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When the DNA testing is discussed in the 302s, they defined:
Q40=Tie
Q41=Tie Clip

They then use the phrase "Q40/Q41 combined for analysis"

Does that mean that whatever sample they swabbed from each item was combined into a single DNA test ?  As opposed to running an individual DNA test on each item/swab separately ? Or does it just mean that the results are combined in the report for analysis ?

Note that they had enough DNA data to make an entry into CODIS.  That should be enough information for DNA specialists such as CeCe Moore and Parablon to see if they can make some headway with it.

How much data must you have before the Codis People let you in ? A bucket or a car or truck load ?

In this day and age, I think it is less than what is visible to the naked eye.

About ten months ago I communicated with CeCe Moore after joining her Facebook group and her reaching out to me.  She was very helpful.  Here is what I remember from the conversation and from other things I had researched.

1.  The DNA we send to Ancestry or 23 and me or GEDmatch are in a specific format, and are full profiles.  So the average person can't just take a little DNA and send it into one of those companies and then start searching ancestors.  I guess it is possible that the companies have some algorithm they can use on a partial.  The Golden State Killer folks had a full sample and as I remember, they sent it in under a false name.  CeCe uses those sites to track down relatives, as have others, to include myself.  It is kind of fun, but takes a lot of time.  I got a DNA match to a friend's father.  We show as 8th cousins or something, so I was actually related to someone I knew, but to track back that far is a huge undertaking.  Not to mention that that side of the family was in Russia and Ukraine during WWII and many perished.  There was a recent case that was solved with the help of some 18 year old college student that used 6th cousins.  Possible, but difficult. 

2.  Parbon, which CeCe works for or is affiliated with can do quite a bit with DNA, and I don't think they have the same constraints as Ancestry, 23 and me, etc.  I think these are the folks that do the facial reconstruction from samples.

My observation/opinion is that if the FBI would give all the samples to Parabon, that they could get us going in the right direction.  There are labs now that can take partial DNA in one format and determine what another format would be. Almost like translating French into German.  This is the STR and SNP type DNA stuff.  I believe that even with a partial DNA profile, that a company like Ancestry could rule out a lot of samples.  Our biggest roadblock right now is actually getting the FBI samples.

I would envision something like this.  FBI gives the samples to a lab, they get data from GEDMatch, which is open to the public, and then they start ruling out groups of people.  Then someone takes that and is able to start ruling out mass numbers of people.  There are issues though in that we don't know if Cooper's DNA is mixed with others.  We'd have to rule out all the agents that handled the tie.

Long and short, I've seen some amazing things done with computers. It is possible. I just don't know if the legalities are there yet for us.

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When the DNA testing is discussed in the 302s, they defined:
Q40=Tie
Q41=Tie Clip

They then use the phrase "Q40/Q41 combined for analysis"

Does that mean that whatever sample they swabbed from each item was combined into a single DNA test ?  As opposed to running an individual DNA test on each item/swab separately ? Or does it just mean that the results are combined in the report for analysis ?

Note that they had enough DNA data to make an entry into CODIS.  That should be enough information for DNA specialists such as CeCe Moore and Parablon to see if they can make some headway with it.

How much data must you have before the Codis People let you in ? A bucket or a car or truck load ?

In this day and age, I think it is less than what is visible to the naked eye.

About ten months ago I communicated with CeCe Moore after joining her Facebook group and her reaching out to me.  She was very helpful.  Here is what I remember from the conversation and from other things I had researched.

1.  The DNA we send to Ancestry or 23 and me or GEDmatch are in a specific format, and are full profiles.  So the average person can't just take a little DNA and send it into one of those companies and then start searching ancestors.  I guess it is possible that the companies have some algorithm they can use on a partial.  The Golden State Killer folks had a full sample and as I remember, they sent it in under a false name.  CeCe uses those sites to track down relatives, as have others, to include myself.  It is kind of fun, but takes a lot of time.  I got a DNA match to a friend's father.  We show as 8th cousins or something, so I was actually related to someone I knew, but to track back that far is a huge undertaking.  Not to mention that that side of the family was in Russia and Ukraine during WWII and many perished.  There was a recent case that was solved with the help of some 18 year old college student that used 6th cousins.  Possible, but difficult. 

2.  Parbon, which CeCe works for or is affiliated with can do quite a bit with DNA, and I don't think they have the same constraints as Ancestry, 23 and me, etc.  I think these are the folks that do the facial reconstruction from samples.

