Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case (Read 1873859 times)

snowmman · « **Reply #4320 on:** November 24, 2018, 08:39:04 PM »

The first and third memos seem consistent in the 15 bundle start/stop.

Flyjack says the 2nd memo has conflicting information:
"The initial start/stop numbers were from left packets applied to the first pre-Norjak micro. The FBI requested the post-Norjak micro from the second ransom stash which included the $30k Cooper didn't get...they designated a range with bill numbers inconsistent with the first micro start/stop numbers."

Here are the serial numbers referenced in the 2nd memo *new microfilm 11_27_71"

The $20 bills in question in lot 5 begin with the serial number L34346374A and end with serial number E50344506A,

The $20 bills in question in lot 6 begin with the serial number L18031099B and end with the serial number L09729057B on the microfilm.

I suppose Flyjack is saying the two end serials in the above 2 sentences should be in the group of stop serials above (one of 15)

and the two start serials in the above 2 sentences should be in the group of start serials above (one of 15)

Flyjack, is that right? I'm trying to understand what you think isn't consistent.

snowmman · « **Reply #4321 on:** November 24, 2018, 08:44:10 PM »

Flyjack seems to be correct that these start/end serials, are not in the list of 15 start/end serials.

Maybe the group of bills that are covered by this range (the 2nd microfilm memo) covers more than what should be excluded...but it's broad enough to include the 15 bundles that should be excluded)

begin with L34346374A and end with serial number E50344506A,
begin with L18031099B and end with the serial number L09729057B

In any case, the memo with the 2nd microfilm, I think is redundant? it's not needed to understand the 15 bundles to be excluded from the first microfilm. The last memo seems to understand that.

Unsurelock · « **Reply #4322 on:** November 24, 2018, 08:45:36 PM »

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From that last FBI memo...interesting that the 717171684* is unknown as to reason.

They seemed to be trying to get prints from the various copies of the letter...unclear if they were ultimately successful or not.

The initials "CWH" and the date "12/14/71" on the lower right corners on the back of both the envelop and letter were placed there by WFO agent.

The significance of the number "717171684*", appearing next to the copy count in the lower left corner on the face of the letter, remains unknown"

Took a shot at deciphering the code and found it matches a military co-ord system, point in the Willamette Valley W of I5 and north of Eugene...

I have to run, tennis court booked will post later. It is a long shot though. Looks like a tree farm.

Just outside of Adair Village?

FLYJACK · « **Reply #4323 on:** November 24, 2018, 09:16:00 PM »

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The first memo specifies the 15 unused start/stop bundles as follows:

E 50344994A through E 50344506A
B 07656937B through L 05419634A
E 22084591A through L 66634223B
L 52807604A through E 01043096
L 19538120A through L 72360402B
G 98535159A through L 14348843A
L 34429987A through L 19556442A
L 33474929A through L 09819218A
L 38139808A through L 00934693
L 34346374A through I 33449321A
L 41197159A through E 12561826B
L 33639577A through L 20458S72A
J 02051511 through I 00466866
L 33410247A through L 32378753A
C 05722105A through G 16813690A

The third memo specifies the same start/stop serials, but in a different order:
L41197159A thru E12561828B
L33639577A thru L20458572A
J02051511 thru 100466866
L33410247A thru L32378753A
C05722105A thru G16813690A
G98535159A thru L14348853A
L34429987A thru L19556442A
L33474929A thru L09819218A
L38139808A thru X00S3U693
L34346374A thru L3344932IA
E50344994A thru E50344506A
B076S6937B thru L054X9634A
E22084591A thru L66634223B
L52807604A thru L0X043096
L19538120A thru L72860402B

I contend if you compare these start/stop serials, the start/stop pair are random with respect to the full set of 30 serials shown here, making it likely that each bundle had a random group of serial numbers

Conversely, I don't think you can show that the pairs of serial numbers, exhibit any obvious order, when chosen from the set of 30 serial numbers listed.

There is an error when comparing those lists.. may be a typo. Not the conflict I was referring to.

1st list L 14348843A
2nd list L14348853A

FLYJACK · « **Reply #4324 on:** November 24, 2018, 09:35:14 PM »

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Flyjack seems to be correct that these start/end serials, are not in the list of 15 start/end serials.

Maybe the group of bills that are covered by this range (the 2nd microfilm memo) covers more than what should be excluded...but it's broad enough to include the 15 bundles that should be excluded)

begin with L34346374A and end with serial number E50344506A,
begin with L18031099B and end with the serial number L09729057B

In any case, the memo with the 2nd microfilm, I think is redundant? it's not needed to understand the 15 bundles to be excluded from the first microfilm. The last memo seems to understand that.

The bill range doesn't match the previous start/stop bills for packets (x100)...

The other relevant memo says..

"Because the laboratory was having difficulty with eliminating the serial numbers, they requested we obtain the complete list of serial numbers which were deleted from the original listing of the $230,000."

