Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1673895 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5355 on: April 03, 2020, 08:22:35 PM »
As The Godfather (Thank you, Nicky, smile...) I think it wise to hold both options in consideration, ie: 1. he wanted/needed money; 2. he was making some kind of statement.

Eric, you got me thinking, ie: that you couldn't think of a single bank robber who robbed a bank for reasons others than getting money. Of course, I can think of a ton of TV shows that offer different reasons, but I can't think of a single bank robber in Real Life who stole the money for reasons other than the money.

But I'm pondering!
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5356 on: April 04, 2020, 01:44:48 AM »
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As The Godfather (Thank you, Nicky, smile...) I think it wise to hold both options in consideration, ie: 1. he wanted/needed money; 2. he was making some kind of statement.

Eric, you got me thinking, ie: that you couldn't think of a single bank robber who robbed a bank for reasons others than getting money. Of course, I can think of a ton of TV shows that offer different reasons, but I can't think of a single bank robber in Real Life who stole the money for reasons other than the money.

But I'm pondering!

Or blew up a bank?  Evidently you and EU missed the 70s!   :bravo:

Our only hope is to settle in and be lectured to by EU and the other guy ...... for eternity or until we are all dead!  :chr2:  :offtopicman:
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 02:15:53 AM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5357 on: April 04, 2020, 11:24:03 AM »
The following is a complete list of what was required for DB Cooper to successfully skyjack and extort 305.

1) Knowledge: He had to be familiar with the Boeing 727 in several areas from flap settings to the airstairs.

2) Skills: He had to have been comfortable and experienced skydiving, perhaps even landing and trekking in a forested region.

3) Stones: Dreaming a plan like his up and actually executing the plan requires a degree of stones.

4) Headstart: By getting a several hour jump on the authorities he was given time to move freely and escape long before the search began.

With the four items listed above the race was over before it began. As long as he doesn't brag about the feat or recklessly spend the ransom, he's home free.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Unsurelock

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5358 on: April 04, 2020, 08:23:11 PM »
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The following is a complete list of what was required for DB Cooper to successfully skyjack and extort 305.

1) Knowledge: He had to be familiar with the Boeing 727 in several areas from flap settings to the airstairs.

2) Skills: He had to have been comfortable and experienced skydiving, perhaps even landing and trekking in a forested region.

3) Stones: Dreaming a plan like his up and actually executing the plan requires a degree of stones.

4) Headstart: By getting a several hour jump on the authorities he was given time to move freely and escape long before the search began.

With the four items listed above the race was over before it began. As long as he doesn't brag about the feat or recklessly spend the ransom, he's home free.

5) Road flares
6) No fingerprints on file with the FBI
7) A stewardess who doesn't panic and scream "YOU HAVE A BOMB IN YOUR BRIEFCASE?? AHHH!!!"
7.5) a group of passengers who don't immediately pummel him as a result
8) A stewardess who also doesn't get off of the plane when every other crew member realizes there is an opportunity to walk off and let the feds take this guy out.
9) An airline who decides to pay the ransom against the FBI's advice
10) A parachute that doesn't contain any tracker in it, as could have been the case
11) Not a single witness to the descent of a parachute, either on land or by one of the two pilots following him
12) kind of everything

All of the other skyjackers who were caught had those four things, by the way.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5359 on: April 05, 2020, 12:49:56 AM »
After building a couple fake bombs I have to wonder if it was real. most, not all road flares have writing on them. railroad flares look the best. vintage one's (60's - 70's) wood dowels covered with construction paper is very convincing. red dynamite was made and still is..the thing that bothers me was Cooper having his hand in the briefcase a majority of time. was he controlling another wire or did he have something else for backup?

Cooper did show signs of knowledge with dynamite by stating radio signal could set it off. that was and still is a common threat with electrical detonators. I don't believe his configuration could be set off but he knew.

most dynamite you see is tan in color. I took a common grocery bag and wrapped it around a wood dowel and it looked pretty good. I then sprayed a couple layers of clear coat paint to give it a wax look. wax was used to limit any sparks getting on the dynamite. the stick looks as close as one can get to an actual stick of dynamite IMO.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 09:21:58 AM by Shutter »
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5360 on: April 05, 2020, 12:51:49 AM »
Contrary to popular misinformation, spread by FLYJACK at DZ, the Cooper hijacking occurred near the end of the third year (1971) in a four year cluster of the highest number of domestic skyjackings in history ( 1968-1972). Contrary to popular belief, the DB Cooper hijacking was not a rarity and not unique, but falls squarely within this cluster of the highest number of skyjackings in history!   see chart   These skyjackings parallel political unrest in the USA and the world during the same time period, involving the Vietnam War, the loss of Cuba, Saudi Oil Embargo 1977, US Recession, Nixon debacle, etc. 