My observation/opinion is that if the FBI would give all the samples to Parabon, that they could get us going in the right direction.  There are labs now that can take partial DNA in one format and determine what another format would be. Almost like translating French into German.  This is the STR and SNP type DNA stuff.  I believe that even with a partial DNA profile, that a company like Ancestry could rule out a lot of samples.  Our biggest roadblock right now is actually getting the FBI samples.

I would envision something like this.  FBI gives the samples to a lab, they get data from GEDMatch, which is open to the public, and then they start ruling out groups of people.  Then someone takes that and is able to start ruling out mass numbers of people.  There are issues though in that we don't know if Cooper's DNA is mixed with others.  We'd have to rule out all the agents that handled the tie.

Long and short, I've seen some amazing things done with computers. It is possible. I just don't know if the legalities are there yet for us.

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When the DNA testing is discussed in the 302s, they defined:
Q40=Tie
Q41=Tie Clip

They then use the phrase "Q40/Q41 combined for analysis"

Does that mean that whatever sample they swabbed from each item was combined into a single DNA test ?  As opposed to running an individual DNA test on each item/swab separately ? Or does it just mean that the results are combined in the report for analysis ?

Note that they had enough DNA data to make an entry into CODIS.  That should be enough information for DNA specialists such as CeCe Moore and Parablon to see if they can make some headway with it.

How much data must you have before the Codis People let you in ? A bucket or a car or truck load ?

In this day and age, I think it is less than what is visible to the naked eye.

About ten months ago I communicated with CeCe Moore after joining her Facebook group and her reaching out to me.  She was very helpful.  Here is what I remember from the conversation and from other things I had researched.

1.  The DNA we send to Ancestry or 23 and me or GEDmatch are in a specific format, and are full profiles.  So the average person can't just take a little DNA and send it into one of those companies and then start searching ancestors.  I guess it is possible that the companies have some algorithm they can use on a partial.  The Golden State Killer folks had a full sample and as I remember, they sent it in under a false name.  CeCe uses those sites to track down relatives, as have others, to include myself.  It is kind of fun, but takes a lot of time.  I got a DNA match to a friend's father.  We show as 8th cousins or something, so I was actually related to someone I knew, but to track back that far is a huge undertaking.  Not to mention that that side of the family was in Russia and Ukraine during WWII and many perished.  There was a recent case that was solved with the help of some 18 year old college student that used 6th cousins.  Possible, but difficult. 

2.  Parbon, which CeCe works for or is affiliated with can do quite a bit with DNA, and I don't think they have the same constraints as Ancestry, 23 and me, etc.  I think these are the folks that do the facial reconstruction from samples.

My observation/opinion is that if the FBI would give all the samples to Parabon, that they could get us going in the right direction.  There are labs now that can take partial DNA in one format and determine what another format would be. Almost like translating French into German.  This is the STR and SNP type DNA stuff.  I believe that even with a partial DNA profile, that a company like Ancestry could rule out a lot of samples.  Our biggest roadblock right now is actually getting the FBI samples.

I would envision something like this.  FBI gives the samples to a lab, they get data from GEDMatch, which is open to the public, and then they start ruling out groups of people.  Then someone takes that and is able to start ruling out mass numbers of people.  There are issues though in that we don't know if Cooper's DNA is mixed with others.  We'd have to rule out all the agents that handled the tie.

Long and short, I've seen some amazing things done with computers. It is possible. I just don't know if the legalities are there yet for us.

Fcastle, for my own edification, can you or CeCe Moore provide an approximate cost for a DNA check?  It is assumed that everything would have to be done in concert with the FBI and DNA professionals.

Robert: I wish I could.  I have not chatted with her in a while. I think NickyB is in touch with her still.  I think EU did some actual DNA testing for Sheridan and it cost a good amount.  That was to compare samples though.  I'm guessing one of those two can steer you in the right direction.  If no luck, then I can try to email her again.  To clarify, you'd want to know how much it would cost to take the DNA that the FBI has and make a profile? Or to compare a suspect's DNA to that of the FBI?

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When the DNA testing is discussed in the 302s, they defined:
Q40=Tie
Q41=Tie Clip

They then use the phrase "Q40/Q41 combined for analysis"

Does that mean that whatever sample they swabbed from each item was combined into a single DNA test ?  As opposed to running an individual DNA test on each item/swab separately ? Or does it just mean that the results are combined in the report for analysis ?

Note that they had enough DNA data to make an entry into CODIS.  That should be enough information for DNA specialists such as CeCe Moore and Parablon to see if they can make some headway with it.

