Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1823065 times)

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #495 on: December 13, 2014, 10:25:18 PM »
Hey, I gotta old canvas sack of $20.00 bills over here I can't get rid of. Maybe he'll take cash. :P
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #496 on: December 13, 2014, 10:31:25 PM »
I have a huge collection of bank bags because of this case...
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #497 on: December 13, 2014, 10:40:54 PM »
Haha,

So I go to the nwa history site and click on this. Grab a scotch, settle back and Cooper up. - PS, is that baggage handler wearing a clip on tie? Enjoy.

 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #498 on: December 14, 2014, 12:28:51 AM »
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Haha,

So I go to the nwa history site and click on this. Grab a scotch, settle back and Cooper up. - PS, is that baggage handler wearing a clip on tie? Enjoy.



Thanks. Chuckle...  :) :) :)
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #499 on: December 14, 2014, 03:19:17 PM »
Because the video centers around this fashionable stewardess leaving from Seattle, it parallels Tina so well and that's why I posted it. It was funny and in the spirit of the case. Since I posted that, it has made me think about how easy it is to romanticize this case and Cooper. Tina, early twenties, idealistic, goes to work and in the space of half a day, Cooper threatens her and the crew's lives and I think it's important to remember this. The flight crew, Flo's testimony all point to how authentically fearful they were to the situation. Consider, it's 40 years + and Tina is still hunted, emailed, telephoned, etc. In a way she is a very good example of being a victim of this crime.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #500 on: December 14, 2014, 03:36:40 PM »
Do you think descriptions on height could be off due to the confines of a cabin?
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #501 on: December 14, 2014, 03:45:13 PM »
Also, some veterans help please.
I just watched the National Geo of the case and almost got dizzy from eye rolling at the first 8 minutes.

1 - Because of Mitchell's testimony I've been assuming Cooper was last to board (at least 2nd to last.) I based that on him saying the FBI called out his name and then Coopers and in the transcript it's suggest it may have been reverse order but now I think it makes sense the FBI would have gone by seat assignment, closest to Cooper. Can someone say factually that Cooper did indeed board last?
2 - Because of the above I've also assumed that the plane was boarded through the aft stairs. Cooper is last to get on, no one sees him, he gets experience of the stairs, he sits in the back in control. That's what Ive felt and for the time period, amount of pax, no indication on the boarding pass, I've assumed that he chose his seat. Was Cooper assigned 18c?
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #502 on: December 14, 2014, 03:51:40 PM »
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Do you think descriptions on height could be off due to the confines of a cabin?

No. Multiple witnesses state close to the same thing. Testimony taken at different times. Tina would know her own height and easily compare it. I'm not tall, five feet five inches, rarely aware of my height and how it compares in the world but I bet I could peg anyone's height just looking at them. If you're referring to Cooper I'd say the description is a given. Plus if you think about it flight attendants are constantly putting things up, they're using the storage (shelf or now bins) for balance, checking for things falling down etc. The cabin itself is a constant comparison of themselves within it.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 03:55:13 PM by Moriarty »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #503 on: December 14, 2014, 03:58:37 PM »
You can find Mitchell being interviewed by WSHS on the thread here. click on the Washington link at the bottom of the post, I think it's on the second page of there site...

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Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #504 on: December 14, 2014, 04:23:30 PM »
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Also, some veterans help please.
I just watched the National Geo of the case and almost got dizzy from eye rolling at the first 8 minutes.

1 - Because of Mitchell's testimony I've been assuming Cooper was last to board (at least 2nd to last.) I based that on him saying the FBI called out his name and then Coopers and in the transcript it's suggest it may have been reverse order but now I think it makes sense the FBI would have gone by seat assignment, closest to Cooper. Can someone say factually that Cooper did indeed board last?
2 - Because of the above I've also assumed that the plane was boarded through the aft stairs. Cooper is last to get on, no one sees him, he gets experience of the stairs, he sits in the back in control. That's what Ive felt and for the time period, amount of pax, no indication on the boarding pass, I've assumed that he chose his seat. Was Cooper assigned 18c?

Tosaw's book, page 2, states that Cooper was the last passenger to board and that he selected the last row of seats on the right side of the cabin on his own.  The plane had about 100 seats and about 36 or so passengers so NWA didn't bother with assigned seats on the flight since it was only a 25 minute flight.

Himmelsbach's book says about the same thing.

Also, the arriving and departing passengers all used the aft stairs.  This was before the "jetway" boom and the aircraft parked on the ramp and everyone had to walk a short distance from the terminal to the aircraft through a light rain.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 04:26:28 PM by Robert99 »
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #505 on: December 14, 2014, 04:38:34 PM »
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Also, some veterans help please.
I just watched the National Geo of the case and almost got dizzy from eye rolling at the first 8 minutes.

1 - Because of Mitchell's testimony I've been assuming Cooper was last to board (at least 2nd to last.) I based that on him saying the FBI called out his name and then Coopers and in the transcript it's suggest it may have been reverse order but now I think it makes sense the FBI would have gone by seat assignment, closest to Cooper. Can someone say factually that Cooper did indeed board last?
2 - Because of the above I've also assumed that the plane was boarded through the aft stairs. Cooper is last to get on, no one sees him, he gets experience of the stairs, he sits in the back in control. That's what Ive felt and for the time period, amount of pax, no indication on the boarding pass, I've assumed that he chose his seat. Was Cooper assigned 18c?

Tosaw's book, page 2, states that Cooper was the last passenger to board and that he selected the last row of seats on the right side of the cabin on his own.  The plane had about 100 seats and about 36 or so passengers so NWA didn't bother with assigned seats on the flight since it was only a 25 minute flight.

Himmelsbach's book says about the same thing.

Also, the arriving and departing passengers all used the aft stairs.  This was before the "jetway" boom and the aircraft parked on the ramp and everyone had to walk a short distance from the terminal to the aircraft through a light rain.

Thank you.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #506 on: December 14, 2014, 04:43:42 PM »
Here is a view from the stairs on my simulator  8)


 

Offline hom

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #507 on: December 14, 2014, 08:37:51 PM »
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Was Cooper assigned 18c?

Besides the fact he was not assigned a seat, he never sat in 18c, which was the aisle seat on the left side of the plane.  He sat initially across the aisle in 18D, then moved to the center seat on the right side (18E).  I think the program you mentioned is the one where Himmelsbach showed the Meltzer crew where Coop sat, and by doing so demonstrated just one of many examples of how clueless he is.  Apparently clueless that seating arrangements on different 727s of different airlines at different times over different routes varied.


BTW:  The last few rows were designated for smoking.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 08:40:05 PM by hom »
 

Offline hom

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #508 on: December 14, 2014, 08:57:05 PM »
As far as I know nobody has located a seating chart applicable to Flight 305.  But...

Over an unknown period of time, NWA used devices at ticket counters that did show the seating arrangements for their flights.  This was a good sized, foldup page with stickers in the positions of the seats.  When they were assigning seats, they would peel off the sticker for the seat they were assigning and would put the sticker on the passenger's ticket.

One of these devices that matched flight 305 was sold a while back on e-bay, so I was able to get a copy of the marginally legible pic.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #509 on: December 14, 2014, 08:59:58 PM »
Interesting, I've never seen those....

Here is another good one on Ebay

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« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 09:04:50 PM by shutter »