The years involving the most casualties associated with skyjacking were:  1972-73, 1977, 1985-87, 1990, 1996, and 2001 (9/11 hijackings).

FLYJACK assures us that the Cooper hijacking was only for money and had no political component in spite of Cooper having said: "I have a grudge, but not against your airlines".  FLYJACK apparently discounts that Cooper ever said this!

In spite of FLYJACK's claim that few hijackings had political overtones and most were for money, there were in fact 137 skyjackings between 1968-1972 which includes the Cooper hijacking. Destinations filed by the hijacker during this period were: 90 Cuba, 4 Mexico (includes Cooper), and 3 no destination specified. see chart  Of the total 137 hijackings during this period, only 26 involved extortion (a demand for money). The rest were political, personal, or undefined! 

Source material for this post may be found here:

Federal Air Marshal Service
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Aircraft hijacking
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Airline hijackings 1945-2015
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Criminal Acts against Civil Aviation – A Survey  [Report AD-A258-760] Dec 17, 1992.
FAA Office of Civil Aviation
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« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 01:15:28 AM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5361 on: April 05, 2020, 03:25:18 AM »
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The following is a complete list of what was required for DB Cooper to successfully skyjack and extort 305.

1) Knowledge: He had to be familiar with the Boeing 727 in several areas from flap settings to the airstairs.

2) Skills: He had to have been comfortable and experienced skydiving, perhaps even landing and trekking in a forested region.

3) Stones: Dreaming a plan like his up and actually executing the plan requires a degree of stones.

4) Headstart: By getting a several hour jump on the authorities he was given time to move freely and escape long before the search began.

With the four items listed above the race was over before it began. As long as he doesn't brag about the feat or recklessly spend the ransom, he's home free.

I would add a bomb to the list. It was a game changer, in the words of Ralph Himmelsbach.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5362 on: April 05, 2020, 03:33:05 AM »
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The following is a complete list of what was required for DB Cooper to successfully skyjack and extort 305.

1) Knowledge: He had to be familiar with the Boeing 727 in several areas from flap settings to the airstairs.

2) Skills: He had to have been comfortable and experienced skydiving, perhaps even landing and trekking in a forested region.

3) Stones: Dreaming a plan like his up and actually executing the plan requires a degree of stones.

4) Headstart: By getting a several hour jump on the authorities he was given time to move freely and escape long before the search began.

With the four items listed above the race was over before it began. As long as he doesn't brag about the feat or recklessly spend the ransom, he's home free.

I would add a bomb to the list. It was a game changer, in the words of Ralph Himmelsbach.

Really? Bombs a game changer starting when!  ;) Then you and Himms would be wrong from a global perspective. You are late to the game, sir!  :nono:  Cooper Koolaide is not TRUTH!   ;D

Timeline of airliner bombing attacks -  Commercial passenger airliners and cargo aircraft have been the subject of plots or attacks by bombs and fire since the near the start of air travel. Many early bombings were suicides or schemes for insurance money, but in the latter part of the 20th century, assassination and political and religious militant terrorism became the dominant motive for attacking and threatening large commercial jets with bombs. One list describes 86 cases related to airliner bombings, 53 of them resulting in deaths.[1]

This is a chronological list of airliner bombing attacks. All entries on the list should have their own article. Explosions deemed to have not resulted from a bomb should not be included on this list. Bombings of small light aircraft and air taxis and failed bombing plots may not be notable for inclusion. Commercial airliners contracted to military use may be included on this list, but bombings of military transport aircraft should not.

For airliners brought down by gunfire or missile attacks rather than terrorist bombings or sabotage, see List of airliner shootdown incidents.

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and: Commercial Airline Bombing History   You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Note* the Cooper hijacking isnt even on the list! No damage done. But the threat of a bomb and fire was part of the crime. And, stats on people just demanding money (extortion) suggests those people usually dont resort to a bomb! On the other hand stats may suggest a very strong association between people choosing a bomb and strong political motivation. Still researching that. It appears you and Ulis and FLYJACK have a lot to learn. I doubt you will. 

My feeling is this is going right over your head . . .
« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 04:42:48 AM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5363 on: April 05, 2020, 09:51:25 AM »
GEORGER I'm not sure what your point is with all of the above...Are you saying that DBC was not motivated by the $200 K and merely wanted to make a political statement?

OK, have it. Enlighten me. What political statement did he make?

I mean, what the hell good is a political statement if it goes unnoticed?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5364 on: April 05, 2020, 09:58:43 AM »
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The following is a complete list of what was required for DB Cooper to successfully skyjack and extort 305.

1) Knowledge: He had to be familiar with the Boeing 727 in several areas from flap settings to the airstairs.

