Trying to figure out the dialog is one thing. understanding is another.

The statements the crew make are conflicting IMO. they state they were not sure Cooper left the plane. when you read about the crew being asked about the pressure bump/oscillation/fluctuations etc. they all agree and believe they knew when Cooper jumped. "we all looked at each other, there he goes" they report it and no replies.

The failure of anyone on the ground following up on this event is a critical error. 10 minutes or so past the jump time they are asking them to drop the temp in the cabin to slow his reflexes down and gain altitude to induce hypoxia? it's like the crew never said anything at all. no replies of "say again" or asking for a fixed location, nothing. nobody goes in the back and Tina get on the horn asking him to raise the stairs so they can land...very confusing how all this went unnoticed.

Keep in mind that the crew would report the possibility of Cooper jumping over the ARINC phone patch frequency and not over the Air Traffic Control frequency.  Also, Fred Poynter's group at WSHM made a study and concluded that the ARINC teletypewriter printouts had been redacted just as the ATC radio transcripts had been redacted.

So there is no complete transcript of the ATC or ARINC communications.  The point of redactions is to remove relevant information and that was done in this case.  The absence of such transmissions does not mean that they were not done.

The Harrison hand written notes appear to be similar to the transcripts. how were they able to fix them and remove information critical to the location of the jump or the location of the plane. wasn't this the reason Harrison took notes?

I fail to see anything critical that would be missing when you look at the hand written notes for comparison other than some timing differences they match up pretty good. this would be difficult for them to try and tamper with the notes.

The notes have nothing more to add to the dialog in critical area's such as the jump location, time of jump or any locations of the plane that are not found on the transcripts. it's almost as if he redacted them himself? The notes appear to backup the transcripts.

Even though the traffic control works together across the nation, I'm guessing each one does things different from each other.

Lets say the exact location was originally on the transcripts and were very specific to where the plane actually was. why did they look where they did instead of what is hidden from everyone else? it's not as if they made it appear to look like they were searching the wrong area. hundreds were in that area for some time.

It's hard to understand they would remove critical parts that could give locations on the transcripts that would show the plane was possibly in a different location and spend all there time knowing it's the wrong location to search? 

The FBI had no input surrounding the aviation part. they leave it up to the ones in that field to tell them where the plane was and when he jumped. covering up the transcripts is something they could do but how did they manipulate everyone else to follow there lead? this would require NWO to get bad information from the start. it doesn't add up they all got it wrong and the truth is in the transcripts prior to redaction? the air force followed them on the same radar along with the sage. how did northwest get the phone patch records wrong? it just doesn't add up imo.

Its one thing to say 'there might be redactions'. It's another thing entirely to keep claiming: "There are redactions" - without any proof! To keep claiming it is silly. 

Interesting post and exchanges by Ckret etal 2008, on oscillations vs. bump:

Ckret
•   522 posts #4934
November 2, 2008
 
  <Quote Snowmman>

Didn't open the jpg's to look at the report you were referencing, I was speaking to the jump (equipement used and how it would have performed in a higher low opening) which was calculated by a member of the Boeing jump club, of which all were investigated.

The problem with the report is they used the time of the oscillations for the jump, which i think is wrong. i think when you put the whole jump together the oscillations were Cooper slowly moving down the stairs. The bump didn't occur until a few minutes later; when they could see Portland just from the north.

So all of the calculations are correct, just have to move everything south a few minutes.

-----------------------------------------------------

Reply>
In order for something to "oscillate" you have to have some force(s) being applied where a sympathetic frequency is set up. The logical force is the wind, or cross winds. The logical event is the stairs extending into the air stream. But this happens at about 20:12 precisely when they make a left hand turn in the approach to BTGVOR, which changes the angle of the aircraft relative to the wind(s).

So, it is not required that the stairs are being extended further, only that the flight angle of the (plane with stairs) changes with respect to the airstream.

Also there is nothing in the transcript which says the oscillations increased or decreased after they began or if they went away? prior to the bump?

The test which confirmed the bump also confirmed oscillations prior to the bump? And what exactly was "oscillating"

Just an observation -

Georger[/reply]

You are applying too much science, over over analyzing, sometimes the answers are simple. From putting everything together, the crew was referencing the cabin pressure gauge when the statement of “oscillation” was made. Not that they were feeling an oscillation in the aircraft. Remember; in another log created at the same time as the one reporting oscillations the word used was “fluctuations.”

Because the crew always referenced the bump as a pressure change it would make since that prior to the large “Pressure Event,” there were small events leading up.

Now go back and you’re Cooper getting ready to jump. You are gingerly walking down the air stairs because you have never done this before. With each step you take caution, take a step and see what happens, take a step and see what happens. As you are doing this, the cabin pressure gauge in the cockpit starts to fluctuate.

The engineer notices this and reports the anomaly to ops, these fluctuations continue for a few minutes as you figure things out. Once you’re set you jump and the stairs come back to the body of the plane, causing the pressure event known as “the bump.” It is noticeable but not dramatic, the needle instantly spikes, they notice the change in their ears, things calm quickly. Because the small fluctuations continue (the stairs are still open to about 15 degrees) nothing is reported they just assume this is a continuation of what they have already reported. But they do take note, “wonder if he just jumped?” As they wonder this they notice they are just north of the Portland suburbs.

I think the individual typing the teletype was being fed info from the guy keeping the hand written log. When the guy keeping the handwritten log said, “they are reporting some type of fluctuations in the cabin pressure; they said the gauge is bouncing.” The teletype operator then typed “oscillations” his words not the crews.