How much data must you have before the Codis People let you in ? A bucket or a car or truck load ?

In this day and age, I think it is less than what is visible to the naked eye.

About ten months ago I communicated with CeCe Moore after joining her Facebook group and her reaching out to me.  She was very helpful.  Here is what I remember from the conversation and from other things I had researched.

1.  The DNA we send to Ancestry or 23 and me or GEDmatch are in a specific format, and are full profiles.  So the average person can't just take a little DNA and send it into one of those companies and then start searching ancestors.  I guess it is possible that the companies have some algorithm they can use on a partial.  The Golden State Killer folks had a full sample and as I remember, they sent it in under a false name.  CeCe uses those sites to track down relatives, as have others, to include myself.  It is kind of fun, but takes a lot of time.  I got a DNA match to a friend's father.  We show as 8th cousins or something, so I was actually related to someone I knew, but to track back that far is a huge undertaking.  Not to mention that that side of the family was in Russia and Ukraine during WWII and many perished.  There was a recent case that was solved with the help of some 18 year old college student that used 6th cousins.  Possible, but difficult. 

2.  Parbon, which CeCe works for or is affiliated with can do quite a bit with DNA, and I don't think they have the same constraints as Ancestry, 23 and me, etc.  I think these are the folks that do the facial reconstruction from samples.

My observation/opinion is that if the FBI would give all the samples to Parabon, that they could get us going in the right direction.  There are labs now that can take partial DNA in one format and determine what another format would be. Almost like translating French into German.  This is the STR and SNP type DNA stuff.  I believe that even with a partial DNA profile, that a company like Ancestry could rule out a lot of samples.  Our biggest roadblock right now is actually getting the FBI samples.

I would envision something like this.  FBI gives the samples to a lab, they get data from GEDMatch, which is open to the public, and then they start ruling out groups of people.  Then someone takes that and is able to start ruling out mass numbers of people.  There are issues though in that we don't know if Cooper's DNA is mixed with others.  We'd have to rule out all the agents that handled the tie.

Long and short, I've seen some amazing things done with computers. It is possible. I just don't know if the legalities are there yet for us.

what are you defining as a full profile? The unidentified fbi doc mentions 9 loci. [ I think the kit used tests for 15 loci - CODIS is 19 ?]

My apologies, FBI document part 67, page 52:

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Here is a link from FBI regarding minimum requirements for CODIS (NDIS) entry:

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Here is an excerpt regarding minimum requirement--(the document also specifies the CODIS CORE LOCI.)

20. What are the minimum loci requirements for the STR DNA data submitted to NDIS?
The minimum CODIS Core Loci required for submission of DNA data to NDIS vary by specimen category. Generally, the CODIS Core Loci are required for submission of convicted offender, arrestee, detainee, and legal profiles. The CODIS Core Loci and Amelogenin are required for relatives of missing person profiles.
 
All CODIS Core Loci must be attempted for other specimen categories with the following limited exceptions:
 
For forensic DNA profiles, all CODIS Core Loci must be attempted but at least 8 of the original CODIS Core Loci combined with a match rarity of at least one in ten million are required for submission to and searching at NDIS.
For Missing Person and Unidentified Human Remains, all CODIS Core Loci must be attempted.

I’m friends with Dr. Coleen Fitzpatrick, the inventor of forensic genealogy. So is Tom Kaye. I also have another good friend involved in that field.  She told me that if I could get her Cooper DNA, that the work would be pro bono.

The rub is getting Cooper DNA.

As Gryder covers in great detail, the FBI had reason to CYA, which probably explains their claimed "evidence" of McCoy being at home. Today, no evidence. Zero. Where did it go? Oops. The only remaining/extant/verifiable piece of evidence from the FBI files was the sister-in-law's deposition, which she now denies (because her sister died and no longer needs family protection). It's all too obvious.

Mc Coy's sister in law now says they were gone for 4 days, and the kids confirm they were babysat for 4 days over Thanksgiving. All too obvious. Unless all three of them are flat-out lying. Yes, possible. Probable? Not in my estimation. Especially after watching their confession on video. If those kids are lying on the Gryder video, I would be shocked. I sense no pretense. Zero. I sense honesty, contriteness, and two kids finally able to get it off their souls.   

So, yes, I absolutely believe the sister and 2 kids rather than 50 year old missing "evidence" that probably never existed in the first place.

Enjoy the hunt, but in my mind, it's McCoy. Heck, he did the same freaking highjacking on another flight (!!!) and the myriad parallels between the two flights are irrefutably the same methods.