Why were they having difficulty? and seems like they mixed up the 1500 bills not given to Cooper on the original micro into that second ransom fund.

.

FLYJACK · « **Reply #4325 on:** November 24, 2018, 09:43:47 PM »

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From that last FBI memo...interesting that the 717171684* is unknown as to reason.

They seemed to be trying to get prints from the various copies of the letter...unclear if they were ultimately successful or not.

The initials "CWH" and the date "12/14/71" on the lower right corners on the back of both the envelop and letter were placed there by WFO agent.

The significance of the number "717171684*", appearing next to the copy count in the lower left corner on the face of the letter, remains unknown"

Took a shot at deciphering the code and found it matches a military co-ord system, point in the Willamette Valley W of I5 and north of Eugene...

I have to run, tennis court booked will post later. It is a long shot though. Looks like a tree farm.

Just outside of Adair Village?

20-25 miles South

snowmman · « **Reply #4326 on:** November 24, 2018, 11:34:36 PM »

I expanded testyz's work in providing a list of serial numbers that were found by Ingram.

PCGS said they found/provided the FBI 35 additional serial numbers, not recorded on FBI notes in 1980 after the find. All PCGS serials match against the original 1971 list.

Don't know how many FBI recorded.

30 PCGS serials I've found from auctions

If you copy these serials into google (leave out the year info) you'll find google images of them. Good for seeing the wide variety of bills. You can click the ha.com images to get high resolution.

If you find one at auction, you can scroll around and look for other serials in the same auction (if anyone cares to try to expand the list)

Some were on testxyz's list. I've noted them with 'testxyz'

B09090997B 1963A
C13871652A 1963A testxyz
G00061029B 1969
J09534759A 1969
I02591811A 1969 testxyz
I06638737A 1969
L01781113A 1969
L01842041A 1969 testxyz
L03160387B 1963A
L03166965B 1963A
L06832736A 1969 testxyz
L09781412A 1969
L20301456A 1969 testxyz
L30008289A 1969
L32700814A 1969 testxyz
L34047759A 1969
L34212082A 1969 testxyz
L34589413A 1969 testxyz
L35399523B 1963A
L38138140A 1960 testxyz
L382xxxxxxx
L47621840A 1969
L49839325B 1963A
L51079019B 1963A
L51236377B 1963A testxyz
L55372948B 1963A
L69210458B 1963A
L72738527B 1963A
L72525838B 1963A testxyz
L73000558B 1963A

festxyz, excluding pcgs bills

There are 16 serials that testxyz must have seen on photos.
I believe they are all validated against an FBI list.

Couldn't find them online as PCGS

E41933578A 1969
F07553334A 1969
H27412928A 1963A
J12657135A 1969
L01701113A 1969
L028821118 1963A
L04461895* 1963A
L20210452A 1969
L29575638A 1969
L344 (partial)
L34628654A 1969
L36246726A 1969
L43214579A 1969
L55376548B 1963A Himmelsbach reading bill
L55479078B 1963A so-called rubber band bill
L594394????? not on FBI list?

snowmman · « **Reply #4327 on:** November 24, 2018, 11:42:04 PM »

I checked the jpg of the original memos again
the first memo has
L 14348843A

the third memo has
L14348853A

So yes they disagree. I don't know which is correct or how the FBI correctly excluded bundles. Maybe they didn't use the end number, since it doesn't matter.

If you know there are 100 bills per bundle, and you have a list that matches their order, you only need the start serial number.

The end serial number must have been an extra check? If the bills weren't in the same order as the list, also having the end wouldn't help you.

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The first memo specifies the 15 unused start/stop bundles as follows:

E 50344994A through E 50344506A
B 07656937B through L 05419634A
E 22084591A through L 66634223B
L 52807604A through E 01043096
L 19538120A through L 72360402B
G 98535159A through L 14348843A
L 34429987A through L 19556442A
L 33474929A through L 09819218A
L 38139808A through L 00934693
L 34346374A through I 33449321A
L 41197159A through E 12561826B
L 33639577A through L 20458S72A
J 02051511 through I 00466866
L 33410247A through L 32378753A
C 05722105A through G 16813690A

The third memo specifies the same start/stop serials, but in a different order:
L41197159A thru E12561828B
L33639577A thru L20458572A
J02051511 thru 100466866
L33410247A thru L32378753A
C05722105A thru G16813690A
G98535159A thru L14348853A
L34429987A thru L19556442A
L33474929A thru L09819218A
L38139808A thru X00S3U693
L34346374A thru L3344932IA
E50344994A thru E50344506A
B076S6937B thru L054X9634A
E22084591A thru L66634223B
L52807604A thru L0X043096
L19538120A thru L72860402B

I contend if you compare these start/stop serials, the start/stop pair are random with respect to the full set of 30 serials shown here, making it likely that each bundle had a random group of serial numbers

Conversely, I don't think you can show that the pairs of serial numbers, exhibit any obvious order, when chosen from the set of 30 serial numbers listed.

