Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1782880 times)

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7185 on: September 05, 2021, 12:36:00 PM »
Pic of John Kirkley with Air America in 1966
from Smokejumper magazine Jan 2014 page 30

available at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
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article starts page 28

Summer Job As A Smokejumper Prepared Northport Native For A Life Of Adventure
by Delbert Reed
(Copyright 2013, the Northport Gazette, Northport AL)
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7186 on: September 05, 2021, 02:37:43 PM »
Snowmman, one of the people mentioned in your posts above is on this thread and has been in touch with a number of people here, probably including yourself and 377.  I strongly suspect that there will be some information available soon, maybe before the end of this month, that will be the booster shot that moves the Cooper investigation a long way down the road.  This individual has done his homework!
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7187 on: September 05, 2021, 03:33:43 PM »
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Snowmman, one of the people mentioned in your posts above is on this thread and has been in touch with a number of people here, probably including yourself and 377.  I strongly suspect that there will be some information available soon, maybe before the end of this month, that will be the booster shot that moves the Cooper investigation a long way down the road.  This individual has done his homework!

okay.
What might be the info focused on?
flight path, tena bar, probable jump location, tena bar bills/rubber band decomposition, knowledge of 727, knowledge of prior 727 jumps, tie evidence (titanium, tobacoo resideue etc), tie clip evidence, smoking, bourbon, skydiving experience, speech used, physical description of cooper, selection of the alias "dan cooper", knowledge of tacoma etc, knowledge of 727 flaps etc, knowledge of filing flight path,

??
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 03:34:29 PM by snowmman »
 
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7188 on: September 05, 2021, 03:46:18 PM »
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Snowmman, one of the people mentioned in your posts above is on this thread and has been in touch with a number of people here, probably including yourself and 377.  I strongly suspect that there will be some information available soon, maybe before the end of this month, that will be the booster shot that moves the Cooper investigation a long way down the road.  This individual has done his homework!

okay.
What might be the info focused on?
flight path, tena bar, probable jump location, tena bar bills/rubber band decomposition, knowledge of 727, knowledge of prior 727 jumps, tie evidence (titanium, tobacoo resideue etc), tie clip evidence, smoking, bourbon, skydiving experience, speech used, physical description of cooper, selection of the alias "dan cooper", knowledge of tacoma etc, knowledge of 727 flaps etc, knowledge of filing flight path,

??

We all will just have to be patient for a bit longer.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7189 on: September 05, 2021, 04:03:21 PM »
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Snowmman, one of the people mentioned in your posts above is on this thread and has been in touch with a number of people here, probably including yourself and 377.  I strongly suspect that there will be some information available soon, maybe before the end of this month, that will be the booster shot that moves the Cooper investigation a long way down the road.  This individual has done his homework!

okay.
What might be the info focused on?
flight path, tena bar, probable jump location, tena bar bills/rubber band decomposition, knowledge of 727, knowledge of prior 727 jumps, tie evidence (titanium, tobacoo resideue etc), tie clip evidence, smoking, bourbon, skydiving experience, speech used, physical description of cooper, selection of the alias "dan cooper", knowledge of tacoma etc, knowledge of 727 flaps etc, knowledge of filing flight path,

??

We all will just have to be patient for a bit longer.

and a bit longer after that! and a bit longer after that! and a bit longer after that! and a bit longer after that!  ...  Josh Gates &  Company ...Discovery+ Channel summer 2036. Subscribe today.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 04:20:48 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7190 on: September 05, 2021, 04:05:11 PM »
FJ says -   
I haven't been able to sort out the McChord chutes, I assume they asked McChord but they didn't have them, refused or made an excuse.

NEW for FJ.

MCChord chutes were cancelled by Command.   

Suggest Snow search this! Dawson is deceased..
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 04:16:15 PM by georger »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7191 on: September 05, 2021, 04:28:18 PM »
I'm still comparing my fbi serial list to check six, about 7300 compared

but in any case, this histogram is probably accurate enough right now to look at.
distribution of districts (first letter in serial)

check six said 87% start with L, but that doesn't seem right
here's what I see right now.

A   74  0.74%
B  331  3.31%
C   44  0.44%
D  153  1.53%
E  320  3.20%
F  120  1.20%
G  527  5.27%
H  105  1.05%
I  236  2.36%
J  340  3.40%
K  175  1.75%
L 7573 75.75%
total 9998


26 of the 34 FBI pages have bills that start with L.

