Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1823174 times)

Offline hom

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #525 on: December 16, 2014, 05:10:48 PM »
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I keep wondering how the leg straps went over the ends of the coat...

The coat, as coats are like to be, was flexible and foldable.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 05:11:35 PM by hom »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #526 on: December 16, 2014, 05:17:00 PM »
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I keep wondering how the leg straps went over the ends of the coat...

The coat, as coats are like to be, was flexible and foldable.


And where would he strap that?
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #527 on: December 16, 2014, 05:50:37 PM »
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I keep wondering how the leg straps went over the ends of the coat...

Just sayin'.

Basically, the leg straps would not be a problem.  The bottom of the rain coat probably had a "slit" in the rear of the coat, the entire bottom of the rain coat could be rolled up to the hip level to facilitate the fastening of the leg straps, and there are any number of other ways of doing it.  While the rain coat would get crumpled, the leg straps could easily be fastened.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #528 on: December 16, 2014, 05:53:14 PM »
I wear a harness for boom lifts all the time. they are similar to a chute harness. I can easily wear a large shirt, or jacket, and get it to work properly....
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 11:19:31 PM by shutter »
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #529 on: December 17, 2014, 12:57:53 AM »
Cooper sends Tina to the front. Isolates the crew. Why? He knows they know he's going to jump. He knows they know he has the bag of money. Tina sees Cooper with the parachute cord around his waist. So what doesn't Cooper want the crew to see? There's only one way out. What's Cooper hiding? It's a vulnerable time for him. This one thing can end his plan and he's so close. There's four in the crew against him and his only threat is that bomb. Without the bomb Cooper is a passenger. Cooper sends Tina ahead and instructs no one to come back to see him dismantling the bomb. He needs to to put the money into the briefcase to use to escape and to fit in the sack (Bruce: Pauli exclusion principle.) He also needs the briefcase to be in the sack because of the wind blast. He also puts something else in the sack. An item from the plane. For later. He secures the bag to his waist/torso, puts on the overcoat over that to keep that money secure. It's what Mitchell can't put his finger on about Cooper. It's his appearance being odd. With other things, the overcoat is too big. Big enough to cover a "knapsack of money." Cooper puts the chute on and is ready to go. That's when he notices the tie he took off when it was swinging in front of him while he was cutting the chute cord, decides he can't go through that again because he needs to jump. He crosses his arms in front of the money, one hand on the pull cord so he's not fumbling like the FBI thinks he does. He jumps, lifts his knees up into a fetal position to secure that $200,000 baby. It's all about the money!!! and pulls the cord. Later, $5800, a portion of the briefcase money is found at Tina's Bar.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #530 on: December 17, 2014, 01:41:15 AM »
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Cooper sends Tina to the front. Isolates the crew. Why? He knows they know he's going to jump. He knows they know he has the bag of money. Tina sees Cooper with the parachute cord around his waist. So what doesn't Cooper want the crew to see? There's only one way out. What's Cooper hiding? It's a vulnerable time for him. This one thing can end his plan and he's so close. There's four in the crew against him and his only threat is that bomb. Without the bomb Cooper is a passenger. Cooper sends Tina ahead and instructs no one to come back to see him dismantling the bomb. He needs to to put the money into the briefcase to use to escape and to fit in the sack (Bruce: Pauli exclusion principle.) He also needs the briefcase to be in the sack because of the wind blast. He also puts something else in the sack. An item from the plane. For later. He secures the bag to his waist/torso, puts on the overcoat over that to keep that money secure. It's what Mitchell can't put his finger on about Cooper. It's his appearance being odd. With other things, the overcoat is too big. Big enough to cover a "knapsack of money." Cooper puts the chute on and is ready to go. That's when he notices the tie he took off when it was swinging in front of him while he was cutting the chute cord, decides he can't go through that again because he needs to jump. He crosses his arms in front of the money, one hand on the pull cord so he's not fumbling like the FBI thinks he does. He jumps, lifts his knees up into a fetal position to secure that $200,000 baby. It's all about the money!!! and pulls the cord. Later, $5800, a portion of the briefcase money is found at Tina's Bar.

