Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1823420 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #570 on: December 21, 2014, 06:19:34 PM »
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According to Carr no radar data was ever taken from the Air Force, or at least he gave that impression. I'll look for his quote, but he says nothing was found, and he didn't think the Air Force would hand over the data.

Here is what Carr says about the radar data:

"As for the radar tapes, I cannot find where the tapes were ever given to the Bureau. All of the analysis was done by the Air Force and they most likely had their own procedures for storage of such tapes that did not include giving them to the FBI."

That is a very accurate synopsis of the matter. The FBI does not store AF records.

If the Air Force did all of the analysis in reference to the flight path, where does NWO come into play with the path? the "other really smart guys"?  :-\
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #571 on: December 22, 2014, 12:50:01 AM »
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According to Carr no radar data was ever taken from the Air Force, or at least he gave that impression. I'll look for his quote, but he says nothing was found, and he didn't think the Air Force would hand over the data.

Here is what Carr says about the radar data:

"As for the radar tapes, I cannot find where the tapes were ever given to the Bureau. All of the analysis was done by the Air Force and they most likely had their own procedures for storage of such tapes that did not include giving them to the FBI."

That is a very accurate synopsis of the matter. The FBI does not store AF records.

If the Air Force did all of the analysis in reference to the flight path, where does NWO come into play with the path? the "other really smart guys"?  :-\

Hom and R99 should answer this.

My estimate is several working groups at McChord AFB worked with a few engineers at NWA, working on different aspects of the overall problem, eg radar data and radar data interpretation, tests conducted with NWA personnel on Jan 6th, etc.  From the attached it is fairly clear the radar data was provided by the Air Force, tests were conducted on Jan 6th involving Air Force and NWA personnel with FBI personnel in attendance, wind data from the NWA Meteorology Chief  was incorporated, human body trajectory data from Boeing was used, time correlations using NWA communications tapes were consulted, and "any questions related to the above should be referred to the undersigned REDACTED Northwest Airlines".

And we know this relationship between the above parties continued well after January 6th into 1972 and probably beyond.

Hominid and R99 may have broken this down further, in answer to your question.
 
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 01:15:31 AM by georger »
 

Offline hom

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #572 on: December 22, 2014, 01:43:50 AM »
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If the Air Force did all of the analysis in reference to the flight path, where does NWO come into play with the path? the "other really smart guys"?

Hom and R99 should answer this.

Oh, all right, although you covered it well.  Here's a little different "take" on it.

The Air Force did not do "all of the analysis in reference to the flight path."  They were solely responsible for producing the big flightpath plot, and the data from which it was plotted, except I'm sure they were not the ones that put the thick neaderthal line on the plot.  Then at least a few NWA people were part of the little team that did the '72 searchzone map, itself partially "in reference to the flight path," using some of the data from the big plot.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #573 on: December 22, 2014, 02:15:35 AM »
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If the Air Force did all of the analysis in reference to the flight path, where does NWO come into play with the path? the "other really smart guys"?

Hom and R99 should answer this.

Oh, all right, although you covered it well.  Here's a little different "take" on it.

The Air Force did not do "all of the analysis in reference to the flight path."  They were solely responsible for producing the big flightpath plot, and the data from which it was plotted, except I'm sure they were not the ones that put the thick neaderthal line on the plot.  Then at least a few NWA people were part of the little team that did the '72 searchzone map, itself partially "in reference to the flight path," using some of the data from the big plot.

Very nice, as usual.

I stayed far away from naming the specific groups and people in those groups that worked the problem at McChord ... for fear of being dead wrong and not wishing to release names. I may name the groups I have later, and you or someone can tell me how totally wrong I am. I will expect the worst!    :)   :)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 02:16:23 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #574 on: December 23, 2014, 09:04:40 PM »
Looks like Tosaw spent $50,000 of his own money on looking for Cooper....

 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #575 on: December 24, 2014, 12:44:56 AM »
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Looks like Tosaw spent $50,000 of his own money on looking for Cooper....



 ... and found nothing, which is important.
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #576 on: December 24, 2014, 01:37:10 AM »
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Looks like Tosaw spent $50,000 of his own money on looking for Cooper....

 ... and found nothing, which is important.

The money at Tina Bar had apparently already been found and Tosaw assumed that it had come down the river.  Consequently, he was looking for things on the bottom of the channel.
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #577 on: December 24, 2014, 01:43:25 AM »
What did he find? .. uh-huh. >:(

How come no one talks about Alice Hancock? What happened to her in the 70's after the hijacking?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #578 on: December 24, 2014, 02:30:50 AM »
Tosaw found a pilot chute on the wooden dam just upstream from Tina Bar.

I'd love to talk with ALice, but I can't find her.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #579 on: December 24, 2014, 04:28:14 AM »
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What did he find? .. uh-huh. >:(

How come no one talks about Alice Hancock? What happened to her in the 70's after the hijacking?

We have been talking about her for years - go read the thread at DZ. 
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #580 on: December 24, 2014, 04:29:26 AM »
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Tosaw found a pilot chute on the wooden dam just upstream from Tina Bar.

I'd love to talk with ALice, but I can't find her.

