Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case (Read 1673525 times)

dudeman17 · « **Reply #5535 on:** May 05, 2020, 11:30:18 PM »

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So Emerick was a serial murderer ?

Geez, I don't know, I'm just speculating how it might have happened. Murderer? Again considering the politically motivated terrorists who were hijacking planes in that era, if an FBI sharpshooter had taken Cooper out, would the nation have been in mourning? Serial? Who else would Emerick have killed? Cossey? For giving away his pilot rigs?

Yes, that was all a joke.

More speculation - IF it was the case that they were worried that Cooper might make Tina jump, having one of the reserves be inoperable might discourage that.

georger · « **Reply #5536 on:** May 05, 2020, 11:39:57 PM »

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So Emerick was a serial murderer ?

Geez, I don't know, I'm just speculating how it might have happened. Murderer? Again considering the politically motivated terrorists who were hijacking planes in that era, if an FBI sharpshooter had taken Cooper out, would the nation have been in mourning? Serial? Who else would Emerick have killed? Cossey? For giving away his pilot rigs?

Yes, that was all a joke.

More speculation - IF it was the case that they were worried that Cooper might make Tina jump, having one of the reserves be inoperable might discourage that.

More speculation: Well at least he didn't put anthrax on the chutes! Or a bomb inside... I guess Emerick did his best to ignore all conventions and instructions in order to assert HIMSELF as the top priority in the DB Cooper hijacking ...... just cause he found himself with the opportunity and needed a minute of fame! Hmmm.

dudeman17 · « **Reply #5537 on:** May 05, 2020, 11:50:59 PM »

Is there such a crime as attempted negligent homicide?

georger · « **Reply #5538 on:** May 06, 2020, 12:00:10 AM »

FLYJACK former enemy of Joe Weber and Snowmman, asserts:

FLYJACK
#61818
4 hours ago

Surprise,, not really,

Georger and Robert99, the senior AMATEUR Cooper sleuths get their facts wrong again.. make up stuff, roll over and pat each other on the belly high on each others toxic arrogance.

Cooper demanded Mexico AFTER Al Lee was next to the plane AFTER the money was delivered AFTER the passengers left and AFTER the parachutes were onboard.

Ignore these two, they have nothing to offer except misinformation and ignorance.

"The flight stairs were positioned at the front door of the aircraft and TINA left the airplane
and approached the car occupied by LEE, where she picked up the money, parachutes, food, maps and radio for cockpit communication."

The proof below.

Robert99 · « **Reply #5539 on:** May 06, 2020, 01:13:16 AM »

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FLYJACK former enemy of Joe Weber and Snowmman, asserts:

FLYJACK
#61818
4 hours ago

Surprise,, not really,

Georger and Robert99, the senior AMATEUR Cooper sleuths get their facts wrong again.. make up stuff, roll over and pat each other on the belly high on each others toxic arrogance.

Cooper demanded Mexico AFTER Al Lee was next to the plane AFTER the money was delivered AFTER the passengers left and AFTER the parachutes were onboard.

Ignore these two, they have nothing to offer except misinformation and ignorance.

"The flight stairs were positioned at the front door of the aircraft and TINA left the airplane
and approached the car occupied by LEE, where she picked up the money, parachutes, food, maps and radio for cockpit communication."

The proof below.

Flyjack is full of baloney. The source he quotes is second or third hand information at best. Or to put it another way, heresy. Why would Cooper need a "radio for cockpit communication" since he had been having Tina use the interphone to communicate with the cockpit?

