Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

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Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1822913 times)

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #450 on: December 10, 2014, 06:23:29 PM »
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As I always mention. the passengers didn't have a reason to remember him. Mitchell was the closets so he had a little more vivid memory (at the time) the others didn't, or couldn't of had a lot of time to look at him. Mitchell sat next to him. the rest of the passengers were in front of Cooper.

Does anyone remember the people in line while you checked out at a store today, or yesterday?

Your last point is valid. He stood in front of the ticket agent, next to the person taking his ticket, next to the people boarding, next to the stews (all of them), next to Mitchell in addition to sitting next to him, ...

The physical description is not in doubt. The FBI said there was close agreement between the witnesses.

The only thing in doubt is the cranks trying to jury-rig and question the description, to fit their own clients into their fictional claims and social media program! And there is nothing new about that intentional fictional fact mongering.

 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #451 on: December 10, 2014, 07:05:48 PM »
I kind of follow the same as Carr. I don't know at the moment, I'll have to check, but he claims they focused on people who had contact with Cooper. the main ones being the stews. I'm doubting some of the passengers for reason of the ability to recall.

The passengers fall into the same category as someone who witnessed a crime lasting seconds. the descriptions are often wrong, not always, but the question of recalling is suspect in my opinion. how many passengers placed Cooper under 40? if several did it's a reason they lowered it to mid 40's that seemingly changed from what the notes read during the crime.

50 years old
50-60 years old.

The ticket agent didn't have a reason to recall him either. he also claims the sketch doesn't fit. Flo in my opinion was probably the most traumatized by this event. wasn't it her who always looked under her car for a bomb? and like the ticket agent she also doesn't feel the sketch matches? she took the description of basically a full head of hair (parted on the left) and thinned it out combing it straight back? the only door this opened was LD Cooper? (same hair)

Am I that far off?
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Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #452 on: December 10, 2014, 07:51:25 PM »
SHUTTER: "The passengers fall into the same category as someone who witnessed a crime lasting seconds".

I think you're even being generous here. Someone who witnesses a crime lasting only a few seconds, still has a few seconds in which they realize they are witnessing a crime. But, the Norjack passengers didn't know about the hijacking until they had left the plane. Thus, they had zero reason to make any mental notes about Cooper while on the plane with him.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 07:56:52 PM by Parrotheadvol »
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Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #453 on: December 10, 2014, 07:55:57 PM »
I made the following post earlier today at DZ. I'm reposting it here because I think it fits the topic currently being discussed:


Re: [ParrotheadVol] Phony...AND Baloney [In reply to]   Quote | Reply | Report Spam
I just finished watching a documentary on Authur Leigh Allen, who was the primary suspect in the Zodiac Killer case. Although the show was about a Zodiac suspect, there was a quote at the end that certainly applies to the DB Cooper case and the "suspects" in that case including, but certainly not limited to, one Kenneth Christiansen. The quote comes from Dr. Kim Rossmo, who is Research Professor, Department of Criminal Justice at Texas State University.

Dr. Rossmo says the following:

"It's very important, and I think that this is something that has been forgotten about in the Zodiac case, It's very important to let the evidence drive the suspects, not let the suspects drive the evidence. What I mean by that is we evaluate our suspects by our known reliable physical evidence. We don't look at a good suspect that we think we have a personal interest in or a particular theory that we favor and then start to re-interpret the physical evidence. That's not how you do a case, that's gotten a lot of people into trouble in the whole Jack The Ripper case, one of the most famous unsolved serial murder investigations and we tend to see now books with various titles full about how they've solved the case, etc. But the actual fact is they tend to be more text books of how not to do a criminal investigation. It's important for any analyst or investigator, profiler or detective or anyone who is seeking to determine the truth, and let's throw in judges and scientists here too, is to come as unbiased as possible, look through all the facts and the data, and make the best determination at the end of the day. But if we've made our determination before hand, the psychological research is very clear, try as we might, we become locked into circular patterns of thinking and we keep returning to what we want to think rather than what the evidence suggests that we should think.

So, if we're going to evaluate someone like Author Leigh Allen, we have to consider all of the ways he doesn't match the profile of the Zodiac".

I also found another quote recently (again from the Zodiac case) that I think applies. This was a second hand quote attributed to a Lt Bruton of SFPD talking about Zidiac suspects and circumstantial evidence in October 1999:

"You could open a page of the telephone book at random, throw a dart, investigate the person it lands on, and build up a good case against him".
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #454 on: December 10, 2014, 08:18:22 PM »
I seen it earlier, excellent post! I believe this could go into the 101  thread.