2) Skills: He had to have been comfortable and experienced skydiving, perhaps even landing and trekking in a forested region.

3) Stones: Dreaming a plan like his up and actually executing the plan requires a degree of stones.

4) Headstart: By getting a several hour jump on the authorities he was given time to move freely and escape long before the search began.

With the four items listed above the race was over before it began. As long as he doesn't brag about the feat or recklessly spend the ransom, he's home free.

I would add a bomb to the list. It was a game changer, in the words of Ralph Himmelsbach.

I think a weapon is a matter of opinion for success....let's not forget 9/11 was done with box cutters. confidence and control are key factors along with some skills and huge balls.. jumping out of a plane in the dark is the obvious head start if done right.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5365 on: April 05, 2020, 10:40:49 AM »
Using a firearm causes several factors. you would need a hostage during the whole time constantly watching or you have to keep it ready to fire at anything that moves because everyone on board knows what's going on. McNally had this problem since he decided the whole plane would be involved. McCoy used a gun but had a hand grenade as a backup so he didn't have to brandish the weapon the entire time.

McNally was just a typical criminal but crazy enough to pull it off. McCoy appears to have been some what jealous of Cooper wanting to prove he could do it and get away. he had a gun but didn't need to show it 24/7 since they thought he had a live grenade with no pin. that's pure confidence and control..they all made mistakes that got them caught...what mistake has Cooper done that can expose him?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5366 on: April 05, 2020, 11:28:16 AM »
The bomb...Cooper had his hands in the briefcase a lot. why would that be if he had the wire on the outside making it appear he could detonate the bomb by contacting the wire leading out of the briefcase. was it a bluff or did he have another wire handy to complete the circuit or did he have a weapon as a backup? nobody would see it while allowing the stews to view the contents...

I have several handguns but decided to use a BB gun in this demonstration. most, if not all briefcases have have a folder pocket on the top portion of the briefcase. a handgun can be stored in the file pocket easily along with the dynamite and battery in the bottom portion..he was also seen holding the case with both hands while going to the bathroom. this was very important to his mission.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 11:36:31 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5367 on: April 05, 2020, 12:43:52 PM »
I think the bomb was almost certainly fake. There are several reason why, including:

1) A real bomb wasn't necessary.
2) A real bomb can accidentally detonate and really F things up.
3) He jumped with the "bomb."

Also--I've brought this up before--ironically, DBC strikes me as someone a little uncomfortable with violence. For example, he never said "no funny stuff or I'll blow everyone the F up." Rather, he stated, quite euphemistically, "no funny stuff or I'll do the job."

A real bomb makes no sense on a number of different levels. A fake bomb makes perfect sense.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5368 on: April 05, 2020, 01:24:38 PM »
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The bomb...Cooper had his hands in the briefcase a lot. why would that be if he had the wire on the outside making it appear he could detonate the bomb by contacting the wire leading out of the briefcase. was it a bluff or did he have another wire handy to complete the circuit or did he have a weapon as a backup? nobody would see it while allowing the stews to view the contents...

I have several handguns but decided to use a BB gun in this demonstration. most, if not all briefcases have have a folder pocket on the top portion of the briefcase. a handgun can be stored in the file pocket easily along with the dynamite and battery in the bottom portion..he was also seen holding the case with both hands while going to the bathroom. this was very important to his mission.

As we have previously discussed, I have a duplicate of the briefcase that you use in your demonstration.  Storing a handgun in the folder pocket?  No way unless it is a small 0.25 automatic or such.  Further, there is no mention of a folder pocket in any description of the brief case by the stews. 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5369 on: April 05, 2020, 01:46:31 PM »
Quote
A real bomb makes no sense on a number of different levels. A fake bomb makes perfect sense.

To you it does. criminals hardly make sense most of the time. dynamite is easily disarmed. if the bomb was fake then it's possible he had a backup..much like experience with parachutes as many claim he had gives the same conclusion with explosives. hints of knowledge are present. real or fake it was vital to the completion of the crime. if he was confronted and it was fake. he would of been in a lot of trouble. if it was "well thought out" as many claim then he would certainly have a backup. we are dealing with someone who doesn't think logically in some cases. committing crimes is not logical. it's only logical to the suspect.

you have to think like a criminal...lets say Cooper made the bomb just like I did. he can't go around asking people if it looks real. he starts thinking and wondering if they will buy it. a backup would be something to take into consideration while hoping they believe it's real. there is not to many reasons he would have his hand in the briefcase. he already threw up a screen with the exposed wire outside the case. Marshals were a concern to him. radio frequencies were mentioned. being rushed was obviously on his mind. if everything was logical we wouldn't have any unsolved crimes..