Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1674179 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6030 on: February 03, 2021, 11:14:43 AM »
Misread the post..NWO probably has all the flight info. The FBI wouldn't really need it. Same for radar data...
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 11:51:19 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6031 on: February 03, 2021, 07:39:38 PM »
Was on my phone posting the above. I hate it...anyway, I'm pretty sure most, if not all the data was handled by NWO and the Air Force. the FBI wouldn't know what they were looking at. it's out of there scope of work. NWO faxed the info to the FBI. I would bet NWO also removed the voice and flight data recorders as well. 

The tape recordings of the flight would be somewhere. R99 might key in on that issue..


 

Offline fcastle866

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6032 on: February 03, 2021, 09:28:02 PM »
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Certain area's of the midwest have different accents. same for the south. people in Ohio speak entirely different from those in Kentucky. Alamaba vs Mississippi. the list goes on and on. some people "wash" there clothes while others "warsh" them. New Yorkers tend to put an ER in place of an A. slice of "pizzer" or Idea is replaced with  "Idear" then things with an ending of ER are replaced with an A  :rofl: let me call my "motha" Minnesota has an accent different from others. you can hear the accent in Vicky Wilson's voice. you need to dig deep to try and find his accent. some do not have one at all and can be from anywhere..

Well, ethno-linguistics and dialetology are far more sophisticated than that. They solved the Una Bomber case, for one.

Very true about the Unabomber.  I've posted about it before.  Netflix has a great show on that. Ultimately it was his PhD thesis that helped get him caught.  He used language in his manifesto that would only have been used by an academic from the late 60s.  If we knew more about what Cooper said, the linguistics approach that Agent Jim Fitzgerald used could work.  I'd be curious to see what "Fitz" thinks about the Cooper case.

As for the accent as mentioned in other posts.  His lack of accent is one item that has affected the case in a disproportional amount.  I for one believed he might have been Canadian, because it made sense.  I don't anymore.  Many people have no accent (newscasters, midwest, etc.).  Or, if you are from the same area as someone, their accent does not sound like an accent, it sounds normal.  Or, Cooper could have had a very distinct accent, and therefore chose to not say much on purpose.  Safe to say he was probably not from NYC, as that is a tough accent to hide, even years later.  Just talk to Bruce.  However, my dad is from Queens and he has no accent anymore.  It all depends.

As for Cooper being an American Indian.  Rough numbers here, but in 1970 the US population was 205 million.  The Native American Population was 827,000.  It's possible that he was Native American, but is it probable?  He had no accent either.  There was mass immigration from Eastern and Southern Europe in the late 1800s and early 1900s.  Countries in those regions are known for dark skin and "swarthy" complexions.  I find it unusual that he was called "swarthy", yet people still say Native American or Latin.  When I think of swarthy or olive complexion, I think of the Mediterranean area-Italy, Greece, Spain, maybe of Arab descent, maybe Turkish.  Now, that is from growing up in an area of many ethnicities, versus growing up in a very homogeneous area.  Just some thoughts.
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6033 on: February 03, 2021, 11:53:49 PM »
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Certain area's of the midwest have different accents. same for the south. people in Ohio speak entirely different from those in Kentucky. Alamaba vs Mississippi. the list goes on and on. some people "wash" there clothes while others "warsh" them. New Yorkers tend to put an ER in place of an A. slice of "pizzer" or Idea is replaced with  "Idear" then things with an ending of ER are replaced with an A  :rofl: let me call my "motha" Minnesota has an accent different from others. you can hear the accent in Vicky Wilson's voice. you need to dig deep to try and find his accent. some do not have one at all and can be from anywhere..

Well, ethno-linguistics and dialetology are far more sophisticated than that. They solved the Una Bomber case, for one.

Very true about the Unabomber.  I've posted about it before.  Netflix has a great show on that. Ultimately it was his PhD thesis that helped get him caught.  He used language in his manifesto that would only have been used by an academic from the late 60s.  If we knew more about what Cooper said, the linguistics approach that Agent Jim Fitzgerald used could work.  I'd be curious to see what "Fitz" thinks about the Cooper case.

As for the accent as mentioned in other posts.  His lack of accent is one item that has affected the case in a disproportional amount.  I for one believed he might have been Canadian, because it made sense.  I don't anymore.  Many people have no accent (newscasters, midwest, etc.).  Or, if you are from the same area as someone, their accent does not sound like an accent, it sounds normal.  Or, Cooper could have had a very distinct accent, and therefore chose to not say much on purpose.  Safe to say he was probably not from NYC, as that is a tough accent to hide, even years later.  Just talk to Bruce.  However, my dad is from Queens and he has no accent anymore.  It all depends.