It seems to go against what some "over there" tend to preach to others with volumes of knowledge with investigation skills  ;D 
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Offline MarkBennett

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #455 on: December 10, 2014, 09:32:32 PM »
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I made the following post earlier today at DZ. I'm reposting it here because I think it fits the topic currently being discussed:


Re: [ParrotheadVol] Phony...AND Baloney [In reply to]   Quote | Reply | Report Spam
I just finished watching a documentary on Authur Leigh Allen, who was the primary suspect in the Zodiac Killer case. Although the show was about a Zodiac suspect, there was a quote at the end that certainly applies to the DB Cooper case and the "suspects" in that case including, but certainly not limited to, one Kenneth Christiansen. The quote comes from Dr. Kim Rossmo, who is Research Professor, Department of Criminal Justice at Texas State University.

Dr. Rossmo says the following:

"It's very important, and I think that this is something that has been forgotten about in the Zodiac case, It's very important to let the evidence drive the suspects, not let the suspects drive the evidence. What I mean by that is we evaluate our suspects by our known reliable physical evidence. We don't look at a good suspect that we think we have a personal interest in or a particular theory that we favor and then start to re-interpret the physical evidence. That's not how you do a case, that's gotten a lot of people into trouble in the whole Jack The Ripper case, one of the most famous unsolved serial murder investigations and we tend to see now books with various titles full about how they've solved the case, etc. But the actual fact is they tend to be more text books of how not to do a criminal investigation. It's important for any analyst or investigator, profiler or detective or anyone who is seeking to determine the truth, and let's throw in judges and scientists here too, is to come as unbiased as possible, look through all the facts and the data, and make the best determination at the end of the day. But if we've made our determination before hand, the psychological research is very clear, try as we might, we become locked into circular patterns of thinking and we keep returning to what we want to think rather than what the evidence suggests that we should think.

So, if we're going to evaluate someone like Author Leigh Allen, we have to consider all of the ways he doesn't match the profile of the Zodiac".

I also found another quote recently (again from the Zodiac case) that I think applies. This was a second hand quote attributed to a Lt Bruton of SFPD talking about Zidiac suspects and circumstantial evidence in October 1999:

"You could open a page of the telephone book at random, throw a dart, investigate the person it lands on, and build up a good case against him".

That's interesting....I read Vincent Bugliosi's book (all 1600 pages of it) on the assassination of John F. Kennedy.  He dedicates a whole chapter to the movie JFK and New Orleans district attorney Jim Garrison.  He describes Garrison of doing exactly what you describe -- identify a suspect and try to build a case against him.  Another theory he used was "proximity" -- people who lived or worked in the same general area as the suspect were likely involved as well.

 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #456 on: December 10, 2014, 10:00:36 PM »
Building a story is more like it, rather than building a case.

We have a 12 year old girl briefly seeing something that she can recall 40+ years later? who will win the super memory game, Marla, Jo, or 12 year old girl remembers bomb?

Possible coin collection prior to the crime, poor old Kenny?

Clocks are only used on bombs when setting off the charge at a certain time. Cooper couldn't use that option.

Now, we have the Geestmans snooping around Dropzone? they need to be sniffing around the FBI telling them, and not reading about what others are claiming? makes no sense.

This is starting to sound like advertisement for the DB Cooper thread. nobody is there anymore.
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Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #457 on: December 10, 2014, 10:25:10 PM »
"Possible coin collection prior to the crime, poor old Kenny?"

Exactly. I thought the crime financed the coin collection. Now it seems the coin collection may have facilitated the crime. Go figure.
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georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #458 on: December 10, 2014, 11:18:53 PM »
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Building a story is more like it, rather than building a case.

We have a 12 year old girl briefly seeing something that she can recall 40+ years later? who will win the super memory game, Marla, Jo, or 12 year old girl remembers bomb?

Possible coin collection prior to the crime, poor old Kenny?

Clocks are only used on bombs when setting off the charge at a certain time. Cooper couldn't use that option.

Now, we have the Geestmans snooping around Dropzone? they need to be sniffing around the FBI telling them, and not reading about what others are claiming? makes no sense.

This is starting to sound like advertisement for the DB Cooper thread. nobody is there anymore.

No clock was seen. Cooper said: "all I have to do is touch these wires together (he pointed to the wires) and .........."

The expletive and word he used after "and" proves he was .........   Elmer Fudd from Beacon Utah.

