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The FBI still maintains that Cooper died in the jump despite any evidence that happened. It is likewise a fact that no major researcher or book writer has addressed this issue at all! That includes Tom Kaye, Geoff Gray, Bruce Smith or anyone else you could name....

You got me thinking, G. Perhaps I'll add an "afterword" to the hard copy edition that I am preparing for POD at Amazon - it should be ready in about two weeks.

Simply, I will say that I think:

1. Cooper made it, was probably SOG or SF and well-trained for the rigors of the entire operation: ie: sitting on a plane for three hours with folks he said he was prepared to kill, jumping at night in the rain and cold.

2. Probably had an extraction team, also made of SOG guys - this would explain how nothing has been found - no body, chute, bomb, briefcase, etc. It all got cleaned up.

Bruce, since there is no way at all that Cooper could have known his location when he jumped, and neither could his "extraction" crew, just exactly where was the clean up?

Would a well trained military soldier do the things Cooper did?

1) The clothing.
2) The chute selection (fronts)
3) The lack of any type of flight plan


McCoy was military, and did it the way it should have been done. I think there is a noticeable separation between the two.

I am not sure McCoy is even relevant. We dont even know who (and what) DB Cooper was. We do know that Cooper inspected the chutes. He did take pains to fabricate a line to attach the money container and tied it around his waste (WWII paratrooper style?). We have several reports of some stranger walking out of the drop area with 'luggage'. The assertion he didn't know where he was may be irrelevant. He assumed they were headed south from Seattle, over the State of Washington; time spent aloft alone dictates he is still in the State of Washington headed south. He prepared to bail quickly after takeoff, which had FBI claiming he intended to bail just outside Seattle! We know that his chute will accommodate a bailout at 160knots. We know that his money appeared at Vancouver!

His dress seems to be the weak point?

No body or parachute or anything else has ever been found in spite of hundreds of people looking for it annually for years. But, his money turns up just west of I5 and the RR bridge at Vancouver, across from Portland where he originally boarded.
     

I believe McCoy is relevant to an extent. his military record was known, and I keep reading that many speak of Cooper possibly being military. I'm just not so sure about that. it's all speculation since we don't have any background on Cooper, but the case is full of speculation.

You would think someone in the military would be on top of everything, especially the points of where, and when to jump. he never asked anything. people claim he could of had a watch, but that is limited. McCoy flew the plane, not the pilots. Cooper said, go to Mexico. no updates, nothing. he just vanished.

I believe McCoy is relevant to an extent. his military record was known, and I keep reading that many speak of Cooper possibly being military. I'm just not so sure about that. it's all speculation since we don't have any background on Cooper, but the case is full of speculation.

You would think someone in the military would be on top of everything, especially the points of where, and when to jump. he never asked anything. people claim he could of had a watch, but that is limited. McCoy flew the plane, not the pilots. Cooper said, go to Mexico. no updates, nothing. he just vanished.

C'mon, Shut - ya gotta tell us what you believe! Do you think DB Cooper knew he was south of Seattle? On V-23? North of Portland?

What is your image of a well-dressed SF skyjacker? What does someone who is "on top of everything" look like? How do they function during a skyjacking? Why do they do it that way? Do you think a commando needs to ask directions during an operation?

I think it is useful to view Norjak as a well-planned, well-executed covert op. Think Seals. Think Mossad. Think Super SOG. What kinds of questions - if any - would those kinds of guys be asking Rataczak, et al?

I would be surprised if they would need to ask any questions at all.

As for McCoy, I recall you said here the last time we were talking about McCoy and his visit to Las Vegas on Nov 23-25, 1971, that you though McCoy was most likely honky-tonking in Sin City. But if you were planning to skyjack a 727 five months later, would you use the opportunities presented by the events of Nov 23-25 to further your education?

That of course, begs the question: did McCoy know Cooper. Ahhhh...that is the rub. isn't it.

A related question:

How fast could an extraction team respond to Cooper?

Also, how much time would they need for a successful getaway?