As for Cooper being an American Indian.  Rough numbers here, but in 1970 the US population was 205 million.  The Native American Population was 827,000.  It's possible that he was Native American, but is it probable?  He had no accent either.  There was mass immigration from Eastern and Southern Europe in the late 1800s and early 1900s.  Countries in those regions are known for dark skin and "swarthy" complexions.  I find it unusual that he was called "swarthy", yet people still say Native American or Latin.  When I think of swarthy or olive complexion, I think of the Mediterranean area-Italy, Greece, Spain, maybe of Arab descent, maybe Turkish.  Now, that is from growing up in an area of many ethnicities, versus growing up in a very homogeneous area.  Just some thoughts.

Good points - all. Except, no linguist would ever say 'he had no "accent". Might as well say: 'he spoke no human language' which is absurd. He obviously had some dialect from somewhere. Language is part of being human. Let me also add a linguist would want to compare his written notes with his spoken English. Writing usually reflects people's formal language learned in school vs their spoken (colloquial) language. The Unabomber's written text is what got him in trouble - identified him. Ted's brother's wife made the connection and passed it on to the FBI because she had previously edited Ted's formal writings when Ted lived in Chicago, and she saw similarities between Ted's previous writing and the new manifesto. Ted's brother was reticent but after several days he had to admit there was a connection. He called the FBI.

Alas, Cooper wrote no manifesto, that we know of. He had a grudge but apparently didn't write about it that we know of?

 :congrats:
« Last Edit: February 04, 2021, 01:49:08 AM by georger »
 
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6034 on: February 04, 2021, 01:51:33 AM »
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Was on my phone posting the above. I hate it...anyway, I'm pretty sure most, if not all the data was handled by NWO and the Air Force. the FBI wouldn't know what they were looking at. it's out of there scope of work. NWO faxed the info to the FBI. I would bet NWO also removed the voice and flight data recorders as well. 

The tape recordings of the flight would be somewhere. R99 might key in on that issue..

The FAA is required to keep all relevant data for aircraft accidents and incidents in order to assist with the NTSB's investigation.  Since the Cooper matter was also a criminal investigation, the FBI should also have copies of all that information.  But the FBI/FAA are not going to release that information, even the information that is in the public domain, for reasons best known to themselves.  But the information exists somewhere.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6035 on: February 04, 2021, 02:04:20 AM »
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Was on my phone posting the above. I hate it...anyway, I'm pretty sure most, if not all the data was handled by NWO and the Air Force. the FBI wouldn't know what they were looking at. it's out of there scope of work. NWO faxed the info to the FBI. I would bet NWO also removed the voice and flight data recorders as well. 

The tape recordings of the flight would be somewhere. R99 might key in on that issue..

The FAA is required to keep all relevant data for aircraft accidents and incidents in order to assist with the NTSB's investigation.  Since the Cooper matter was also a criminal investigation, the FBI should also have copies of all that information.  But the FBI/FAA are not going to release that information, even the information that is in the public domain, for reasons best known to themselves.  But the information exists somewhere.

Not sure if Cooper used the interphone except on one brief occasion to reply: everything is ok. We were previously told that interphone calls were not recorded.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6036 on: February 04, 2021, 02:11:48 AM »
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Certain area's of the midwest have different accents. same for the south. people in Ohio speak entirely different from those in Kentucky. Alamaba vs Mississippi. the list goes on and on. some people "wash" there clothes while others "warsh" them. New Yorkers tend to put an ER in place of an A. slice of "pizzer" or Idea is replaced with  "Idear" then things with an ending of ER are replaced with an A  :rofl: let me call my "motha" Minnesota has an accent different from others. you can hear the accent in Vicky Wilson's voice. you need to dig deep to try and find his accent. some do not have one at all and can be from anywhere..

Well, ethno-linguistics and dialetology are far more sophisticated than that. They solved the Una Bomber case, for one.

Very true about the Unabomber.  I've posted about it before.  Netflix has a great show on that. Ultimately it was his PhD thesis that helped get him caught.  He used language in his manifesto that would only have been used by an academic from the late 60s.  If we knew more about what Cooper said, the linguistics approach that Agent Jim Fitzgerald used could work.  I'd be curious to see what "Fitz" thinks about the Cooper case.

As for the accent as mentioned in other posts.  His lack of accent is one item that has affected the case in a disproportional amount.  I for one believed he might have been Canadian, because it made sense.  I don't anymore.  Many people have no accent (newscasters, midwest, etc.).  Or, if you are from the same area as someone, their accent does not sound like an accent, it sounds normal.  Or, Cooper could have had a very distinct accent, and therefore chose to not say much on purpose.  Safe to say he was probably not from NYC, as that is a tough accent to hide, even years later.  Just talk to Bruce.  However, my dad is from Queens and he has no accent anymore.  It all depends.

As for Cooper being an American Indian.  Rough numbers here, but in 1970 the US population was 205 million.  The Native American Population was 827,000.  It's possible that he was Native American, but is it probable?  He had no accent either.  There was mass immigration from Eastern and Southern Europe in the late 1800s and early 1900s.  Countries in those regions are known for dark skin and "swarthy" complexions.  I find it unusual that he was called "swarthy", yet people still say Native American or Latin.  When I think of swarthy or olive complexion, I think of the Mediterranean area-Italy, Greece, Spain, maybe of Arab descent, maybe Turkish.  Now, that is from growing up in an area of many ethnicities, versus growing up in a very homogeneous area.  Just some thoughts.