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #5540 on:** May 06, 2020, 03:01:30 AM »

I believe they have. In fact, I hear that Danny visits there frequently.

georger · « **Reply #5541 on:** May 06, 2020, 03:04:29 AM »

FJ has spent more time digging thru files than almost anyone else and I applaud it when he finds things and shares his work - but I often don;t agree with his "interpretations" and his "extrapolations" ... which more often than not favor his suspect. He claims his approach is logical ... vs others who are "making stuff up". I get a kick out of that because FJ is as guilty of making stuff up as anyone, and perhaps more so. But he will back down, or simply retreat from a stand, or say it was only a theory, when confronted by facts! He has been forced to that position many times .... so nothing has changed since he surfaced in 2010. I do applaud his work and look forward to reading his posts, and I bring some of his posts here because they are worth sharing with others in order to get comment. We are far better off with him than without him in spite of his arrogance ...

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #5542 on:** May 06, 2020, 03:09:00 AM »

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... The back chutes he got were not sport mains, but pilot emergency bailout rigs....

... just go to the local flight service, those guys know Hayden so that's where they get the back chutes...

Can you clarify this Dude Man, please.

Hayden told me the chutes he gave to NWO were sport parachutes. Where did you get "pilot emergency bailout rigs." I know that Cossey talks NB6s and NB8s, and the FBI's 302s are a tad confusing. As a result, I'm just trying to keep the facts as straight as we can - at least for a moment.

georger · « **Reply #5543 on:** May 06, 2020, 02:36:20 PM »

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... The back chutes he got were not sport mains, but pilot emergency bailout rigs....

... just go to the local flight service, those guys know Hayden so that's where they get the back chutes...

Can you clarify this Dude Man, please.

Hayden told me the chutes he gave to NWO were sport parachutes. Where did you get "pilot emergency bailout rigs." I know that Cossey talks NB6s and NB8s, and the FBI's 302s are a tad confusing. As a result, I'm just trying to keep the facts as straight as we can - at least for a moment.

FJ claims to have the chute stories sorted out - why is nobody following FJ's lead/conclusions on the chutes?

Tina apparently failed to ask Cooper clearly, WHY he was asking for so many chutes (4 chutes) ... the answer may be 'redundancy' (covering his options if anything went wrong). If redundancy is the reason he ordered 4 chutes then that goes to Cooper's mindset and possibly his background. I tend to believe that was his reasoning and this may be a window into his life experience and if that is true then the FAA Psychiatrist was flat out wrong, while the FBI files indicated their persona for Cooper had settled on a technically trained and competent person/skydiver who had experience!

Shutter · « **Reply #5544 on:** May 06, 2020, 06:27:25 PM »

Bruce, the rigger i spoke with a month ago seen the chute and described it as a military surplus and by no means a luxury chute. I dont think hayden was familiar with chutes at all..he didnt like using them..

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #5545 on:** May 06, 2020, 06:53:08 PM »

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Bruce, the rigger i spoke with a month ago seen the chute and described it as a military surplus and by no means a luxury chute. I dont think hayden was familiar with chutes at all..he didnt like using them..

The "chute" we're talking about here is the Pioneer/ Steinthaul that Hayden showed me and then sold to the WSHM?

When and where did your rigger see it?

I agree with you that Norman Hayden knows little about parachutes. However, he's not un-familiar with them and certainly knows how to use them, but he is not an "expert" in the usual sense of that term. Yes, I agree with you and he "didn't like using them." When I spoke with Norman in 2012, he told me that he had never used one. He doesn't skydive at all, and has never had any interest in "leaving a perfectly good airplane in flight," as he told me.

As for calling the Pioneer/Steinthaul a "luxury" chute, that is Cossey's characterization of his civilian parachute. Adding to the confusion, Cossey says his civilian chute was a Pioneer/Steinthaul, too!!!

Now - are we talking about the same parachute here? I don't know. Cossey says that his civilian chute was NEVER returned to him by the FBI, and Hayden says that his was - as we know from all the drama concerning Norman's law suit and the FBI's consequent bad behavior.

As a result, it is fair to assume that we're talking about TWO different Pioneer/Steinthauls here - Hayden's and Cossey's. Or Earl Cossey was lying - and there is only one Pioneer/Steinthaul in question - and the FBI screwed up the paper work regarding the parachutes.

