Okay, Robb didn't spell it our as definitively as you might desire, and I didn't nail it down for the hard-to-convince reader.

Nevertheless, you do seem to be making the claim that there was significant wind chill on the stairs and that it impacted DB Cooper to a great degree, possibly making him dysfunctional.

No?

If so, then the onus seems to be on you to prove how much wind chill there was and how impactful is was, since all the people who hijacked 727s and walked down the aft stairs made it to the ground. So, if they did, how come DB Cooper didn't? Why were the weather conditions and Cooper's temperament such that he was a no-pull and all the others were not?

Claiming that the conditions were too tough for Cooper to be successful requires you to prove it, since a cursory view of the available information suggests that it wasn't too tough a jump, even in November at 22 degrees F.

Frankly, side comparisons to open-air cockpits, high-speed convertibles, and sticking a hand out a window while driving do not satisfy. You affirm your research status by saying you're a man of science. Okay, then, show us the science that explains both phenomena: Cooper's no-pull and everyone else's success, ie: LaPoint, McNally, et.al.

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There is no doubt that the jump could have been made successfully.  But for whatever reason(s), all available evidence and analysis indicates that he did not survive the jump and, in fact, could not have survived the jump for the money to end up at Tina Bar as it did.

R99:
Can you elaborate a bit on that last statement...Cooper could not have survived the jump for the money to end up at Tina Bar?  How so?  I know you've discussed it prior, please refresh my memory, I've been away again for a while.  Meyer

Meyer, there is nothing 'a priori' that requires some money being anywhere and he died. The mere fact some money is found anywhere does not mean he died, or did not die. He or somebody else could have lost some of the money in the drainage basin of the Columbia (a reasonable distance from T Bar) and it winds up at T_Bar. For a number of reasons many people believe the money was lost fairly near to Tina Bar ... but again that is a separate matter having nothing at all to do with whether he died or not, in the jump. And, some people who believe he bailed c.8:11 in the Ariel area believe the fact of money appearing on the Columbia means he survived the jump and lived to make his way back to Portland, then lost some of the money on the Vancouver side for some reason.

But, there are no logical imperatives in this, so far as I know. I mean no 'causal imperatives'; dying vs not dying vs money found at any location.

 

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There is no doubt that the jump could have been made successfully.  But for whatever reason(s), all available evidence and analysis indicates that he did not survive the jump and, in fact, could not have survived the jump for the money to end up at Tina Bar as it did.

R99:
Can you elaborate a bit on that last statement...Cooper could not have survived the jump for the money to end up at Tina Bar?  How so?  I know you've discussed it prior, please refresh my memory, I've been away again for a while.  Meyer

Meyer, there is nothing 'a priori' that requires some money being anywhere and he died. The mere fact some money is found anywhere does not mean he died, or did not die. He or somebody else could have lost some of the money in the drainage basin of the Columbia (a reasonable distance from T Bar) and it winds up at T_Bar. For a number of reasons many people believe the money was lost fairly near to Tina Bar ... but again that is a separate matter having nothing at all to do with whether he died or not, in the jump. And, some people who believe he bailed c.8:11 in the Ariel area believe the fact of money appearing on the Columbia means he survived the jump and lived to make his way back to Portland, then lost some of the money on the Vancouver side for some reason.

But, there are no logical imperatives in this, so far as I know. I mean no 'causal imperatives'; dying vs not dying vs money found at any location.

 

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That was my thinking too, Georger.  However, we spent a whole day on the Travel Channel shoot at Tina Bar, on the Columbia River last August, testing R99's theory.  I have great respect for R99, I learned a lot more about his theory on the Expedition Unknown shoot, and I would certainly want to let him have the floor to elaborate further.

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It's all speculation. we are to assume that Cooper knew exactly when to go down the stairs to see the lights from the dam? he gives no indication to timing anything. how would he have known they would fly close to it anyway? then of course the cloud coverage.