So  with respect to my comment about having 7 auctioned bills on the same FBI page, and having two bills from that page that are successive in the FBI sorted list, being odd, still holds, I think.

343 total star notes.

343/9998 is 3.4% which is in line with an expected distribution of circulated star notes vs regular notes. ("expected" depends on how you want to calculate it, but around 4% is what I was thinking seems right, compared to what BEP printed)
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 04:30:49 PM by snowmman »
 
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7192 on: September 05, 2021, 05:00:39 PM »
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I'm still comparing my fbi serial list to check six, about 7300 compared

but in any case, this histogram is probably accurate enough right now to look at.
distribution of districts (first letter in serial)

check six said 87% start with L, but that doesn't seem right
here's what I see right now.

A   74  0.74%
B  331  3.31%
C   44  0.44%
D  153  1.53%
E  320  3.20%
F  120  1.20%
G  527  5.27%
H  105  1.05%
I  236  2.36%
J  340  3.40%
K  175  1.75%
L 7573 75.75%
total 9998


26 of the 34 FBI pages have bills that start with L.

So  with respect to my comment about having 7 auctioned bills on the same FBI page, and having two bills from that page that are successive in the FBI sorted list, being odd, still holds, I think.

343 total star notes.

343/9998 is 3.4% which is in line with an expected distribution of circulated star notes vs regular notes. ("expected" depends on how you want to calculate it, but around 4% is what I was thinking seems right, compared to what BEP printed)


I did the same distribution analysis for the list of serials that I know of from the Tena Bar find (I'm trying to get the full list from PCGS that they certified, and maybe that they saw from a list the FBI had? no progress yet.). I'm using some numbers FLYJACK said he gathered, but from unknown sources...but I'm assuming he's correct on those. 30 serials have pictures at historical.ha.com

there's 63 serials I know of to date (auctioned serials plus some others).

interestingly, the overall distribution of found/known serials is in line with the overall distribution of total cooper bills...
(another distribution to check would be the year series. Even checking the distribution of numbers might be interesting)


A    0  0.00%
B    1  1.59%
C    1  1.59%
D    0  0.00%
E    2  3.17%
F    1  1.59%
G    4  6.35%
H    1  1.59%
I    3  4.76%
J    2  3.17%
K    1  1.59%
L   47 74.60%

« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 05:31:04 PM by snowmman »
 
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7193 on: September 05, 2021, 05:28:12 PM »
another random comparision

2972 out of 9998  bills start with L3  i.e. 29.7%

15 out of 63 known tena bar serials start with L3 23.8%

interesting those are in line with each other
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7194 on: September 05, 2021, 05:31:03 PM »
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Snowmman, one of the people mentioned in your posts above is on this thread and has been in touch with a number of people here, probably including yourself and 377.  I strongly suspect that there will be some information available soon, maybe before the end of this month, that will be the booster shot that moves the Cooper investigation a long way down the road.  This individual has done his homework!

okay.
What might be the info focused on?
flight path, tena bar, probable jump location, tena bar bills/rubber band decomposition, knowledge of 727, knowledge of prior 727 jumps, tie evidence (titanium, tobacoo resideue etc), tie clip evidence, smoking, bourbon, skydiving experience, speech used, physical description of cooper, selection of the alias "dan cooper", knowledge of tacoma etc, knowledge of 727 flaps etc, knowledge of filing flight path,

??

We all will just have to be patient for a bit longer.

and a bit longer after that! and a bit longer after that! and a bit longer after that! and a bit longer after that!  ...  Josh Gates &  Company ...Discovery+ Channel summer 2036. Subscribe today.

This doesn't have anything to do with Gates. ::)
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7195 on: September 05, 2021, 05:34:23 PM »
here's my current list of urls for high resolution pictures at Heritage Auction.
There is at least one more PCGS certified/encapsulated bill I know of, that's not on this list. I think it got sold without going to auction.

note some serials were not determined (the last 11 fragments)

This pics are good because all high resolution. If you register at ha.com and sign in, you can click on the front and back images and get hi-res (can even download the images).

I think this is complete. let me know if I don't have something. If you google sometimes you get different urls that rediret within ha.com. I've made the urls consistent.

