Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

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Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1673903 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5880 on: January 03, 2021, 01:01:15 AM »
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Happy New Year All,

Well here is the first new Cooper Data of 2021.  Flyjack asked if I would analyze a lighter from the early 70's to see if the lighter particles matched the tie. He came up with one on Ebay and sent it over. The lighter didn't have a flint in it but it turned out better than that. There was a residue inside the metal cap that represented the entire life of the lighter. I was able to extract and analyze that residue under the SEM with elemental analysis.

The very surprising findings were boron and gallium in significant quantities. I have never seen either of these elements in any sample anywhere before. Neither of these elements were found on the tie that I can recall. So IF this lighter is representative of early 70's lighters, then it is very unlikely Cooper used a lighter on a regular basis. Not the best  outcome and represents negative data but hey at least it is something!

Tom Kaye

This strengthens the tie's connection to Cooper, so this is a good result.

Cooper was apparently a dedicated user of the Sky Chef matches that came with the Sky Chef airline meal service and four cigarettes that was the standard in the 1971 time frame.

Cooper apparently had one small pack of those matches with him initially and I think one of the stews gave him another one.

Tina mentioned an ICS school matchbook. It makes more sense this is the matchbook cooper had and the sky chef book came from the plane.

I have never seen anything where Tina mentioned an ICS matchbook.  It was always Sky Chef.  Do you have a citation for the ICS mention?

If you are referring to the mention on pages 10 and 11 of Tosaw's book, he does NOT mention ICS or Sky Chef either.  Tosaw simply states that Cooper gave Tina a matchbook and when it was exhausted she got "some company matches".

Tina also said that she saw "Earn a High School Diploma" on the cover of the matchbook that Cooper provided.

There was an extended discussion on this site some time back about the matchbooks and it was always Sky Chef matchbooks.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 01:20:40 AM by Robert99 »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5881 on: January 03, 2021, 01:36:16 AM »
Some of the ICS matchbooks make that statement on them..
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5882 on: January 03, 2021, 12:18:21 PM »
McNally, finally sent me an email. according to his email he has had some health issues. he said several production companies are working on a show about his life. he appears to be busy but I'm going to ask him about the stairs.

The question was how it felt on the stairs before jumping and how he went down the stairs, correct?

Is this what we need to answered?
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Offline fcastle866

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5883 on: January 03, 2021, 12:18:42 PM »
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Happy New Year All,

Well here is the first new Cooper Data of 2021.  Flyjack asked if I would analyze a lighter from the early 70's to see if the lighter particles matched the tie. He came up with one on Ebay and sent it over. The lighter didn't have a flint in it but it turned out better than that. There was a residue inside the metal cap that represented the entire life of the lighter. I was able to extract and analyze that residue under the SEM with elemental analysis.

The very surprising findings were boron and gallium in significant quantities. I have never seen either of these elements in any sample anywhere before. Neither of these elements were found on the tie that I can recall. So IF this lighter is representative of early 70's lighters, then it is very unlikely Cooper used a lighter on a regular basis. Not the best  outcome and represents negative data but hey at least it is something!

Tom Kaye

This strengthens the tie's connection to Cooper, so this is a good result.

Cooper was apparently a dedicated user of the Sky Chef matches that came with the Sky Chef airline meal service and four cigarettes that was the standard in the 1971 time frame.

Cooper apparently had one small pack of those matches with him initially and I think one of the stews gave him another one.

Tina mentioned an ICS school matchbook. It makes more sense this is the matchbook cooper had and the sky chef book came from the plane.

I have never seen anything where Tina mentioned an ICS matchbook.  It was always Sky Chef.  Do you have a citation for the ICS mention?

If you are referring to the mention on pages 10 and 11 of Tosaw's book, he does NOT mention ICS or Sky Chef either.  Tosaw simply states that Cooper gave Tina a matchbook and when it was exhausted she got "some company matches".

Tina also said that she saw "Earn a High School Diploma" on the cover of the matchbook that Cooper provided.

There was an extended discussion on this site some time back about the matchbooks and it was always Sky Chef matchbooks.

Flyjack and EU both did some work on the matchbooks.  I forget which one it was, but one of those two found reference to two different sets of matches, one Sky Chef, and one other one.  I'm almost positive that Flyjack found a 302 that stated someone actually wrote notes on one of the matchbooks.  The info is somewhere on DZ.  Maybe search matchbook, or sky chef, etc.  If you can't find the info, let me know and I'll see what I can get.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5884 on: January 03, 2021, 12:23:01 PM »
I've never seen any reference to the matches in 302's other than the original. books can be deceiving. the book about McCoy states Cooper and Tina wrote on flight plans. Tina stated it was written on the back of a pay sheet.