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My contention is that Cooper had no indication of timing anything, he had no idea of when or where he was going to jump, and he didn't even care.  I remember discussion on the DZ Forum about Tina helping Cooper get the aft stairs to go down.  Tina gave no indication that Cooper was agitated, irritated, or panicked about the situation.  In fact, he seemed cool, calm, and collected.  Some people thought Cooper's original intention was to jump as soon as possible after leaving Seattle -- like around Tacoma (which is close to McChord AFB) or Olympia.  Getting the aft stairs to deploy took longer than expected.  No big deal, Cooper wasn't even annoyed.  Tina didn't indicate he seemed rushed about anything -- he got agitated in Seattle when the fueling took so long, that's pretty much it.  When he was cutting parachute chord and strapping the money bag to his waist, Tina didn't say he seemed rushed or panicked.  Either this guy had nerves of steel and ice running through his veins, or he was specially trained to do this sort of thing -- like a special ops, creme de la creme, CIA ops, Navy Seals kind of guy -- or both.  For him, it was just another day at the office.

As for using the lights of Vancouver as his guide -- that seems pretty far-fetched.  With all that cloud cover (I was there that night, remember -- lots of rain and clouds for sure), the Vancouver lights would have done little to help him pinpoint a drop zone -- he could have landed anywhere -- on I-5, on someone's roof, in the River, on the north end of Vancouver, or the south end -- where?.  On that night, he couldn't have known anything with any certainty.

Why wasn't he worried about when and where he would actually jump?  He didn't seem to be overly concerned about those matters.  Possible explanation: he had lots of help on the ground, several pickup points along V-23 -- it didn't really matter where he jumped out -- help was only a stone's throw away.  Was he a hired hand?   Did he grow old in the witness protection program?  A possibility -- why not?

Georger   You say: "Meyer, under this scenario above, how do you account for the money near Vancouver at Tina Bar?"

I would like to add that the find of the money at Tina Bar and the Father Dwayne directing his son exactly where to smooth the sand for the beach fire is a little suspect when you view the History Channel interview of Dwayne. His shifty eyes and the explanation about where to look on the whole beach and then to uncover the DB money there, leaves me to believe it is a made up story by Dwayne. I think DB Gave Dwayne the money the night of Norjak to finish his get-away to PDX from where DB landed after his jump. Then Dwayne made a place on the beach for his son to find the money and get a little fame and prove it was from SB's loot. That could explane the shifty eyes and the find exactly where the money was planted.

Bob Sailshaw
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It's all speculation. we are to assume that Cooper knew exactly when to go down the stairs to see the lights from the dam? he gives no indication to timing anything. how would he have known they would fly close to it anyway? then of course the cloud coverage.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

My contention is that Cooper had no indication of timing anything, he had no idea of when or where he was going to jump, and he didn't even care.  I remember discussion on the DZ Forum about Tina helping Cooper get the aft stairs to go down.  Tina gave no indication that Cooper was agitated, irritated, or panicked about the situation.  In fact, he seemed cool, calm, and collected.  Some people thought Cooper's original intention was to jump as soon as possible after leaving Seattle -- like around Tacoma (which is close to McChord AFB) or Olympia.  Getting the aft stairs to deploy took longer than expected.  No big deal, Cooper wasn't even annoyed.  Tina didn't indicate he seemed rushed about anything -- he got agitated in Seattle when the fueling took so long, that's pretty much it.  When he was cutting parachute chord and strapping the money bag to his waist, Tina didn't say he seemed rushed or panicked.  Either this guy had nerves of steel and ice running through his veins, or he was specially trained to do this sort of thing -- like a special ops, creme de la creme, CIA ops, Navy Seals kind of guy -- or both.  For him, it was just another day at the office.

As for using the lights of Vancouver as his guide -- that seems pretty far-fetched.  With all that cloud cover (I was there that night, remember -- lots of rain and clouds for sure), the Vancouver lights would have done little to help him pinpoint a drop zone -- he could have landed anywhere -- on I-5, on someone's roof, in the River, on the north end of Vancouver, or the south end -- where?.  On that night, he couldn't have known anything with any certainty.

Why wasn't he worried about when and where he would actually jump?  He didn't seem to be overly concerned about those matters.  Possible explanation: he had lots of help on the ground, several pickup points along V-23 -- it didn't really matter where he jumped out -- help was only a stone's throw away.  Was he a hired hand?   Did he grow old in the witness protection program?  A possibility -- why not?