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #459 on: December 10, 2014, 11:29:39 PM »
Quote
No clock was seen.

No reason to have one. it would server no purpose what so ever.....
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 11:30:12 PM by shutter »
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Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #460 on: December 11, 2014, 03:03:32 AM »
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No clock was seen. Cooper said: "all I have to do is touch these wires together (he pointed to the wires) and .........."

The expletive and word he used after "and" proves he was .........   Elmer Fudd from Beacon Utah.

Could someone point me to where Cooper had said this? Flo said "all I have to do is attach this wire to this gadget here and we all be dead."
Didn't Tina also state singular wire?

Anyone who says Cooper had a timer on his bomb is a nut. "I'll blow this plane and everybody up, in .... let's seeee ... 6 hours and 27 minutes!" As if.
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georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #461 on: December 11, 2014, 03:28:32 AM »
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No clock was seen. Cooper said: "all I have to do is touch these wires together (he pointed to the wires) and .........."

The expletive and word he used after "and" proves he was .........   Elmer Fudd from Beacon Utah.

Could someone point me to where Cooper had said this? Flo said "all I have to do is attach this wire to this gadget here and we all be dead."
Didn't Tina also state singular wire?

Anyone who says Cooper had a timer on his bomb is a nut. "I'll blow this plane and everybody up, in .... let's seeee ... 6 hours and 27 minutes!" As if.

The source of my two wires is so far back in time I couldn't prove it if I wanted to - maybe it was a single wire .... to this gadget? ....

"A quick check with Wikipedia reveals that the most common standard size for dynamite is a stick 1ΒΌ" in diameter and 8" long."

Road flares vary in size but a common diameter is Diameter 1 In., Length 14 In ???

A dime is 17.91 mm (0.705 in) dia. A nickel is 21.21 millimeters (0.835 in). A quarter is 0.955 inches (24.26 mm).

The lead plug nickles Blevins produces are exactly 1.25 inches dia. Kenny was obviously using Blevins plug nickels!

This isnt posting correctly ... will give up on today.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 03:34:22 AM by georger »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #462 on: December 11, 2014, 07:06:47 AM »
Multiple quotes together seems to be the reason it continues to stay in the quote box....

I don't think the question is what diameter dynamite is vs road flares. If it was presented in a way to appear as a bomb, that's how people will see it. I'll assume the two rows probably had black tape holding them together, and depending on how he placed it in the case could of limited the writing on the flares by rotating them skewing the writing. a simple illusion.

People use fake guns to commit crimes all the time. cops often shoot people who have fake guns. the average person is not going to analyze what they seen in brief periods. Flo read the note that said he had a bomb. he opened the case, and she seen something that appeared to be a bomb. probably the first time she ever seen anything like that. so it should be pretty east to fool her IMO.

Here is a "prop bomb" made from 6 road flares. do you think they would notice any writing on it?

He explains how it was made.

I ended up using a bunch of wires and old computer parts taped and glued onto the sticks of dynamite to best replicate a stereotypical movie time bomb. To top it off I found a great mini alarm clock at Wal-mart that ended up working perfectly as the final piece. I remember laughing as I was constructing this fake bomb on my coffee table that the ATF or FBI were going to break down my door any second. When I was finished with this time bomb it looked kind of real, real enough I guess for a cartoon looking bomb.

The bomb shouldn't have taken much space. how was it presented, or what else was in the case that nobody has disclosed?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 07:22:56 AM by shutter »
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Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #463 on: December 11, 2014, 01:11:20 PM »
Moriarty,

The only place that I can recall seeing the "we all be dead" quote was in a video interview that Flo did. I'm pretty sure that it was the episode of "In Search Of".
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Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #464 on: December 11, 2014, 01:18:44 PM »
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No clock was seen. Cooper said: "all I have to do is touch these wires together (he pointed to the wires) and .........."

The expletive and word he used after "and" proves he was .........   Elmer Fudd from Beacon Utah.

Could someone point me to where Cooper had said this? Flo said "all I have to do is attach this wire to this gadget here and we all be dead."
Didn't Tina also state singular wire?

Anyone who says Cooper had a timer on his bomb is a nut. "I'll blow this plane and everybody up, in .... let's seeee ... 6 hours and 27 minutes!" As if.

The source of my two wires is so far back in time I couldn't prove it if I wanted to - maybe it was a single wire .... to this gadget? ....

Tosaw's book is one source for the two wire statement by Tina.  Supposedly, there were two wires with bare ends and Cooper would threaten to touch them and blow everything up when he needed to emphasize some of his statements.
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