Lastly, and remember, Hayden says that he gave NWO two identical parachutes, presumably both were Pioneer/Steinthauls. Were either of them "military surplus," as your rigger claims? I don't know.

What I do know is that when I saw Norman and his parachute, he never said they were military surplus. Further, Bruce Thun, the parachute jump expert who accompanied me, never characterized the chute we saw as a military surplus parachute. In addition, I'm not sure how one knows a civilian surplus chute from a military surplus chute, but presumably the military chute will be in olive-drab green, as the NB8s and NB6s are usually found.

When you can, Shut, please ask your rigger friend to give me a call and we can take this conversation a little further. Or give me his contact information and I'll continue the quest.

dudeman17 · « **Reply #5546 on:** May 07, 2020, 07:39:28 PM »

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... The back chutes he got were not sport mains, but pilot emergency bailout rigs....

... just go to the local flight service, those guys know Hayden so that's where they get the back chutes...

Can you clarify this Dude Man, please.

Hayden told me the chutes he gave to NWO were sport parachutes. Where did you get "pilot emergency bailout rigs." I know that Cossey talks NB6s and NB8s, and the FBI's 302s are a tad confusing. As a result, I'm just trying to keep the facts as straight as we can - at least for a moment.

Sure.

First, I'll clarify me. I am NOT a researcher in this case. I haven't read all the FBI docs, I don't study tie particles, flight paths, or money rot. I'm just an old skydiver who's always been fascinated with the case so I follow along. Most of what I think I know about it comes from reading folks such as yourselves on forums such as this one. I am an experienced skydiver. I've been jumping since '79, been an instructor since '90, and am/will be as current as the shutdowns allow. I am not a rigger, certainly wasn't one in '71, so I can't define specific details on specific models, but I do have a good general working knowledge of them. When I started, students and newer jumpers used the same type of old 'gutter gear' that was prevalent in Cooper's era.

It's my understanding that things happened as I described. When the FBI went looking for parachutes, one of the places they went was one of the local flight services on the airport. That's where they came up with Hayden, because the flight service knew him and knew he had chutes. Hayden was not a skydiver. He was a pilot who liked to fly aerobatics. The FAA requires aerobatic pilots to wear parachutes. The rigs they wear are not skydiving mains, but emergency bailout rigs. When Hayden told you his rigs were 'sport' rigs, he was probably saying that they were for civilian sport pilots, as opposed to military ones. The military has/had many types of emergency rigs. Some were the same/similar backpack rigs. As described elsewhere, some were the type where the crewman wore the harness, then would hook the chute onto it if needed, similar to front reserves. There were older types known as 'seat packs', where the canopy was in a flat square container located on the pilot's butt, that also served as his seat cushion. And, of course there are higher speed jet ejection systems, and the harnesses/containers/chutes are designed specifically for that particular system.

A couple other differences between bailout rigs and skydiving mains: Skydiving mains have the D-rings sewn into the harness, where the front reserves attach. Bailout rigs do not have D-rings. You don't attach a reserve to a bailout rig because a bailout rig IS a reserve. Bailout rigs and skydiving reserves are required to be packed by a licensed FAA rigger. As such, they have pack-and-data cards, and rigger's seals. Skydiving mains do not have cards or seals, they are usually just packed by the person jumping them.

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #5547 on:** May 07, 2020, 10:38:46 PM »

Are you saying, Dude, that the Pioneer/Steinthaul rig that Norman Hayden showed me is a "pilot's emergency bailout rig?"

Also, btw, when I met Norman, he never described his Pioneer/Steinthaul as a "sports" parachute. Not sure why you're saying that he did. Maybe he told someone else?

But I do see that you are making a clear distinction between a "skydiving main" and a "pilot's bailout rig" based upon whether one has a "D" ring or not. I had never heard that distention before.

Part of my confusion is over the nature of a "Pilot's bailout rig." I had only heard that term used to describe the NB8s and NB6s.

While we're on the subject, what do you think of Earl Cossey and his statements about the chutes?

