Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1558349 times)

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7080 on: August 23, 2021, 06:47:56 PM »
PA&E helped build CIA interrogation chambers in each of Vietnam's 44 provinces
Sheridan talks about the interrogations in his book. This was part of the Phoenix program.

He may have gotten some exposure to this while working for PA&E rather than as USAID Refugee Advisor?
He worked for PA&E from 1966 to 1967 so the timing was right (the program ran from 1965 to 1972)

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[PA&E in] Vietnam
The Army relied on civilian contractors for almost half of their maintenance and construction projects in Vietnam. The Army had decided not to mobilize the Reserves where most of their facilities engineers were located. This fell in line with the restrictions they felt were put on them regarding troop strength. The army was forced to fill the non-combatant work that was necessary for the success of the war with a civilian work force. PA&E arrived in Vietnam in 1963 with 274 men located at six sites and expanded to over 24,000 workers in more than 120 locations by 1968.

The contract with the army grew to over $100 million in these peak years as their duties and costs expanded. The work force they used was made up of 5% Americans, 15% from assorted countries, and 80% from Vietnam itself. The contract with the army remained in effect until 1970, undergoing many changes, but ending as a cost-plus-award-fee contract in 1969, which "appears to have resulted in increased effectiveness and efficiency. [29]

PA&E worked closely with the military and the CIA in Vietnam. They operated a small fleet of aircraft under US registry [30] and even started buying into small regional airlines [31]. Their employees were also subject to capture [32].

PA&E's main responsibility was to provide all the facilities engineering support for the Army in Vietnam. In order to meet the demands of the situation, it was necessary for them to take on the Army's regulations in organizing a working group. The government's responsibility was to provide the equipment, repair parts, tools, materials as well as living facilities. PA&E provided the labor, organization, and management [33]. They also provided for pest eradication, a job that had typically remained within the Army's range of duties [34].

PA&E was also responsible for organizing the labor to build the CIA's newly designed interrogation chambers in each of South Vietnam's 44 provinces. These new buildings provided the South Vietnam government with the internal security they needed to carry out the Province Interrogation Program through out the villages and towns across Southern Vietnam. The 44 CIA officers in charge of each province served as the foundation for the Phoenix Program carried out by the CIA and US military against the civilians of Southern Vietnam. The newly designed buildings were created for the sole purpose of detaining and questioning suspects for information on any possible activities by the VietCong. Some of the regional centers were large enough to hold up to three hundred prisoners and were the sites of many highly questionable and illegal techniques [35][36][37][38]

-------------------

Phoenix Program

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Torture
Methods of reported torture detailed by author Douglas Valentine that were used at the interrogation centers included "rape, gang rape, rape using eels, snakes, or hard objects, and rape followed by murder; electric shock ('the Bell Telephone Hour') rendered by attaching wires to the genitals or other sensitive parts of the body, like the tongue; the 'water treatment'; the 'airplane' in which the prisoner's arms were tied behind the back, and the rope looped over a hook on the ceiling, suspending the prisoner in midair, after which he or she was beaten; beatings with rubber hoses and whips; the use of police dogs to maul prisoners."[22][25]
« Last Edit: August 23, 2021, 06:53:41 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7081 on: August 23, 2021, 07:01:04 PM »
titanium heat exchangers are used in refrigeration systems


A heat exchanger system facilitates the transfer of heat energy from one system to another.

You can use them for both heating and cooling processes.

Although you can make heat exchangers from different metals, these systems are made from titanium metal.

Unlike the other predecessors, titanium heat exchangers are totally immune to corrosion.

However, to work at full efficiency the device requires more surface area and a higher fluid flow rate.

In most cases, you will find coil patterns.

This is because they maximize the surface area of the tubes.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7082 on: August 23, 2021, 09:30:09 PM »
Remembering Sailshaw and Petey

Snowmman posted a few emails from Petey a few pages back, and some discussed Bob Sailshaw, aka "Swineshaw."

Bob Sailshaw was always a straight shooter with me. His narrative about Petey never changed in the years we worked together. Conversely, Petey was by turns, silent, hostile, deceptive, and charming.

Here's what I know about these two fellas:

1. Petey's neighbors in the Vincrest Assisted Living facility oscillated between hating Petey or being afraid of him. His immediate next-door neighbor told me that Petey had trashed his apartment due to a cognitive disorder and being unable to adequately care for himself. The apartment had to be completely renovated once Vincrest evicted him. He left the month before I arrived, and his apartment was still being worked on when I was there.

2. Bob consistently told me that Petey only stayed at the basement apartment for one month and Bob had to evict him for non-payment of the rent. Bob's wife confirmed this. Bob never mentioned a Joon Lee or anyone else living there or visiting. Bob described many conversations with Petey, including the functioning of the stair system on the 727 and 737. Petey was not much interested in the later, and disappointed that Bob had little knowledge about the 727.