Are you writing a novelette too!  Lot's of BIG assumptions you are making - here's some factoids. BTW, what does the Pauli exclusion principle have to do with any of this? Are you saying that Cooper was a boson or a fermion!?  ;D

5:45 – 6:00   305: chutes on plane, chute and money inspection by Cooper.  Negotiations stairs down at take off, R advises not possible.  Cooper accedes to R’s demand for the time being.

6:21   305:   Girls are not off yet. Senior girl stationed on aft side of the cockpit in her seat remaining seated. 2nd girl in forward rear seat in C section told not to get up. 3rd girl (Mucklow) is intermediary and sitting with the individual.

6:21   305: Cooper restating his demand stair be down at take off.  They agree aft door will be open and remain open but stairs will be lowered only after takeoff. Cooper compliant for the moment..

6:38   305:  Have negotiated release of 2 girls leaving at any moment. 3rd girl Tina Mucklow) to stay with aircraft. He wants her to manipulate stairs for him after plane is  airborne. Have tried to tell him unable to operate stairs to lower position after takeoff. Trying to get him to let us lower stairs partly before takeoff.

6:44pm   305: Stews leaving aircraft … Flo & Alice leave aircraft, Hancock comes back for her purse and reports Cooper putting on chute with Tina watching.   

7:33   305 takes off.

7:40   305 advises leveling at 7000 ft . Cooper requesting again wants the stairs down (and plane slowed) and they are slowing to about 160. (Cooper not fully prepared to jump).

7:44   305 advises they will hold at 7000 ft – we have the back steps down now.  – (7:44 is the earliest time he can bail but  Cooper makes no attempt to bail. Pilots decide they must climb to lower fuel consumption and smooth out the flight configuration of the aircraft.)

7:51   305 advises they are climbing to 10,000 ft and are through 9,000 ft now.  Cooper prepping money in bag and cutting shroud lines etc , tells Tina to go forward and close the curtain.

7:54   FLT 305 reports: Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack tied around him and thinks he will jump.  (Cooper still waits, more to do including test of stairs consuming 10+ more minutes until he jumps..)

8:05-8:10 last comms. with Cooper.  Apparently makes at least two more calls to front according to crew members, one at  8:05pm and then two more after 8:05 asking the plane be leveled and slowed for more stable conditions … then he bails and not before (pressure spike, exact time uncertain).

He did not force the issue of the stairs to bail asap out of SEA! He accepted Rat’s issues  and waited and then he negotiated-demanded better conditions and waited further until those conditions were fulfilled. His goal seems to be getting out safely and any proximity to SEA  is secondary to bailing under safer conditions. If Cooper was some hot-shot skydiver who wanted to bail near Seattle why not force the issue of the stairs and bail out at the first opportunity rather than waiting ? 
 
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 02:00:04 AM by georger »
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #531 on: December 17, 2014, 01:56:57 AM »
What the Hell, these facts are really screwing up theory man. >:(

"7:51   305 advises they are climbing to 10,000 ft and are through 9,000 ft now.  Cooper prepping money in bag and cutting shroud lines etc , tells Tina to go forward and close the curtain.

7:54   FLT 305 reports: Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack tied around him and thinks he will jump.  (Cooper still waits, more to do including test of stairs consuming 10+ more minutes until he jumps..)"