Amazing how small, even seeming harmless interpretations can cause large fluctuations or oscillations in history. 
•   

[reply] Georger
This whole scenario is mixing and confusing multiple effects and causes. Vibration of stairs. Trim of aircraft? These are mechanical effects. Then there are acoustic effects being seen on the cabin pressure gauge related to the opening and closing of the hole in the back of the plane. Both effects happening simultaneously but they are separate physical events each with a different cause. The large pressure spike called a 'bump' is an acoustic event due to the sudden closing of the hole by the stair door slamming and closing the rear hole for an instant of time. The crew probably didn't expect that because they had never experienced that happening in a 727 before. The guys dropping cargo in Vietnam may have experienced that - you should check with them? Immediately after the large acoustic pressure spike (door closing) they say the vibrations stopped. That's key! That's the time and place Cooper jumped imo. But there are two separate physical events happening in this oscillations vs bump scenario.   

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R99 is sticking to his guns. nothing wrong with that at all. it takes a lot to get everyone to agree on certain points of the case. I disagree with some things he claims. he's no dummy, but not perfect either, nobody is.

It just doesn't add up to me looking at the totality of things. I believe things are left out but not sold on it being a case busting amount.

Its because 99 is no dummy and an actual engineer that this has to be taken seriously. Still it is a 'claim' not a fact.

True, facts are hard to come by. the problem usually starts when assumptions become facts.

I think the individual typing the teletype was being fed info from the guy keeping the hand written log. When the guy keeping the handwritten log said, “they are reporting some type of fluctuations in the cabin pressure; they said the gauge is bouncing.” The teletype operator then typed “oscillations” his words not the crews.

That's also open for debate. Anderson used the term oscillation and Rat mentions the fluctuations. the terminology appears to be widespread. the gauge would fluctuate as the stairs moved up and down. they would increase dramatically when weight was applied IMO.

Interesting post and exchanges by Ckret etal 2008, on oscillations vs. bump:

Ckret
•   522 posts #4934
November 2, 2008
 
  <Quote Snowmman>

Didn't open the jpg's to look at the report you were referencing, I was speaking to the jump (equipement used and how it would have performed in a higher low opening) which was calculated by a member of the Boeing jump club, of which all were investigated.

The problem with the report is they used the time of the oscillations for the jump, which i think is wrong. i think when you put the whole jump together the oscillations were Cooper slowly moving down the stairs. The bump didn't occur until a few minutes later; when they could see Portland just from the north.

So all of the calculations are correct, just have to move everything south a few minutes.

-----------------------------------------------------

Reply>
In order for something to "oscillate" you have to have some force(s) being applied where a sympathetic frequency is set up. The logical force is the wind, or cross winds. The logical event is the stairs extending into the air stream. But this happens at about 20:12 precisely when they make a left hand turn in the approach to BTGVOR, which changes the angle of the aircraft relative to the wind(s).

So, it is not required that the stairs are being extended further, only that the flight angle of the (plane with stairs) changes with respect to the airstream.

Also there is nothing in the transcript which says the oscillations increased or decreased after they began or if they went away? prior to the bump?

The test which confirmed the bump also confirmed oscillations prior to the bump? And what exactly was "oscillating"

Just an observation -

Georger[/reply]

You are applying too much science, over over analyzing, sometimes the answers are simple. From putting everything together, the crew was referencing the cabin pressure gauge when the statement of “oscillation” was made. Not that they were feeling an oscillation in the aircraft. Remember; in another log created at the same time as the one reporting oscillations the word used was “fluctuations.”

Because the crew always referenced the bump as a pressure change it would make since that prior to the large “Pressure Event,” there were small events leading up.

Now go back and you’re Cooper getting ready to jump. You are gingerly walking down the air stairs because you have never done this before. With each step you take caution, take a step and see what happens, take a step and see what happens. As you are doing this, the cabin pressure gauge in the cockpit starts to fluctuate.

The engineer notices this and reports the anomaly to ops, these fluctuations continue for a few minutes as you figure things out. Once you’re set you jump and the stairs come back to the body of the plane, causing the pressure event known as “the bump.” It is noticeable but not dramatic, the needle instantly spikes, they notice the change in their ears, things calm quickly. Because the small fluctuations continue (the stairs are still open to about 15 degrees) nothing is reported they just assume this is a continuation of what they have already reported. But they do take note, “wonder if he just jumped?” As they wonder this they notice they are just north of the Portland suburbs.

I think the individual typing the teletype was being fed info from the guy keeping the hand written log. When the guy keeping the handwritten log said, “they are reporting some type of fluctuations in the cabin pressure; they said the gauge is bouncing.” The teletype operator then typed “oscillations” his words not the crews.

Amazing how small, even seeming harmless interpretations can cause large fluctuations or oscillations in history. 
•   

[reply] Georger
This whole scenario is mixing and confusing multiple effects and causes. Vibration of stairs. Trim of aircraft? These are mechanical effects. Then there are acoustic effects being seen on the cabin pressure gauge related to the opening and closing of the hole in the back of the plane. Both effects happening simultaneously but they are separate physical events each with a different cause. The large pressure spike called a 'bump' is an acoustic event due to the sudden closing of the hole by the stair door slamming and closing the rear hole for an instant of time. The crew probably didn't expect that because they had never experienced that happening in a 727 before. The guys dropping cargo in Vietnam may have experienced that - you should check with them? Immediately after the large acoustic pressure spike (door closing) they say the vibrations stopped. That's key! That's the time and place Cooper jumped imo. But there are two separate physical events happening in this oscillations vs bump scenario.

I have been screaming this into the void for months. To underscore this, there is no official record of when the "pressure bump" occurred. The FBI and other researchers conclude that it was the time when the oscillations were last reported. This is wrong-headed.

All we can go on is what the crew has reported anecdotally which is that the lights of the suburbs were coming up and that they hadn't yet crossed the river. You can determine an exact time from those statements. Only broad ranges of time.