3. Petey told me several stories about his time in Vietnam, many of them conflicting. When I wrote about them, Petey was angry at me for not getting his story straight about how he left Vietnam. At the end of our correspondence, Petey was quite clear with me that he was "un-invited" from Vietnam by the US Ambassador to Vietnam, or the top State Department official there. I forget whom, exactly. Snow's posting of Petey's resume claiming that he worked for the USAID, is the first time I'm hearing that. Petey always cast himself to me as a refugee advisor, working for the US State Department.

4. Yes, Petey invited me to live with him in Nicaragua in 2016 during the Trump presidential campaign. Yes, I lost a ten dollar bet to Petey with Trump's election. Yes, Petey called me a CIA stooge and worse on multiple occasions. Yes, we never spoke on the phone, although I strongly believe I did at first, when a frail elderly, male voice only said that I had a wrong number. Yes, Petey stopped his email correspondence with me sometime in late 2016 or early 2017.

Lastly, I am not pissed-off that Snow posted the emails. Although surprised by them, it's good to refresh one's memory.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2021, 09:36:55 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7083 on: August 23, 2021, 11:55:59 PM »
I figured you wouldn't mind Bruce.

I agree it's difficult to know what's true, when two people are passionate about their point of view.

I figured it was fair to let Pete's words say his point of view.

At the very least, if Pete is the one who's wrong, it's interesting to see how vociferous he was.

In hindsight, we all got to a point where we tolerated his personality and digested what he said in different ways. It's a weird way to have a conversation. Inevitabily, it doesn't aid in figuring out what is truth.

Ah, life and humans are complicated.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2021, 11:56:35 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7084 on: August 24, 2021, 12:07:50 AM »
Here's an odd thing, as I was digging thru old emails.
Early in our exchanges, he replied with what appears to me, to be an accidental attachment that he sent or meant to send to someone else.

Sheridan was always struggling with his computer, and used it heavily. I'm assuming he didn't mean to send this to me, but as always with Sheridan, one can never be sure.

In any case, this shows how Sheridan used to talk to people, very dramatic and sounding very serious about wanting to leave the country when Trump was elected. Interesting, there's a tidbit about thinking about living in Sri Lanka in 1978, but it was "more than I could afford" ...(they apparently had some money/spending issue for non-citizen residence?, kind of like Canada? Don't know)

Note how prescient his prediction was in 2016: "The Gringos are going to get rough when Trump takes the reins."

in any case, here's the text of the letter. His name/address/phone number was at the top, but I removed.

The letter also shows how real his constant paranoia was. There were many times when I regretted causing him more stress. He would talk about how his blood pressure was high etc. I felt pretty lousy being part of causing stress in an old man, prone to paranoia.

On the one hand, I hope that anyone who created unnecessary stress for Sheridan feels a little guilty. But at the same time, he brought a lot of it on himself. So the situation was all very confusing.

I wonder who this Jasmine is/was (2016). It sounds like someone new he met, when he talks  about her name.

It would have been fun to take him to the movies to watch "Snowden".

-----------------------------------------

September 20, 2016

Dear Jasmine,
Your name is quite suitable. The dictionary says: any tropical plant of the olive variety with
fragrant flowers of yellow, red and white used in perfume or for scenting tea.
This travel guide is 14 years old, so the hotel, restaurant, ect have changed. Nevertheless it
will give you a good idea of how things are in Mexico. My first stop is Puebla. It is in the
mountain, so it’s cool in the summer. And it is near Mexico City, but not too near.

The first thing you must do is get a passport. Every Latino should have one. The Gringos
are going to get rough when Trump takes the reins. Do you know where the nearest Mexico
counsil is? We’ll need visas. And find out all sorts of things.

I ordered Lonely Planet travel guides for Brazil, Nicaragua, and Belize. Brazil’s rate of
exchange is great for the time being. Nicaragua may be the poorest but safest place. They
wont let Trump’s goons in, and if they do, they’ll watch them. Rio De Jineinro is very
expensive, but it’s not the only place in Brazil.

One step at a time. First check things out. Bank, hospital, pharmacy, American Express
office. There is so much to discuss, but I don’t want to overwhelm you now.. I’m trying to find
out where American Express offices are, but they’re being very coy. Want me to subscribe
to the travel package. They cater to the tourist. Too expensive. Lonely Planet also has a
travel package. Insist I join it. I want to be near an American Express office. They are very
reliable. There is another issue. Will they allow us to reside there. In 1978 I inquired about
living in Sri Lanka. I was told that I had to spend a sizeable amount to live there. More than I
could afford. That maybe an issue in South America.