41 links
 
G54783796B 1963A You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
B09090997B 1963A You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
C13871652A 1963A You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
G00061029B 1969  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I02591811A 1969  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I06638737A 1969  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
J09534759A 1969  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L01781113A 1969  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L01842041A 1969  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L03160387B 1963A You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L03166965B 1963A You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L06832736A 1969  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L09781412A 1969  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L20301456A 1969  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L30008289A 1969  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L32700814A 1969  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L34047759A 1969  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L34212082A 1969  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L34589413A 1969  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L35399523B 1963A You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L38138140A 1969  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L382xxxxxx xxxx  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L47621840A 1969  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L49839325B 1963A You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L51079019B 1963A You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L51236377B 1963A You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L55372948B 1963A You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L69210458B 1963A You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L72525838B 1963A You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L72738527B 1963A You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
L73000558B 1963A You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
xxxxxxxxxx xxxx You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
xxxxxxxxxx xxxx You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
xxxxxxxxxx xxxx You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
xxxxxxxxxx xxxx You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
xxxxxxxxxx xxxx You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
xxxxxxxxxx xxxx You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
xxxxxxxxxx xxxx You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
xxxxxxxxxx xxxx You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
xxxxxxxxxx xxxx You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
xxxxxxxxxx xxxx You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 05:38:03 PM by snowmman »
 
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7196 on: September 05, 2021, 08:47:53 PM »
The day the FBI dug at Tena Bar in 1980, a number of news videos showed them holding up a bill fragment they found that day.

It was a "G" note.

I found a good video with enough detail to identify the G note. It is not in the list of any "found" serials I have.
The attached picture is from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

It starts with G
There is a "637" sequence in it for sure
It looks like the sequence is "5637" with a round number after the 7

There are 4 G serials with a 637 sequence
The additional info is fbi file 55 page number, row, and serial group (left to right)

G21056376B 1963A 162 24 E
G21637800B 1963A 162 31 E
G52463792A 1963A 163 36 C
G57256377B 1963A 163 31 D

from those choices, the number before the 637 seems to be a 5 (not a 3 or 6)
You can see the top of the 5 in the picture
G21056376B 1963A 162 24 E
G57256377B 1963A 163 31 D

Of those two choices, the 5637 seems to be followed by a number with a round bottom.
Of the two choices above (6 or 7), the only possible is the 6.
that would be
G21056376B 1963A 162 24 E

So I think the G note fragment found by the FBI the day of the dig, is
G21056376B 1963A


As far as I can tell, this serial has not been listed as "found on Tena Bar" before.

EDIT: just noticed FLYJACK did the same analysis and got the same serial #, in Mar.
on this page
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« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 12:47:00 AM by snowmman »
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7197 on: September 06, 2021, 12:21:43 AM »
Maj Dan Dawson/Rep. Dan Dawson - below

Sen Slade Gorton, friend of Dawson. Interviewed before his death he said he and Dawson never discussed the Cooper case. Was the Attorney General of the State of Washington (1969–1981) when the Cooper hijacking happened ...
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 12:22:12 AM by georger »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7198 on: September 06, 2021, 02:12:33 AM »
 I was surprised to see some Tena Bar bills (PCGS encapsulated) up for sale on ebay.
prices are a bit jacked up compared to when they were first auctioned

looks like it's all the same seller? oklahoma city?

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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7199 on: September 06, 2021, 05:40:03 AM »
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Snowmman, one of the people mentioned in your posts above is on this thread and has been in touch with a number of people here, probably including yourself and 377.  I strongly suspect that there will be some information available soon, maybe before the end of this month, that will be the booster shot that moves the Cooper investigation a long way down the road.  This individual has done his homework!

okay.
What might be the info focused on?
flight path, tena bar, probable jump location, tena bar bills/rubber band decomposition, knowledge of 727, knowledge of prior 727 jumps, tie evidence (titanium, tobacoo resideue etc), tie clip evidence, smoking, bourbon, skydiving experience, speech used, physical description of cooper, selection of the alias "dan cooper", knowledge of tacoma etc, knowledge of 727 flaps etc, knowledge of filing flight path,

??

We all will just have to be patient for a bit longer.

and a bit longer after that! and a bit longer after that! and a bit longer after that! and a bit longer after that!  ...  Josh Gates &  Company ...Discovery+ Channel summer 2036. Subscribe today.

This doesn't have anything to do with Gates. ::)

Regardless you have been promising The Final Solution for years. So far . . . where are The MEATS! ?  :)