Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

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Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1672783 times)

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5670 on: September 16, 2020, 04:01:33 PM »
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I am posting a link below to a Google Map showing my version of the Western Flight Path. It illustrates the fiberglass skirt find location, the placard find location, and the money find location. It depicts what I consider very close to the actual flight path.

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If you are the pilot on a hijacked airplane flying to Reno from Seattle, this seems like an ineffective route. Especially if you are trying your hardest to avoid major cities, in case the "bomb" detonates. Interesting theory, though.

The pilots were essentially flying Victor 23 all the way down. It's not as simple as pointing the jet in a straight line and flying to Reno. Also, this path enables them to avoid the major population centers of Vancouver and Portland.

This path? Essentially ?  :rofl:

This is actual history not "This path" ...... "your path" vs. "actual history"!

Which version do you want text books to carry? Which version do you want stuffed into children's minds?   The choice is history and facts vs indoctrination and myth.

"The flight path coordinates were calculated from data tape recorded at the McChord Air Defense Command Direction Center (DC).  The calculation and the plotting were almost certainly done by the McChord detachment of the 84th Radar Evaluation Squadron (RADES).   It was their job to do such analyses, and the DC were just users of the system. It was all in a day's work for them. "

sHOW US YOUR DATA TAPE ?

GEORGER you seem to think people are infallible.

I believe someone made a mistake somewhere, somehow. I believe this not because I'm a fool and decided to pull this out of my ass. Rather, there is actual physical evidence--skirt, placard, money--that are very problematic for the FBI Flight Path. Moreover, not a damn thing has been found after nearly 50 years in the FBI search area or where one may expect to find something along the FBI Flight Path.

Now if you don't want to question all of the conflicts here then great, that is your prerogative. I think very differently.

If I had to guess, I would say that the FBI Flight Path depicts not the flight path of 305, but rather the flight path of the F-106's.
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Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5671 on: September 16, 2020, 04:12:30 PM »
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If the aircraft was just a few miles east of this proposed flight path, you would be right over Vancouver and Portland. Regardless, this path still flies over suburban Portland. If the goal was to avoid major cities and populated areas while still flying west, it would make more sense to hug the coast and make a sharp turn between Portland/Salem or Salem/Eugene.

Yes, the pilots considered flying over the Pacific but ultimately decided against it. Perhaps they reasoned that DBC would consider such a move "funny stuff."

I spoke with Capt. Scott's daughter about this and she stated that knowing her father, he would have done his best to avoid flying directly over populated areas. Indeed, by flying west of downtown Portland, Capt. Scott would have done a good job of steering clear of heavily populated areas.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5672 on: September 16, 2020, 04:28:01 PM »
Rat made that comment and Rat was flying the plane......not Scott..
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5673 on: September 16, 2020, 04:36:42 PM »
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Rat made that comment and Rat was flying the plane......not Scott..

Scott was still the captain and totally responsible for determining where the airliner went.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5674 on: September 16, 2020, 04:39:47 PM »
Could someone explain how hard it must of been for them to look at the flight path vs telling them a easy straight line from a few points was all that would be needed?

appears to only have a few way points vs the air force plotting.
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Offline dudeman17

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5675 on: September 16, 2020, 04:41:05 PM »
I'm probably out of my element here. I'm not a researcher in the case, I have not read/studied anywhere near as much as the rest of you folks. But neither do I have an agenda.

But from what I have read...

Pertaining SOLELY to the placard...

Was it an internal type or external type placard? From what I have read, that has not been definitively determined.

If it was an internal type placard - Did it come off the night of the hijacking, or did it come off during the subsequent test flight. From what I've read, it was not noticed missing until after the test flight. Was the flight path, altitude, and winds identical during the two flights?

If it was an external type placard - It could have come from any plane at any time.

This leads me to believe that the placard can NOT be used to definitively confirm anything.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5676 on: September 16, 2020, 04:42:42 PM »
The test flight was over the ocean...they were going to recreate the path but settled on the ocean to drop the heavy sandbag simulations safely..
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5677 on: September 16, 2020, 04:43:22 PM »
The placard might of been missed the evening of the hijacking because the agents didn't know about it..
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 04:48:31 PM by Shutter »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5678 on: September 16, 2020, 04:46:02 PM »
Several of us question the placard..no evidence has shown if 305 had the emergency system. it's very possible it came from 305. it has been proven to be an interior placard..
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Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5679 on: September 16, 2020, 04:48:32 PM »
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I'm probably out of my element here. I'm not a researcher in the case, I have not read/studied anywhere near as much as the rest of you folks. But neither do I have an agenda.