Buy a money belt if you can find one.
That’s all for now, Times running out.
Best wishes,
Sheridan

P.S. Best to keep this a secret. One never knows who to trust. For example the local Post
71, of Veterans for Peace is infiltrated by Feds. Amy Goodman of Democracy Now said all
peace groups are infiltrated. This laptop is no doubt compromised. I want to see Oliver
Stone’s flick Snowden.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 12:13:11 AM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7085 on: August 24, 2021, 12:21:05 AM »
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3. Petey told me several stories about his time in Vietnam, many of them conflicting. When I wrote about them, Petey was angry at me for not getting his story straight about how he left Vietnam. At the end of our correspondence, Petey was quite clear with me that he was "un-invited" from Vietnam by the US Ambassador to Vietnam, or the top State Department official there. I forget whom, exactly. Snow's posting of Petey's resume claiming that he worked for the USAID, is the first time I'm hearing that. Petey always cast himself to me as a refugee advisor, working for the US State Department.
 

The details of his US AID employment are well covered in the most recent version (Dec 2018) of his book on amazon.

He was very passionate in his descriptions of what he did and what went down.

People unfamiliar with Pete's real life, may not realize that the two main characters are in fact both Pete.
I was shocked when I first read the lulu version (shorter) and realized the two characters were pete. Pete has admitted this...he almost assumes the reader will realize that, which is surprising. It's not obvious at all, unless you know Pete's life story. Or maybe he doesn't care if the reader realizes that. He maybe creates the two characters from his life to tell the story. Or maybe the two characters are the story? more so than Vietnam?

Pete always acknowledged he kind of had a split personality. Schizophrenic? I don't know...maybe not that much.

But Bruce: you remember your interview with his brother right? and the whole question about why he got sent away to boy's school

It pissed me off that I was talking to an old man who was obviously used to manipulating people and getting his way. But he could be super nice and interesting. He was much better in person.
He made me lunch etc. Very gracious.

His time in vietnam was still forefront on his mind. I was surprised, because most old men have come to grips with their lives long ago. Sometimes it seems like Pete was still living old war stories. I hope I brought him some peace by helping with his book.
He seemed honestly happy with it (at times) , although we had dramatic conversations about punctuation styles ..."F**k you!" he would start an email about periods and commas and AP style :)

I had misgivings about some of his ethnic slurs and depictions of relationships with women that were unsettling. But he was adamant that it was "truth" and described the times and shouldn't be changed.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 12:30:27 AM by snowmman »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7086 on: August 24, 2021, 12:21:35 AM »
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The bag was not filled to the top. In fact, it probably had around a foot of empty space above the money with the top of the bag left open.

But when you go to fold that foot of extra bag at the top in order to cinch and close off the top, folding the excess over the hole, which is about 9” wide, means you’re taking about 5” of bag in all directions to bring to the top center. This leaves you 6” or so of bag to tie off with shroud lines, which is very little.

I know I’m not explaining it very well, but the point is that he probably was concerned that the cinch would pop off once he jumped. Therefore, to be absolutely certain he could cinch the top securely, he would have to remove some of the packets so the bank bag wasn’t so filled.

I’ve actually done this with a bank bag and properly sized ransom.

What bag? Does Tosaw say it was a bag, definitely ?  Interview testimony suggests either chute container or money bag - take your choice. Pilot even said it was a knapsack tied around him!

...............

7:54 pm    t1   
MSP:      As soon as reasonably sure the man has left the quicker you can land.
305:       Roger. Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him
and thinks he will attempt a jump. 
MSP:      Roger. After leaving this freq go to 131.8 we have direct phone patch
There (to Company and FBI)
305:       Roger.


(During her final minutes on board and after the parachutes had been brought aboard), Hancock noticed that one of the parachutes had been unpacked and she asked the hijacker if he had taken the parachute apart and he replied “yes”.   Hancock says the hijacker began unpacking one chute and cutting cords almost as soon as the chutes were brought on board. 

. It was also during this time that he complained to Mucklow that he had requested the money be delivered in a knapsack but instead it was delivered in a cloth type bank bag, which displeased him. It was at this time that Mucklow recalls he stated he would be forced to use one of the parachutes to rewrap the money since he had not been furnished the knapsack.

Mucklow states that at takeoff the hijacker was using several seats and was occupied with opening one of the parachutes and attempting to pack the money in the parachute container and attach it to his body using the parachute (container’s) straps. Mucklow recalls that the parachute was a bright pink-orange color. Mucklow’s description is somewhat vague but she says he removed a small jack-knife from his pocket and he cut some portion of the outside container or the parachute in order to secure the money in ‘this’ rather than in the white cloth type bank bag which had been furnished him. She says that she did not see him tamper with the two large parachute containers other than to generally inspect them when she brought them aboard.       