There is an error when comparing those lists.. may be a typo. Not the conflict I was referring to.

1st list L 14348843A
2nd list L14348853A

snowmman · « **Reply #4328 on:** November 24, 2018, 11:45:04 PM »

the extra rolls of microfilm in this memo (sorry I didn't include this memo) apparently are the extra microfilm described in the "new microfilm" memo I included above..right?

Yes it's odd they were having trouble and needed more information

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Flyjack seems to be correct that these start/end serials, are not in the list of 15 start/end serials.

Maybe the group of bills that are covered by this range (the 2nd microfilm memo) covers more than what should be excluded...but it's broad enough to include the 15 bundles that should be excluded)

begin with L34346374A and end with serial number E50344506A,
begin with L18031099B and end with the serial number L09729057B

In any case, the memo with the 2nd microfilm, I think is redundant? it's not needed to understand the 15 bundles to be excluded from the first microfilm. The last memo seems to understand that.

The bill range doesn't match the previous start/stop bills for packets (x100)...

The other relevant memo says..

"Because the laboratory was having difficulty with eliminating the serial numbers, they requested we obtain the complete list of serial numbers which were deleted from the original listing of the $230,000."

Why were they having difficulty? and seems like they mixed up the 1500 bills not given to Cooper on the original micro into that second ransom fund.

.

snowmman · « **Reply #4329 on:** November 25, 2018, 12:15:09 AM »

I found 2 more, when I found a list of all 46 sold items here
Does 377 bill have a serial? which is it?

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added to my prior post:

I expanded testyz's work in providing a list of serial numbers that were found by Ingram.

PCGS said they foun/provided the FBI 35 additional serial numbers, not recorded on FBI notes in 1980 after the find. All PCGS serials match against the original 1971 list.

Don't know how many FBI recorded.

32 PCGS serials I've found from auctions

If you copy these into google (not the year info) you'll find google images of them

Some were on testxyz's list. I've noted them with 'testxyz'

B09090997B 1963A
C13871652A 1963A testxyz
G00061029B 1969
J09534759A 1969
I02591811A 1969 testxyz
I06638737A 1969
L01781113A 1969
L01842041A 1969 testxyz
L02882111B 1963A testxyz
L03160387B 1963A
L03166965B 1963A
L06832736A 1969 testxyz
L09781412A 1969
L20301456A 1969 testxyz
L30008289A 1969
L32700814A 1969 testxyz
L34047759A 1969
L34212082A 1969 testxyz
L34589413A 1969 testxyz
L35399523B 1963A
L38138140A 1960 testxyz
L382xxxxxxx
L47621840A 1969
L49839325B 1963A
L51079019B 1963A
L51236377B 1963A testxyz
L55372948B 1963A
L57110577A 1969
L69210458B 1963A
L72525838B 1963A testxyz
L72738527B 1963A
L73000558B 1963A

festxyz, excluding pcgs bills

There are 15 serials that he must have seen on photos.

Couldn't find them online as PCGS

E41933578A 1969
F07553334A 1969
H27412928A 1963A
J12657135A 1969
L01701113A 1969
L04461895* 1963A
L20210452A 1969
L29575638A 1969
L344 (partial)
L34628654A 1969
L36246726A 1969
L43214579A 1969
L55376548B 1963A Himmelsbach reading bill
L55479078B 1963A so-called rubber band bill
L594394?

? not on FBI list?

georger · « **Reply #4330 on:** November 25, 2018, 02:20:35 AM »

cant reply with pasted text from prior posts ...
comes back DATABASE ERROR.

georger · « **Reply #4331 on:** November 25, 2018, 02:27:16 AM »

The prior posts I wanted to paste to this forum cannot be pasted due to the new - DATABASE ERROR.

Shutter · « **Reply #4332 on:** November 25, 2018, 02:35:53 AM »

I'm going to try and resolve the problem tomorrow. I'm concerned about damage to the database they mention with the move I have to make..

georger · « **Reply #4333 on:** November 25, 2018, 02:43:17 AM »

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I'm going to try and resolve the problem tomorrow. I'm concerned about damage to the database they mention with the move I have to make..

This problem is brand new, never happened before under the old system. ?

How do Snow and Flyjack post posts their long lists when I cant even copy and paste a prior post text?

snowmman · « **Reply #4334 on:** November 25, 2018, 05:41:31 AM »

georger:
I always strip non-ascii characters using
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pretty much whenever I copy/paste..even if I think everything's ascii
Once in a while everything is already ascii and I can copy/paste without it.

But pretty much every copy/paste I use it.

There always seems to be some non-visible character that needs cleaning out or something.

I think non-ascii chars just don't work.

Yes it's a pain.

Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case (Read 1873859 times)

snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Unsurelock

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

FLYJACK

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

FLYJACK

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

FLYJACK

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Shutter

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case