Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1822502 times)

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #405 on: December 07, 2014, 09:41:39 PM »
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Fingerprints too, Wilson should have been processed when he was first arrested. The FBI collected tons of fingerprints on that plane. Wilson's fingerprints might still be evidence if for some reason he wasn't processed.

According to the US Marshal's in Central Wisconsin, Melvin's prints were never uploaded to the IAFIS database. They were on fingerprint cards. NamUs now has them as part of their database. However DNA and Fingerprints on file at NamUs are not routinely checked with FBI criminal cases without the FBI doing the checking.

It's good to clear that up... Wilson was also Canadian, right? Cooper used the phrase "Negotiable American Currency" which sounds nothing like an American. Did Wilson use language in an odd [Canadian or otherwise] way?

He was not from Canada. He was born and raised in Oakland, CA. It was a lie he told his second wife. As far as I recall...he talked like everybody else in Minnesota....but I was young at the time.

Would a counterfeiter use that term?  Negotiable American Currency. Maybe...
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #406 on: December 07, 2014, 09:55:29 PM »
Carr stated this in 2007:

One of the factors in the case that has not been resolved is the missing person aspect. It would stand to reason if DB Cooper went missing, someone would miss him. That does not seem to be the case here. It seems as if no one has missed him or did not realize their missing loved one was in fact DB Cooper. That means if DB died the night he jumped he most likely was a loner with few ties to anyone or anywhere.
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #407 on: December 07, 2014, 10:18:42 PM »
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Let me throw something out there for fun. Feel free to chime in with anything.
Let's say all the evidence found on Cooper's tie didn't point to what he did for a living and let's include that annoying piece of pure titanium, let's say it all had to do with something Cooper built ... what would that thing be?

Golf Clubs
Watches and jewelry
The pieces of metal used on horn instruments; such as, trumpets, cornets, tubas, etc.
Airplanes, jet engines, missiles.
Dental implants and prosthetics


 


You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #408 on: December 07, 2014, 10:35:24 PM »
Quote
I hope the Wilson survivors get closure, and connecting him to the hijacking would help. However, the evidence is still lacking.

I'm sure you guys realize Vicki is a surviving member? "Vicki Wilson"....
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #409 on: December 07, 2014, 11:37:46 PM »
I caught on, eventually.  8)
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #410 on: December 08, 2014, 03:04:25 AM »


Would a counterfeiter use that term?  Negotiable American Currency. Maybe...
[/quote]

Where does it say that Cooper asked for Negotiable  American Currency? I see this quoted all the time but I can only find "negotiable currency" in the crew notes.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #411 on: December 08, 2014, 03:55:16 AM »
That's my understanding, too, M.  "American" got added along the way by someone.
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #412 on: December 08, 2014, 03:56:27 AM »
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I'm sure you've all seen this but it's cool for me to see Flo and Scott. Don't know about how the "facts(?)" are presented here but the only thing that matters is Flo/Scott's testimony as to how antsy things were. Very different from the in control easy-going nature associated with Cooper.
Also to note, Flo's description of the bomb is a very different from the notes/305 transmissions.

(thx andrade1812)
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #413 on: December 08, 2014, 04:05:22 AM »
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Would a counterfeiter use that term?  Negotiable American Currency. Maybe...

Where does it say that Cooper asked for Negotiable  American Currency? I see this quoted all the time but I can only find "negotiable currency" in the crew notes.
[/quote]

The phrase..from the flight crew's handwritten notes written during the hijacking....was "negotiable currency".

The transcript (Scott on 305 talking) has the phrase "Wants money in negotiable American currency. Denomination not important".

The pilot notes say: "negotiable currency".

Obviously Scott embellished and added "American". Carol Abrakadabrah and Bruce Smith picked up American and ran with it ... classic case of myth building with something that Cooper himself never said.


 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #414 on: December 08, 2014, 06:43:19 AM »
"Negotiable Currency" also is not a common American phrase. I've never heard anyone other than regular international travelers throw "negotiable" in front of currency.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #415 on: December 08, 2014, 08:03:56 AM »
It's hard to figure out the term he implied about the money. was Cooper a international traveler? would a loner do such a thing? as usual it raises lots of questions why he said that..... :-\
 

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #416 on: December 08, 2014, 08:47:02 AM »
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Cooper was likely a bit of a loner too.

If he died, no one missed him. The two missing persons (Lespy and Melwin) are not good Cooper candidates since neither one led the life that Kaye's tie analysis suggests Cooper lived, and their families filed missing person reports. The original investigators looked into missing persons, and none fit (as far as they were concerned)

If Cooper lived, well, he jumped into unknown territory the day before Thanksgiving. He clearly wasn't concerned about being missed by anyone on Thanksgiving day. In either case, Cooper was a good candidate to not be noticed by others.
The thing that Lepsy and Wilson share is both weren't considered "missing persons" until 2011.  At the time of the skyjacking both were considered voluntary flights and suspects in crimes in areas distant to Washington State.  Both loosely fit the skyjacker's description and neither have been seen or heard from since the skyjacking event.  IF Cooper was a no pull and ended up in the Columbia, then he would have been someone like Lepsy or Wilson, an outlier, who until recently, has been hidden in obscurity. 