When Mucklow returned to the plane with the last back pack chute, she saw that the hijacker had one of the small chutes open and was cutting nylon cords out with his pocket knife. He took the nylon cord and wrapped it around the neck of the money bag numerous times and then he wrapped it a few times from top to bottom, and with the same piece (of cord)  he made a loop like a handle at the top. This nylon cord was pinkish in color. He appeared irritated that they hadn’t given him a knapsack for the money as requested, and after trying to put the money in an unfolded parachute, he decided to leave it in the canvas bag (and fabricate a holding line for that, instead).   

… and she went forward, faced the curtain, and the last time she saw him he had a nylon cord tied around his waste and he was standing in the isle. Before she secured the curtain she called back and pleaded with him to take the bomb with him or disarm it before he left.   
 

Take your choice.  ;)

 
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 12:25:39 AM by georger »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7087 on: August 24, 2021, 12:27:34 AM »
" Mucklow’s description is somewhat vague but she says he removed a small jack-knife from his pocket and he cut some portion of the outside container or the parachute"

on the reserve left behind, I believe pictures show no cutting of canopy or container, just lines.

it's possible he cut the other reserve up though, the one that disappeared? Or Mucklow just didn't describe correctly.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7088 on: August 24, 2021, 12:40:50 AM »
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" Mucklow’s description is somewhat vague but she says he removed a small jack-knife from his pocket and he cut some portion of the outside container or the parachute"

on the reserve left behind, I believe pictures show no cutting of canopy or container, just lines.

it's possible he cut the other reserve up though, the one that disappeared? Or Mucklow just didn't describe correctly.

Its amazing Mucklow kept her wits about her to describe anything! She was flat out amazing.
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7089 on: August 26, 2021, 08:42:38 PM »
My error. It was Mayfield.

Cossey('s)...   ...skydive training business was a disaster however. He showed such a callous disregard for student safety that he was prosecuted for manslaughter. There were several deaths, some of which were attributed to poorly maintained gear.

377


Cossey did that? Are you sure you're not mixing him up with Ted Mayfield?
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7090 on: August 26, 2021, 08:49:58 PM »
My pilot friend knew McKay well. Another Sheridan factoid confirmed.

“ Hello Mark: It's very strange you would ask me that. We did have a McKay in our outfit while in Viet-Nam. He was a short stocky guy and was a skydiver. He would actually jump on weekends while in Saigon, aircraft provided by the US Army.  He was a member of a Skydiving Club in Saigon. He served several tours back to back. I don't recall is first name for sure but I think it was Johnny. We received two Caribous a few months before I returned to the US and I'm sure he stayed on because he loved being there and wanted to work on the Caribou. He would read us his letters he received from his mother and she pleaded with him asking "why won't you come home ".  While I was there he was on his third consecutive tour. Let me know if this is the same man.”

I’ll find out if the Boos were USAF or Army.

377


 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7091 on: August 27, 2021, 12:54:47 AM »
From my pilot friend:

“ The entire Caribou  program was strictly US Army. I believe it was in 1965 the USAF complained that the size of the Caribou violated the restrictions for the type of airplanes/helicopters the Army was permitted to operate. The USAF won the argument and all the Caribou's were turned over to the USAF.  The Army designation was CV-2 while the USAF changed it to C-7.”

377
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7092 on: August 27, 2021, 01:02:28 AM »
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My pilot friend knew McKay well. Another Sheridan factoid confirmed.

“ Hello Mark: It's very strange you would ask me that. We did have a McKay in our outfit while in Viet-Nam. He was a short stocky guy and was a skydiver. He would actually jump on weekends while in Saigon, aircraft provided by the US Army.  He was a member of a Skydiving Club in Saigon. He served several tours back to back. I don't recall is first name for sure but I think it was Johnny. We received two Caribous a few months before I returned to the US and I'm sure he stayed on because he loved being there and wanted to work on the Caribou. He would read us his letters he received from his mother and she pleaded with him asking "why won't you come home ".  While I was there he was on his third consecutive tour. Let me know if this is the same man.”

I’ll find out if the Boos were USAF or Army.

377


I find it interesting that I know more about the Saigon Sport Parachute Club than the FBI ever has, and if you were investigating things back then, wouldn't that be something worth investigating, just as much as all the stateside clubs they investigated? It's like they didn't know there were skydive clubs outside the US that were viable sources for Cooper.
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7093 on: August 27, 2021, 02:40:06 AM »
If only Coppola had known about the Saigon Sport Parachute Club. You can bet it would have been in Apocalypse Now.

377
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7094 on: August 27, 2021, 11:09:15 AM »
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If only Coppola had known about the Saigon Sport Parachute Club. You can bet it would have been in Apocalypse Now.

377

Marlon Brando a skydiver?  Not likely.  But maybe Harrison Ford.