Robert99 · « **Reply #5548 on:** May 08, 2020, 12:13:39 AM »

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Are you saying, Dude, that the Pioneer/Steinthaul rig that Norman Hayden showed me is a "pilot's emergency bailout rig?"

Also, btw, when I met Norman, he never described his Pioneer/Steinthaul as a "sports" parachute. Not sure why you're saying that he did. Maybe he told someone else?

But I do see that you are making a clear distinction between a "skydiving main" and a "pilot's bailout rig" based upon whether one has a "D" ring or not. I had never heard that distention before.

Part of my confusion is over the nature of a "Pilot's bailout rig." I had only heard that term used to describe the NB8s and NB6s.

While we're on the subject, what do you think of Earl Cossey and his statements about the chutes?

Bruce, let me jump in here. Dudeman17 has got it right. Regardless of how Hayden described his parachutes, they were "pilot's emergency bailout rigs".

As an FAA certified rigger, Cossey could do a lot of things with parachutes and parachute equipment in addition to simply repacking parachutes. Based on the surviving Hayden parachute, it looks like Cossey had access to plenty of military surplus parts for parachutes. This military surplus equipment would also meet FAA standards. When Cossey assembled Hayden's parachutes with parts from various sources, packed them, and placed his rigger's lead seal on the the threads at the last pin of the rip chord, then filled out and signed the repacking card and placed it in its pocket, those parachutes became emergency bailout rigs.

NB6s and NB8s were always emergency bailout rigs when packed by an FAA rigger who placed his lead seal at the appropriate place and filled out and signed the repacking card. Whether or not they had D rings on the front of the harness is not relevant.

There is no such thing as a "luxury" parachute unless someone is simply referring to a very expensive parachute.

Unsurelock · « **Reply #5549 on:** May 08, 2020, 01:42:07 AM »

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Another Cooper Treasure Hunt

The author of HA, HA, HA, who name I do not know... I've spoken with the author a couple of years ago, and here's what I know.

The author grew up in Vancouver, WA, and wrote HA, HA, HA based upon what he could glean from newspaper accounts at the public library, and coupled that with what he thought was Cooper's back story, heavily influence by his speculation that Cooper was a criminal. The back story has a 50's TV feel to it.

I'm curious - In your talk with him, did he address why, in his version, he has Cooper jumping not over Washington, but later, on the approach to Reno?

Here are some tidbits from my notes, as I decipher my handwriting....

1. Author will respond to correspondence at:

PO Box 2069
Mt. Vernon, WA

2. Author stated that all of his DB Cooper "facts" came from public sources, such as newspapers and TV broadcasts. I assume that means the jump in Reno, too.

3. Diane estimates the author to be in his late 70s.

4. Author says that he doesn't want "any more heat from the FBI." Not sure what kind of heat he has experienced, but his story sounds convoluted. There is a drama concerning who printed the first 25,000 copies, and where 14,000 copies went. Author and Diane currently have 11,000 copies to sell. Diane said there was a lot of media interest when the book was published in the early 1980s and the FBI got involved. Diane said the feds prevented their scheduled appearance on the Letterman Show in 1983.

5. Author says that he is masking his identity to protect his current business interests. He says he is "very public."

Bruce, do you remember the first Expedition Unknown telecast on the Cooper matter? If you are having a hard time remembering it, just remember that you were in it as were a couple of other people on this thread. If my memory is correct, the producers of that telecast stated in the program that the Cooper jump at Reno scenario was suggested by a former FBI agent in the Seattle area.

I have never heard of anyone else suggesting a jump at Reno. So maybe this is the same fellow.

The agent in that Expedition Unknown episode is Greg Hall.

Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case (Read 1673525 times)

dudeman17

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

dudeman17

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Robert99

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Bruce A. Smith

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Bruce A. Smith

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Shutter

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Bruce A. Smith

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

dudeman17

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Bruce A. Smith

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Robert99

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Unsurelock

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case