We know they did have a fair amount of time. The earliest reported aerial searching was mid-morning on T-day, so Cooper and his team had about 12 hours before Himmelsbach flew anywhere near LZ-A. I'm not sure when the helos deployed, but I don't think it was Thanksgiving Day, and Himms and others say the LZ A was not confirmed until Thursday PM. The FBI and LE didn't have any helos at their disposal, so had to get them from the Oregon NG and local WA timber companies, and I get the sense that they weren't ready until late Thursday at the earliest, and then the weather shut them down, except for a few sporadic breaks over the next day or two. And of course we know that the ground teams didn't begin to go into LZ-A until Friday afternoon.

So, if the extraction teams had to re-position themselves 50-100 miles before they could rendezvous with Cooper, it seems plausible they were able to do so before anyone had eyes on them.

My Favorite Fantasy
In my world, the best place for an extraction team to wait for DB Cooper was at McChord AB, either by having an inside guy at the SAGE screens, or an operative at the coffee pot with donuts.....

...so, they would know where Coop may have been as early as 9 pm, and then they only had to drive a couple hours to get him. Unless SAGE couldn't have located him, which is another problem.

Of course, the getaway guys could have waited at the pub in Amboy and waited for Danny to signal them on the way down, and then they just had to follow their homing signals.

Cooper an idiot? possibly...fool, dumb-ass, careless, thoughtless, self centered...probably a dozen more could fit him other than "idiot"

So, Shut, I sense that you are more comfortable thinking of Cooper as a fool or careless than a master criminal, and have a hard time accepting him as a military operative.

Am I correct in this assessment?

Interesting conversation.

If the FBI really believed Cooper died in the jump, they would have been focused on finding a body or a missing person. 

They found neither to their satisfaction.

But, if that really, really, really was what they believed, the names Dick Lepsy and Mel Wilson would have crossed their desk.  Sure, Lepsy disappeared years before, and Wilson was a fugitive, but they can't be ignored just for that.  After all, wasn't it in last days of DZ that someone posted a list of all known missing persons around that time somewhat fitting the description and there were only about twelve of them?

I have to wonder if the FBI theory that "Cooper died in the jump" was a bit of a CYA when asked why they hadn't found him yet.

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Bruce, since there is no way at all that Cooper could have known his location when he jumped, and neither could his "extraction" crew, just exactly where was the clean up?

"No way...?" You're painting with a very broad brush, here R99, and one with a lot of dried paint on it.  Let's go back to basics:

1. Did Cooper know he was flying south?
2. Did Cooper know he was flying in V-23?

I say yes to both, so I would say that Cooper (and his team) had a rough idea of where they were, at the least.

Now, let's add in probable and possibilities.

1. Did Cooper have tech comparable to his knowledge of the 727 and his jump metrics? I say probably yes. If he was SF and was trained to do DB Cooper-esque stuff, he probably had tech that would allow him to be tracked by his people, possibly even communicate directly with them. These parameters then allow for a full range of scenarios to develop for contact and extraction.

Remember, Cooper's knowledge of the 727 and its jumping requirements was top-secret level. Hence, it would be reasonable to assume that his knowledge in other areas would be comparable, along with the communication tech, and the quality of his extraction team and their vehicles.

Was his knowledge absolute and complete? Nope. He didn't know how to deploy the stairs. But his overall knowledge and capacities seem to have been enormous.

Bruce he may have assumed they were flying south-ish but he may not have known the route. One thing that does seem clear is he intended to bail early, and had the door problem not come up he might have bailed earlier than he did. But he definitely was prepared to bail asap out of Seattle, with the assumed direction south. 

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Cooper an idiot? possibly...fool, dumb-ass, careless, thoughtless, self centered...probably a dozen more could fit him other than "idiot"

So, Shut, I sense that you are more comfortable thinking of Cooper as a fool or careless than a master criminal, and have a hard time accepting him as a military operative.

Am I correct in this assessment?

How about someplace in the middle between these extremes?