I used to work with Canadian and British engineers (including PhD types) in the 1960s and 1970s who were part of the British and Canadian brain drain of that era.  The Canadians spoke American English without accent.  Unless, of course, you consider North Central USA as having its own dialect.  The British did a superb job of also speaking American English with only infrequent touches of British English.

Full disclosure, I used to speak with a Northwestern USA accent (think Washington state).  And I may still do that for all I know, maybe Bruce Smith knows.

I also knew an engineer of Italian ancestry who claimed that he had an olive complexion.  I would never have known that unless he told me.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6037 on: February 04, 2021, 02:14:53 AM »
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Was on my phone posting the above. I hate it...anyway, I'm pretty sure most, if not all the data was handled by NWO and the Air Force. the FBI wouldn't know what they were looking at. it's out of there scope of work. NWO faxed the info to the FBI. I would bet NWO also removed the voice and flight data recorders as well. 

The tape recordings of the flight would be somewhere. R99 might key in on that issue..



The FAA is required to keep all relevant data for aircraft accidents and incidents in order to assist with the NTSB's investigation.  Since the Cooper matter was also a criminal investigation, the FBI should also have copies of all that information.  But the FBI/FAA are not going to release that information, even the information that is in the public domain, for reasons best known to themselves.  But the information exists somewhere.

Not sure if Cooper used the interphone except on one brief occasion to reply: everything is ok. We were previously told that interphone calls were not recorded.

The interphone conversations were probably not recorded in 1971 although I think they may be now.  But all air traffic control and ARINC conversations were recorded and someone has them filed away somewhere.
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6038 on: February 04, 2021, 01:35:21 PM »
My two cents re: DBC’s ethnic background and linguistics:

1. American Indians are woefully underreported as missing. If Cooper was a Native American or First Nations, it increases the chances that him disappearing could slide under the radar.

2. Linguistics is an interesting approach to this case. It has been used in the Zodiac case - specifically the letters - which has suggested that perhaps Zodiac had a Canadian or British background. Obviously, there is not correspondence or voice recording of DBC which makes that much more difficult.

“Completely unhinged”
 

Offline Dfs346

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6039 on: February 04, 2021, 03:57:10 PM »
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If Cooper was a Native American or First Nations, it increases the chances that him disappearing could slide under the radar.

If (for the sake of argument) the hijacker had been a Native American, and if (for the sake of argument) he had been a resident of Oregon, the task of the FBI would have been exceedingly simple.

In the state of Oregon, the 1970 census counted 302 Native American males aged 40 to 44. If they followed the height and weight distribution of the American male population of that age group, about 90 of these men would have been in the height range 5'10" to 6'1", and about 30 (not necessarily part of the 90) would have been in the weight range 170-180 pounds.

The latter is less than the number that the FBI considered as suspects among the employees of the Boeing Airplane Company.

If we count only Native Americans with an urban place of residence, the 302 becomes 180.

If we add Washington state, or enlarge the age group, the target demographic becomes larger but it's still in the hundreds of persons.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2021, 03:59:56 PM by Dfs346 »
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6040 on: February 04, 2021, 04:21:34 PM »
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...  Safe to say he was probably not from NYC, as that is a tough accent to hide, even years later.  Just talk to Bruce.  However, my dad is from Queens and he has no accent anymore.  It all depends....


Sorry to hear that. What happened to my paisano? Did he lose his voice? Can he still use his hands?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6041 on: February 04, 2021, 08:52:09 PM »
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6042 on: February 04, 2021, 11:13:42 PM »
Cooper Country Slang and Idioms

1. Sack = bag. EG: Would you like that in a sack?
2. You bet! = Yes.
3. Pop = Soda, soft drink, etc.
4. Subway = Grinder, sub, hero. Note "hoagie" is centered in eastern PA.
5. Lox = Non-existent even though we have the salmon. Don't even think to ask for it.
6. Cruisers = cop cars
7. A regular coffee = don't even bother asking. See "Lox." Rather, ask for an Americano with three sugars and a splash of half-and-half.
8. Umbrellas = only out-of-towners have them.
9. Sneakers = only New Yorkers living in CC use this term. But CC'ers will understand what you're trying to say.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2021, 11:21:48 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6043 on: February 04, 2021, 11:24:37 PM »
My grandparents were from Kentucky. my father was adopted...

She would ask you if you want a "cake of gum" instead of a stick of gum
My grandfather had a heavy accent. he would tell you to "shit the door behind you"
Check the water in the "Bat-tree"
Check the "Earl" in the motor.
Make sure you have "fill-um in the camry"
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6044 on: February 04, 2021, 11:29:36 PM »
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Nice post - crackers.  ;)