But from what I have read...

Pertaining SOLELY to the placard...

Was it an internal type or external type placard? From what I have read, that has not been definitively determined.

If it was an internal type placard - Did it come off the night of the hijacking, or did it come off during the subsequent test flight. From what I've read, it was not noticed missing until after the test flight. Was the flight path, altitude, and winds identical during the two flights?

If it was an external type placard - It could have come from any plane at any time.

This leads me to believe that the placard can NOT be used to definitively confirm anything.

The placard came from just outside of the bulkhead door near the lever used to lower the airstairs from inside the back cone area--this was verified by way of communicating with Boeing. Therefore, the placard could only dislodge from a 727 flying with its airstairs down. The placard came from 305.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5680 on: September 16, 2020, 04:52:44 PM »
Here is a photo showing where the emergency panel is located...the placard would of been somewhere near that function..too large to post here.

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« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 04:53:05 PM by Shutter »
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Offline dudeman17

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5681 on: September 16, 2020, 04:55:09 PM »
Thank you both for educating me. I should probably just stick to reading, unless it pertains to parachutes...
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5682 on: September 16, 2020, 04:56:00 PM »
Also, Tom Kaye has been posting here recently if you have any questions..I noticed a few over at the DZ..
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5683 on: September 16, 2020, 05:39:53 PM »
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If the aircraft was just a few miles east of this proposed flight path, you would be right over Vancouver and Portland. Regardless, this path still flies over suburban Portland. If the goal was to avoid major cities and populated areas while still flying west, it would make more sense to hug the coast and make a sharp turn between Portland/Salem or Salem/Eugene.

Yes, the pilots considered flying over the Pacific but ultimately decided against it. Perhaps they reasoned that DBC would consider such a move "funny stuff."

I spoke with Capt. Scott's daughter about this and she stated that knowing her father, he would have done his best to avoid flying directly over populated areas. Indeed, by flying west of downtown Portland, Capt. Scott would have done a good job of steering clear of heavily populated areas.

Yes, the pilots considered flying over the Pacific ...

No. Was said in gest! That was never a serious alternative suggested. It was a remark only - cannot be used to say anything about the fp they took.

Have you seen a 302 which explains why they took V23? Or any 302 that mentions going out over the Pacific ?
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5684 on: September 16, 2020, 05:47:50 PM »
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I am posting a link below to a Google Map showing my version of the Western Flight Path. It illustrates the fiberglass skirt find location, the placard find location, and the money find location. It depicts what I consider very close to the actual flight path.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

If you are the pilot on a hijacked airplane flying to Reno from Seattle, this seems like an ineffective route. Especially if you are trying your hardest to avoid major cities, in case the "bomb" detonates. Interesting theory, though.

The pilots were essentially flying Victor 23 all the way down. It's not as simple as pointing the jet in a straight line and flying to Reno. Also, this path enables them to avoid the major population centers of Vancouver and Portland.

This path? Essentially ?  :rofl:

This is actual history not "This path" ...... "your path" vs. "actual history"!

Which version do you want text books to carry? Which version do you want stuffed into children's minds?   The choice is history and facts vs indoctrination and myth.

"The flight path coordinates were calculated from data tape recorded at the McChord Air Defense Command Direction Center (DC).  The calculation and the plotting were almost certainly done by the McChord detachment of the 84th Radar Evaluation Squadron (RADES).   It was their job to do such analyses, and the DC were just users of the system. It was all in a day's work for them. "

sHOW US YOUR DATA TAPE ?

GEORGER you seem to think people are infallible.

I believe someone made a mistake somewhere, somehow. I believe this not because I'm a fool and decided to pull this out of my ass. Rather, there is actual physical evidence--skirt, placard, money--that are very problematic for the FBI Flight Path. Moreover, not a damn thing has been found after nearly 50 years in the FBI search area or where one may expect to find something along the FBI Flight Path.

Now if you don't want to question all of the conflicts here then great, that is your prerogative. I think very differently.

If I had to guess, I would say that the FBI Flight Path depicts not the flight path of 305, but rather the flight path of the F-106's.

Your speculations are some mental exercise on your part. 

I am interested in history and what actually happened. Big difference. The longer this case goes, the fewer the people actually available, the more things will shift to entertaining speculations and TV programs like - Ancient Aliens - Mystery from Space - etc all on your History Channel. I read nonfiction.
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