As for the tie, if a guy is willing to take someone else's money, he would probably take someone else's clothes also.  I think Cooper may have done a dry-run or two, and could have easily stolen someone else's suitcase from an airport, automobile or hotel.

I just had a thought on the "russet" suit description.  Have you ever seen an old black suit (or a black concert T-shirt for that matter) that is sun  faded?  The "black" lightens up, sometimes with a reddish hue.  Maybe Cooper's suit was sun faded or over washed or lightly bleached?
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #417 on: December 08, 2014, 02:36:41 PM »
Quote
As for the tie, if a guy is willing to take someone else's money, he would probably take someone else's clothes also.  I think Cooper may have done a dry-run or two, and could have easily stolen someone else's suitcase from an airport, automobile or hotel.

When you're six feet tall, it's really hard finding the right size clothing to steal.

I'm trying to think of anytime I heard of a criminal stealing someone's clothes in order to perform a robbery... and I'm coming up blank. This has to be the least likely explanation for the evidence on Cooper's tie.
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #418 on: December 08, 2014, 03:03:34 PM »
Here's how I would judge any Cooper suspect, in the absence of physical evidence...
There needs to be a plausible explanation for Cooper's behavior and knowledge:

-Knowledge of airline terms like "airstairs"
-Knowledge of general aviation mechanics like pressurization, flaps and landing gear
-Knowledge of area around SeaTac, including driving distance times to/from McChord
-Appearance reminiscent of eyewitness descriptions
-Smart[ish]ness
-Explanation for evidence on the tie
-"Negotiable currency" comment
-Smoked, and smoked Raleigh cigarettes (casually)
-Knowledge of parachutes, packing cards, and being able to quickly and easily put on a parachute harness, and willingness to jump out of a perfectly good airplane
-Possibly a reader of the Dan Cooper comics (not in English)
-Familiarity with the No. 6 (Columbia) Dry Cell Battery
-No accent

I accept that any suspect will fall short of filling in every clue, but any suspect needs to have substantial circumstantial evidence linking him to at least a bare majority of these facts.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #419 on: December 08, 2014, 03:19:13 PM »
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Quote
As for the tie, if a guy is willing to take someone else's money, he would probably take someone else's clothes also.  I think Cooper may have done a dry-run or two, and could have easily stolen someone else's suitcase from an airport, automobile or hotel.

When you're six feet tall, it's really hard finding the right size clothing to steal.

I'm trying to think of anytime I heard of a criminal stealing someone's clothes in order to perform a robbery... and I'm coming up blank. This has to be the least likely explanation for the evidence on Cooper's tie.

Interpretation of the clothing has always been biased - lite clothing ~ he died from exposure.

His choice of clothing may have been quite intentional. Planned to spend little time under a parachute. Bailed near civilisation. Nobody knows what resources he may have had waiting. His manner of dress, his time and place of bailing, suggests to me he was dressed appropriately and someone with a concrete plan and resources waiting. 

His is a very simple plan and he seems totally plan-oriented, to me. His plan is an escape plan first. He even tells Tina he doesn't really care about the money so keeping the money is secondary to his primary goal which is to escape. He doesn't even seem concerned about leaving evidence behind on the plane! It's an all-or-nothing plan with escape the primary goal, with or without the money. And that may be the reason he is never found! But some of his money was found...

Cooper is a goal oriented person who can focus (is used to focusing and carrying out tactical plans). His tie is merely part of his plan to help him accomplish a goal, to the extent of his knowledge and skills. How is he supposed to know that skin cells will yield dna - that kind of knowledge isn't even in his catalog of life knowledge. Making tactical attack plans is in his repertoire, and the simpler the better!

This guy was a tactical thinker with tactical experience. He keeps himself and everyone else focused and on-task right up to his leaving. The Transcripts do not convey but half of the conversations-communications Cooper made with Tina and the pilots right up to his leaving. 8:05 was not his last communication with the pilots, as the Transcripts and Rataczak report. He told Tina several times that the money was not that important to him (his primary goal). His primary mission was exorcising a personal grudge though hijacking a commercial airline and penetrating civilian and military security systems. We know part of his focus was McChord AFB. He expected the chutes to come from McChord which shows he had an awareness of how the military could play into this scenario. In my opinion he waited to jump until he was in a kind of 'transition zone' where he knew the plane would be handed off ...

The whole thing is a tactical mission as I see it. Performed by a person with some tactical training...   

His choice of that aircraft and that particular flight (recently added) are all tactical. (those facts and conditions offer a tactical advantage). His choice of where to bail is tactical also, imho.

The whole thing is tactical from beginning to end imho. (McCoy will follow Cooper and McCoy is active Ntl Guard!) 


 
   
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 03:46:48 PM by georger »