my talk with R2 I will admit that R99 and I both were hoping R2 would say something to justify a fly-over of Tina Bay by 305. That did not happen! It did not happen three times! Then a fourth time at the next interview! Then a fifth time, and on and on and on ...  I was forced to accept the data at hand. There is just no way around it.

The only variable in question is the 'time' Cooper left the plane. That is the only variable the data in hand offers.

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I give R99 a lot of credit with his background and as a stable good person. however, I just can't come to a conclusion by going against so much to make this theory work. too many involved to have got this that far off.

we have several going against the known flight path but for some reason we don't have any issue's coming from all who were there, as in civilian members going against military findings. everyone seems to have agreed and it's people outside of this circle that are not convinced? nobody from Portland or Seatac disagreeing with the location of 305 on that evening to each other or to the military..traffic controllers saying they never left the boundaries of V23. as Tom stated to me, how can the first part of the path be good and the rest bad?

I need a whole lot more to make this theory plausible IMHO.

When I talked to R2 several times, he admitted that he looked away from his screen just as 305 crossed the Columbia; he was busy talking to the T33 and lining it up for a rendezvous with 305 'near Lake Oswego'. When he looked back at his screen 305 had crossed the Columbia and it was just slightly west of Portland, still on V23. The process of lining the T33 up to converge with 305 required R2 know with certainty where 305 was! I conveyed everything immediately to R99 ..   

Prior to my talk with R2 I will admit that R99 and I both were hoping R2 would say something to justify a fly-over of Tina Bay by 305. That did not happen! It did not happen three times! Then a fourth time at the next interview! Then a fifth time, and on and on and on ...  I was forced to accept the data at hand. There is just no way around it.

The only variable in question is the 'time' Cooper left the plane. That is the only variable the data in hand offers.

I find this particularly interesting considering that according to the official FBI flight path the jet never flew west of Portland. In fact, it flew right over the top of it and just EAST of downtown.

I posted a lot of my conclusion on here. I just never got around to recording the flight path from Seatac to Portland. I might have some flights still in the black box. I haven't cranked it up in a long time. I'm not sure a jump time can actually be calculated doing a simulation since we don't really have an accurate jump time other than what they have already done. some of the things they did are rather odd. the 8:16 to 8:17 marks are not like the map shows. it's a hard roll to the west as if they seen PDX or something and turned, I don't know but it's an odd move. you can see it on the video I posted several times here.

The plane was not flying just above stall speed. somewhere between 105 and 130 if not mistaken. the 727 was very stable at low speeds vs other commercial jets.

The Air Force made the map, so you are saying the Air Force got it wrong. George Harrison (NWO) got it wrong. air traffic controllers got it wrong. the C130 following the plane was wrong.

It's really not the FBI that you can blame any of this on? the only way to blame the FBI would be with a conspiracy.

The only planes having trouble remaining in the sky was the fighter jets.

at some point critical thought demands critical thought.

This is typically done when you don't have a conclusion. we have a shit load of evidence on the flight path you wish to dismiss. direct evidence from pilots, traffic controllers, the military.

prove to me Cooper was not a black female? I think they got it wrong!

The plane was not flying just above stall speed. somewhere between 105 and 130 if not mistaken. the 727 was very stable at low speeds vs other commercial jets.

The Air Force made the map, so you are saying the Air Force got it wrong. George Harrison (NWO) got it wrong. air traffic controllers got it wrong. the C130 following the plane was wrong.

It's really not the FBI that you can blame any of this on? the only way to blame the FBI would be with a conspiracy.

The only planes having trouble remaining in the sky was the fighter jets.

I understand how the flight path was put together. The term "FBI flight path" is commonly used and envelops all sources that led to its creation. That said, I'm not sure anyone like George Harrison carries any particular weight.

Let's un-pack this.

Did they get it wrong? Yes. Remember, it was this same data they also used to put together the plot points and 8:11PM jump spot which has to be wrong if he ended up in the Columbia. This is an irrefutable fact. And, if they can get this wrong by a factor of 20% why are they incapable of getting anything else wrong?

How was the flight path derived? According to the FBI, via Air Force radar. That's it.

Now we also have R2 in Portland who was tasked with organizing the chase planes and took his eyes off the jet for a period before he came back to it at which point he noticed the jet had already crossed the Columbia River and was "slightly west (Georger's words)" of Portland. The FBI flight path never shows the jet slightly west of Portland. In fact, it was on top of Portland and slightly EAST of downtown Portland center.

Where did the C-130 pick up the jet? I see there is one that picked it up in Southern Oregon which is obviously of no value here.

I do not use words like "conspiracy" because I do not believe it was a conspiracy. I believe it was a mistake.

Regarding the stall speed? R99 says that it flew just above stall speed and Rat stated that they were very concerned about ice build up on the wings given their slow speed. Yet the jet is entering hard turns to ensure it flies over as many people, and as dense a populated area, as possible?

Again, someone, got something wrong, somewhere.

slightly west = Tbar
Ice on wings means nothing. deicing was turned on.

You want to believe all hell broke loose looking away from a screen for a moment?

you guys win. the plane flew over Tbar...I give up.

No Shutter, this has been an outstanding discussion and illustrates some of the dilemmas in this case. Anyone who has read the last few days' comments walks away with a couple of pretty articulate arguments for the respective flight paths. At the end of the day, I've simply tried to explain why--in my mind--the FBI flight path doesn't pass the smell test.

Pieces of material with very low weight and lots of flat surface area (e.g. 727 placard) don't necessarily follow the normal ballistic drop trajectories.

How do I know? I once saw a fluttering candy bar wrapper in the air several thousand feet up as I descended in my parachute. It didn't come from prior jumpers as I was the first out on the first load of the day. I think there was a good possibility that it started out as ground litter, was picked up by the wind, got into some thermals and had been up there for some time.

I wonder if glider pilots occasionally see ground litter when circling in thermals?

I don't think there were thermals at night when Cooper made his jump, but a fluttering placard could have a very long hang time which means that winds aloft could take it a lot farther than a simple ballistic fall would lead you to expect.

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