The matches will not get us any closer to anything IMO.

It could be in another 302 now that I think about it. FJ will post it after reading this..
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 12:29:56 PM by Shutter »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5885 on: January 03, 2021, 12:46:18 PM »
Reading what FJ posted sounds like the match cover was used to hold the notes. how could you write on something with adverts all over it and small to boot..Convey is to transport.

"He used a match cover which was used to convey notes"
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Offline Dfs346

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5886 on: January 03, 2021, 01:05:14 PM »
In the light of Mr William Mitchell's interview with KOMO TV in November 2019, I wonder whether Mr Mitchell would be amenable to enquiries relating to his testimony in 1971 to the FBI and in 2013 to the Washington State Historical Society, with appropriate respect for his privacy.

To this end, is there anyone on this forum who knows (and is willing to share) Mr Mitchell's middle initial (the initial mentioned in Geoffrey Gray's book may not be correct), and his zip code? thus permitting an enquiry by snail mail, to which he would be free to respond, or not.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5887 on: January 03, 2021, 01:07:44 PM »
He has made statements in the past of memory problems surrounding his part in what he describes in 1971. several have reached out to him..
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5888 on: January 03, 2021, 01:08:06 PM »
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Reading what FJ posted sounds like the match cover was used to hold the notes. how could you write on something with adverts all over it and small to boot..Convey is to transport.

"He used a match cover which was used to convey notes"

I agree that the matchbooks are of minor importance.  But when things turn up after 10+ years of research and contradict earlier research, I would like an explanation of where they came from.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5889 on: January 03, 2021, 01:08:57 PM »
You mean the specifics to ICS matchbooks?
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5890 on: January 03, 2021, 01:21:37 PM »
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You mean the specifics to ICS matchbooks?

I mean how did the ICS matchbooks get involved in the Cooper hijacking at this late date.

The information that FJ has posted in #63032 on DropZone contains some contradictory information.  The only note that Cooper asked to get back or apparently did get back was the original hijacking demand note which Flo took to the cockpit.  Flo stayed in the cockpit and made notes of the later conversations with Cooper as relayed by Tina.  The original hijacking note was returned to Cooper by one of the stews.

And as Shutter points out, there isn't much room on the ICS matchbooks to write anything.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5891 on: January 03, 2021, 01:22:37 PM »
DFS, contact Vicky Wilson about Mitchell. Mark Bennett also went to lunch with him. I have a photo of his ticket posted on here Vicky sent me..try those two first.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5892 on: January 03, 2021, 01:24:46 PM »
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You mean the specifics to ICS matchbooks?

I mean how did the ICS matchbooks get involved in the Cooper hijacking at this late date.

The information that FJ has posted in #63032 on DropZone contains some contradictory information.  The only note that Cooper asked to get back or apparently did get back was the original hijacking demand note which Flo took to the cockpit.  Flo stayed in the cockpit and made notes of the later conversations with Cooper as relayed by Tina.  The original hijacking note was returned to Cooper by one of the stews.

And as Shutter points out, there isn't much room on the ICS matchbooks to write anything.

If you read the quote carefully, it suggests he had the notes in the match cover..

"He used a match cover which was used to convey notes" notes, not singular..convey is to transport.
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5893 on: January 03, 2021, 01:57:39 PM »
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You mean the specifics to ICS matchbooks?

I mean how did the ICS matchbooks get involved in the Cooper hijacking at this late date.

The information that FJ has posted in #63032 on DropZone contains some contradictory information.  The only note that Cooper asked to get back or apparently did get back was the original hijacking demand note which Flo took to the cockpit.  Flo stayed in the cockpit and made notes of the later conversations with Cooper as relayed by Tina.  The original hijacking note was returned to Cooper by one of the stews.

And as Shutter points out, there isn't much room on the ICS matchbooks to write anything.

If you read the quote carefully, it suggests he had the notes in the match cover..

"He used a match cover which was used to convey notes" notes, not singular..convey is to transport.

Page 15 of Himmelsbach's book states that Cooper handed Flo a "note", singular, which she later took to the cockpit.  This note, singular, was returned to Cooper later at his request.

There is nothing in the record to show that Cooper wrote anything further during the hijacking.  No matchbooks or covers are mentioned in relation to the note or any further writings during the hijacking. 

The notes that Flo took of phone conversations that she had with Tina during the hijacking are posted on this site.  The original hijacking note written by Cooper went out with him.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5894 on: January 03, 2021, 02:04:25 PM »
I'm only quoting what is written in a 302..
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