No he didn't. The FBI has it. Tosaw didn't find it - someone else did. It isn't a pilot chute!
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #581 on: December 24, 2014, 01:45:02 PM »
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Tosaw found a pilot chute on the wooden dam just upstream from Tina Bar.

I'd love to talk with ALice, but I can't find her.

No he didn't. The FBI has it. Tosaw didn't find it - someone else did. It isn't a pilot chute!

As Georger knows, there was a long discussion about this chute on the other thread and I think the evidence points to it being a part of a parachute that was used with flares during artillery night time training at the Yakima Training Center which is way upstream from Tina Bar.  Somehow, it worked its way into the Columbia River and then headed downstream. 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #582 on: December 24, 2014, 04:55:23 PM »
I missed that DZ discussion.

What I know is that Galen told me a lengthy story about Tosaw finding the a 2-foot-by-three-foot pilot chute in the river upstream from T-Bar. One of Tosaw's divers found it.

Galen joined him at the site shortly thereafter, as I recall.
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #583 on: December 25, 2014, 12:43:36 PM »
Merry Christmas to all of you!

It has been my pleasure here but, the situation is becoming an impossible one.

(and a Merry Christmas to you Tina.)

 ;)


Shutter adds: Exactly how are things impossible. people ask questions when one has no answer!! you need to back up what you are saying vs running away.

« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 02:22:43 PM by shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #584 on: December 25, 2014, 01:29:49 PM »
 Thursday, November 22, 2001

By JON HAHN
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER COLUMNIST



There's some that say that Jerry Curtis drove around the block one time too many in his 30-some years as a Seattle taxi driver, but he swears one of his drive-around passengers was D.B. Cooper.

And it was about a month before the infamous Cooper's pulling off the only successful American skyjacking, on Thanksgiving Eve, 1971.

"In fact, I was probably the guy who helped him decide to do an airplane," said Jerry, "because I talked him out of robbing a West Seattle supermarket."

 Jerry, a Navy veteran who now lives on a meager disability in Granite Falls, said he has "no reason or hope of any gain by telling this now, but it should be told. I didn't put it all together until weeks after the hijacking, and I never told anyone until years later, and then they looked at me as though I said I'd seen Elvis Presley."

 Jerry sent his story on tape, then met with me in Arlington, and swears that the unidentified passenger who asked for him by name at Gray Top Cab on that Saturday afternoon in October 1971, was the same guy later identified as Dan Cooper, aka D.B. Cooper.

 "I didn't have any action going at the Mayflower Hotel then -- sometimes I'd take care of stuff for drunken seamen in town, or maybe a working lady hiding from her pimp -- but not on that day," he said. The man had used a direct line to call the cab company and asked for Jerry by name.

 After a brief back-and-forth, Jerry determined that this was the man his lawyer earlier said had been asking for someone like him. "My lawyer wouldn't say what or why," Jerry recalled. "In fact, he said only that the guy was a client who needed someone like me, but that was all he was gonna say about it."

 Long story, short: The swarthy, athletically built fellow, maybe about 6-feet and maybe in his mid-40s and dressed in a light blue leisure suit, shiny white loafers and matching belt, put $5 on the cab seat and said he wanted to ride around and talk ... about his plan for robbing a West Seattle supermarket. "He said he came here every year to do a job, then went back home over the mountains and plowed the money back into his business," Jerry said.

 "He said he was a solid citizen, belonging to the Junior Chamber of Commerce and the Lions, and that he had a wife, two kids, a station wagon and a German shepherd. His plan was to put on a pair of white overalls and rob a supermarket and then ditch the overalls so that he'd look like a businessman taking a cab ride.

 Even though the stranger offered him half of the take, Jerry nixed the idea, telling the guy that "whenever anything heavy goes down in West Seattle, the cops always block off the five or six main routes in and out of there." They talked some more as Jerry drove him back to the Mayflower Hotel, where the man ended the session by saying that he "was gonna go back home and think about doing something else. He said he had an idea about 'doing something with an airplane,'" Jerry said.

 About a month later, Jerry was driving cab again when he heard the skyjacking action on his police scanner and saw the Northwest Airlines Boeing 727 isolated to one side at Sea-Tac Airport while police and airline officials scrambled to fill a duffle bag with more than 20 pounds of used $20 bills.

 "But I didn't think any more of it till they released the composite sketch of this Cooper guy a week or so later. That was him. It was the same guy who wanted to rob a West Seattle supermarket!"

 Jerry wasn't convinced when I showed him a wire photo of Duane Web, who according to a news story last year confessed on his death bed that he was Dan Cooper. Web, who died of kidney disease in 1995, apparently filled some of the D.B. Cooper profile, including familiarity with the Puget Sound area, Army service and a criminal record that included serving time in a Seattle-area prison. My own searching was unable to link Web to the Cooper profile. And the Seattle lawyer who Jerry said referred the stranger to him has died.

 Leaving us with another chapter in Puget Sound's Thanksgiving folklore. We could call this one: "Cabbie Talks Turkey Into Stuffing West Seattle -- Coop Flies & Flees With Big Holiday Score."