So in three minutes or three minutes including reporting of Cooper cut the cords, wrapped the bag in two directions, (or is that Larry Carrs guesses?) made a handle and tied it to his waist?
Where is this discrepancy (or is this different times) between Tina saying he had cord around his waist vs. a "knapsack" tied around him.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 02:09:46 AM by Moriarty »
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #532 on: December 17, 2014, 02:02:27 AM »
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What the Hell, these facts are really screwing up theory man. >:(

It's covered in the Pauli Exclusion Principle you cited. No two electrons can't have the same quantum number where according to the Turing cycle N = True and N-1 = False. Think it over.  :-* Neither can be both true and false.  :-*
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The Pauli exclusion principle governs the behavior of all fermions (particles with "half-integer spin"), while bosons (particles with "integer spin") are not subject to it. Was Cooper a fermion or a boson?   ;)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 02:18:29 AM by georger »
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #533 on: December 17, 2014, 02:19:59 AM »
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What the Hell, these facts are really screwing up theory man. >:(

It's covered in the Pauli Exclusion Principle you cited. No two electrons can't have the same quantum number where according to the Turing cycle N = True and N-1 = False. Think it over.  :-* Neither can be both true and false.  :-*
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The Pauli exclusion principle governs the behavior of all fermions (particles with "half-integer spin"), while bosons (particles with "integer spin") are not subject to it. Was Cooper a fermion or a boson?   ;)
You just been waiting and waiting to use those kissing emotisantas, haven't you?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #534 on: December 17, 2014, 02:49:15 AM »
I feel I should know what the Pauli Exclusion Principle is...I may have to look it up.

Yes!  I have my copy of "Q is for Quantum" handy.  Yeah
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #535 on: December 17, 2014, 04:01:35 AM »
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What the Hell, these facts are really screwing up theory man. >:(

It's covered in the Pauli Exclusion Principle you cited. No two electrons can't have the same quantum number where according to the Turing cycle N = True and N-1 = False. Think it over.  :-* Neither can be both true and false.  :-*
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The Pauli exclusion principle governs the behavior of all fermions (particles with "half-integer spin"), while bosons (particles with "integer spin") are not subject to it. Was Cooper a fermion or a boson?   ;)
You just been waiting and waiting to use those kissing emotisantas, haven't you?

You brought the Pauli Exclusion principle up, I didn't.

What does it have to do with the Cooper case? How does it apply - - - to what?

I mean when people bring things like this up I figure there has to be some reason. ?    ;)   Is there?

 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #536 on: December 17, 2014, 04:51:25 PM »
Well, all I can figure is that the PEP has something to do with a maximum number of elections filling their so-called orbitals. Hence, it may mean that we can only have so many eye-witnesses sitting in Row 18.

Bill says he was in 18B, Himms says Cooper was in 18C, Gregory was in the "same row as the skyjacker" according to FBI documents.  Flo was in the aisle seat (18 D?) and then Tina took her seat, and was lighting cigarettes for Danny in 18E.

But the WSHM only had seats in Row 18 on the starboard side, but what's a few details like this, eh?  After all, their Cooper re-enactor had a full beard.

It's guys like us, Georger, who provide needed ballast when the winds of the vortex blow strong.
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #537 on: December 17, 2014, 05:15:00 PM »
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Well, all I can figure is that the PEP has something to do with a maximum number of elections filling their so-called orbitals. Hence, it may mean that we can only have so many eye-witnesses sitting in Row 18.

Bill says he was in 18B, Himms says Cooper was in 18C, Gregory was in the "same row as the skyjacker" according to FBI documents.  Flo was in the aisle seat (18 D?) and then Tina took her seat, and was lighting cigarettes for Danny in 18E.

But the WSHM only had seats in Row 18 on the starboard side, but what's a few details like this, eh?  After all, their Cooper re-enactor had a full beard.

It's guys like us, Georger, who provide needed ballast when the winds of the vortex blow strong.

Does WSHM have the actual NWA seating layout as it existed during the hijacking?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #538 on: December 17, 2014, 05:23:23 PM »
I think so.

I think I saw a seating chart posted somewhere in the exhibit. You could ask the WSHM, as they follow these discussions, at least for a time at the DZ, but they are difficult to connect with directly.  My numerous efforts to talk with the curators has been maddening. Emails and phone calls go unanswered.  However, the marketing people call back within the hour....
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #539 on: December 17, 2014, 05:27:58 PM »
WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?

We're all in black, now?  My eyeballs are screamin'.