Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1823248 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #540 on: December 17, 2014, 08:34:05 PM »
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I think so.

I think I saw a seating chart posted somewhere in the exhibit. You could ask the WSHM, as they follow these discussions, at least for a time at the DZ, but they are difficult to connect with directly.  My numerous efforts to talk with the curators has been maddening. Emails and phone calls go unanswered.  However, the marketing people call back within the hour....


Sounds like an email to WSHS is in order  :-\
 

Offline hom

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #541 on: December 17, 2014, 08:50:51 PM »
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Well, all I can figure is that the PEP has something to do with a maximum number of elections filling their so-called orbitals. Hence, it may mean that we can only have so many eye-witnesses sitting in Row 18.

It's wonderful how research into one area (e.g., Cooper case) can lead to solutions of problems that have plagued mankind for years, like elections.  It's a wonder mankind makes any progress (assuming it does). :)
 

Offline hom

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #542 on: December 17, 2014, 09:09:37 PM »
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I think I saw a seating chart posted somewhere in the exhibit. You could ask the WSHM, as they follow these discussions, at least for a time at the DZ, but they are difficult to connect with directly.  My numerous efforts to talk with the curators has been maddening. Emails and phone calls go unanswered.  However, the marketing people call back within the hour....

Sounds like an email to WSHS is in order  :-\

Is someone there an ex NWA employee?  Is there anything that would make the kids there authorities on the NWA seating chart applicable to flight 305?  If someone were to give them a NWA seating chart and tell them with authority that it was THE seating chart, they would be happy to believe it and add it to the collection.  They have no basis on which to evaluate any "expert" claims.   I doubt that even the NWA history center could provide something proveable on the matter.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #543 on: December 18, 2014, 12:07:17 AM »
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I think so.

I think I saw a seating chart posted somewhere in the exhibit. You could ask the WSHM, as they follow these discussions, at least for a time at the DZ, but they are difficult to connect with directly.  My numerous efforts to talk with the curators has been maddening. Emails and phone calls go unanswered.  However, the marketing people call back within the hour....

email them and ask - would be good to have...
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #544 on: December 18, 2014, 01:57:23 AM »
You email 'em, please. I'm not feeling lucky.
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #545 on: December 18, 2014, 03:25:33 AM »
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What the Hell, these facts are really screwing up theory man. >:(


You brought the Pauli Exclusion principle up, I didn't.

What does it have to do with the Cooper case? How does it apply - - - to what?


Okay, sorry for the delay as I don't want to peruse physics here unless it's a new thread. Try to understand, in general, I post between 1-3am when anything might fall out of my brain =P

I was about to argue that my allusion to the PEP was a classic solid mechanic reference to two objects (briefcase, money) can't occupy the same space but really upon reflection, that principle is related to a pure quantum concept of spin, not mass per se, so it's more specific and less general, like you couldn't make an analogous exclusion at classical scales. I'm not going to elaborate cause it will hijack (wah-wahhhh) the thread… my bad.

Who turned out the lights in here?
 

Offline hom

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #546 on: December 18, 2014, 02:09:42 PM »
Here's a pic of another of those seat assignment sticker charts.  This one liberated from NWA at O'hare airport.  I've added a few clarifying notations.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 02:10:47 PM by hom »
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #547 on: December 19, 2014, 12:08:09 AM »
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Here's a pic of another of those seat assignment sticker charts.  This one liberated from NWA at O'hare airport.  I've added a few clarifying notations.

good find ....

did you get the files from Dave you wanted ... if not I can send tonight.
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #548 on: December 20, 2014, 07:29:33 PM »
I am just forever stuck in this whirlpool of thought. Despite the bomb there's no aggression. Even with the bomb, if it is real, there's no explosion. Only the threat. Quite the contrary. Cooper has no desire to inflict harm to anyone except himself. He let's his hostages go. He doesn't even want them worried. He orders food for the staff. If it is true, he offers Tina some money. He does no harm to the aircraft. There's no signs of distress. He's polite, calm, mostly in control. That only leaves us one option. Punishment and justice.

He's been a good kid, he's learned the issue of fair play, when to apologize. It's evident in his ability on the aircraft with the crew to negotiate, to respect Tina, he accepts facts from the flight crew as believable. Cooper knows how to co-operate with others and it is obvious to me, essential to his revenge. But he's been hurt badly, maybe even worse, he's been shamed and considers himself, whether justified or not, at fault.

Cooper wants vengeance on the banks. They've wronged him. It's evident in the "negotiable currency." There is a good chance, look t the whole ancient ISIS bullshit, "a stain upon myself is a stain upon the whole population." Cooper's revenge could be a family matter(?) The rules of Cooper's justice is to punish who he feels guilty. Exonerate himself without any penalty, which is why he hasn't been caught, and deters anyone from harming him again. Stopping people by "drawing the curtain," "staying up front" to extract a personal revenge in an arena of public revenge, for all to see.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #549 on: December 20, 2014, 09:04:19 PM »
Whew, and folks think I'm out there.
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #550 on: December 20, 2014, 09:54:16 PM »
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I am just forever stuck in this whirlpool of thought. Despite the bomb there's no aggression. Even with the bomb, if it is real, there's no explosion. Only the threat. Quite the contrary. Cooper has no desire to inflict harm to anyone except himself. He let's his hostages go. He doesn't even want them worried. He orders food for the staff. If it is true, he offers Tina some money. He does no harm to the aircraft. There's no signs of distress. He's polite, calm, mostly in control. That only leaves us one option. Punishment and justice.

He's been a good kid, he's learned the issue of fair play, when to apologize. It's evident in his ability on the aircraft with the crew to negotiate, to respect Tina, he accepts facts from the flight crew as believable. Cooper knows how to co-operate with others and it is obvious to me, essential to his revenge. But he's been hurt badly, maybe even worse, he's been shamed and considers himself, whether justified or not, at fault.

Cooper wants vengeance on the banks. They've wronged him. It's evident in the "negotiable currency." There is a good chance, look t the whole ancient ISIS bullshit, "a stain upon myself is a stain upon the whole population." Cooper's revenge could be a family matter(?) The rules of Cooper's justice is to punish who he feels guilty. Exonerate himself without any penalty, which is why he hasn't been caught, and deters anyone from harming him again. Stopping people by "drawing the curtain," "staying up front" to extract a personal revenge in an arena of public revenge, for all to see.

Hold your horses for a second here.  Cooper DID NOT "accept facts from the flight crew as believable", or at least not all of them.  He argued with Rataczak about partially lowering the stairs before take-off.  Rataczak told Cooper that the aircraft could not take off with the stairs hanging down, and eventually Cooper agreed to leave them up, but he immediately told Tina that he knew the aircraft could take-off with the stairs down.

Cooper didn't get any vengeance on the banks.  NWA's insurance company had to pay most of the $200,000 ransom money (after a court battle) and NWA had to make up the rest of the money.  And the whole hijacking was definitely an inconvenience for NWA and their personnel and customers.  Cooper told Tina that he did not have anything against NWA.

The most likely reason that Cooper hasn't been caught is that he died in the jump and his body simply has not been found.
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #551 on: December 20, 2014, 09:54:48 PM »
Haha ... dude, it's out there. Blow holes in it for me.

One day I went on my lunch hour to deposit a pay cheque in my bank. I had just moved.
Three hours later, I returned to work.
"Where have you been?"
"The bank, I was depositing a cheque. That's when the bank was robbed. The cops locked us all in."

Later. I did some research on bank robbery. i'm not sure exactly where but 2000 criminals in jail were approached to tell their stories. Something like 500 mentioned money as a strong promoter for their crime. The rest mentioned revenge.

I think it's Carr(?) who said "who you make that jump?"or something to that degree. Part of a bank robber's profile is revenge on themselves, punishment (including self inflicted violence such as death by cop etc) for their "fault."
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #552 on: December 20, 2014, 10:08:46 PM »
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Hold your horses for a second here.  Cooper DID NOT "accept facts from the flight crew as believable", or at least not all of them.  He argued with Rataczak about partially lowering the stairs before take-off.  Rataczak told Cooper that the aircraft could not take off with the stairs hanging down, and eventually Cooper agreed to leave them up, but he immediately told Tina that he knew the aircraft could take-off with the stairs down.


Okay, 1) source? 2) I guess Cooper argued that but when that plane took off were the stairs up or down and if they were up, which skyjacker accepted that idea?
Quote
Cooper didn't get any vengeance on the banks. 

How do you know that?
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #553 on: December 20, 2014, 10:11:24 PM »
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Hold your horses for a second here.  Cooper DID NOT "accept facts from the flight crew as believable", or at least not all of them.  He argued with Rataczak about partially lowering the stairs before take-off.  Rataczak told Cooper that the aircraft could not take off with the stairs hanging down, and eventually Cooper agreed to leave them up, but he immediately told Tina that he knew the aircraft could take-off with the stairs down.


Okay, 1) source? 2) I guess Cooper argued that but when that plane took off were the stairs up or down and if they were up, which skyjacker accepted that idea?
Quote
Cooper didn't get any vengeance on the banks. 

How do you know that?

The argument about the aft stairs is in Tosaw's book.  The banks didn't suffer in any matter from the hijacking.
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #554 on: December 20, 2014, 10:56:51 PM »
"Cooper agreed to leave them up, but he immediately told Tina that he knew the aircraft could take-off with the stairs down."

Did Tosaw give a footnote to his origin on this? Did he quote it as the interview with Tina?

The bank gave Cooper the money. Later they got reimbursed. At the time of the crime, a bank gave Cooper the money, although at the time it could be argued that the money came through NWO, if (it's a big if) Cooper's grudge was with some bank, then justice was restored.

While I have your attention, why did 305, so right in their hijacking procedures, somewhat aware of Cooper bail time, fly through Portland? I notice on the FBI map there are a few "x".s next to flight path at this point? Did they veer away from a populated city or stick to V23?