Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1821576 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #390 on: December 07, 2014, 08:27:09 PM »
most of you have seen this, but it shows the water dangers in the possible jump zone. this is a minute or so before crossing the Columbia. actually it shows right up to the crossing of the Columbia. this would be the 8:17 time mark if not mistaken...



« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 08:35:10 PM by shutter »
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #391 on: December 07, 2014, 08:29:38 PM »
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Cooper was likely a bit of a loner too.

If he died, no one missed him. The two missing persons (Lespy and Melwin) are not good Cooper candidates since neither one led the life that Kaye's tie analysis suggests Cooper lived, and their families filed missing person reports. The original investigators looked into missing persons, and none fit (as far as they were concerned)

If Cooper lived, well, he jumped into unknown territory the day before Thanksgiving. He clearly wasn't concerned about being missed by anyone on Thanksgiving day. In either case, Cooper was a good candidate to not be noticed by others.

A missing persons report was not filed on Melvin Wilson until a few years ago when I entered it into NamUs. At that time my NamUs Liaison had to contact a law enforcement officer to file a report so mine and my brother's DNA could be taken and logged into CODIS.

When I spoke with Jerry Thomas, a friend of Himmelsbach. He asked Ralph if my father was looked at...Ralph checked his files and my father was not in them.

At the time of the Hijacking, Melvin was missing for two months. He was a fugitive from Minneapolis/St Paul. He was originally arrested in Wisconsin and was on Wisconsin's Central US Marshal's top ten wanted fugitive list until 2001.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #392 on: December 07, 2014, 08:34:04 PM »
Good points Vicki. I forgot he wasn't listed yet....
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #393 on: December 07, 2014, 08:43:42 PM »
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How do we know the clothes he wore belonged to him? perhaps the whole thing was a disguise?

I've jumped back and forth on what happened to Cooper. I'm seeing evidence of the Columbia river getting closer as time passes as to where he possibly jumped. I've stated this before. we have the plane crossing the river upstream from the money find. we have the jump time getting closer to the river. it's possible he made it, and lost the money, but it's also possible in went into the river. the water doesn't always give up it's dead.

We also have a Major from McChord stating a different flight path as Robert99 has claimed. the money separated from the plane somewhere, and some how......it can drive you bonkers... ;D

The Tina Bar clouds everyone's thinking. In reality, it tells us very little other than Cooper and the money separated at some point.

I've thought about the clothes issue too, and here's my problem: Kaye's work on the tie and tie clip showed the clip had been in place on the tie for many years. How often does someone donate a tie and tie clip, together, that they've been wearing for years at their company? Maybe the original owner died, then the tie ended up in a thrift shop, but I tend to think the thrift shop would separate the tie from the clip, since the clip is probably worth more alone.

Regardless, even if Cooper picked up the tie at a thrift shop, the tie still has information on it about Cooper's home town: It had a chemical or other plant where titanium was machined. There were no northwestern spores on the tie, so Cooper did not live in pacific northwest.

Another thing is the shoes. How many criminals would wear new shoes to heist? Especially if you expected to do a lot of walking. I don't buy it. If I was trying to do a "Man In Black" disguise, I would still wear a pair of shoes I was comfortable in that at the very least sorta matched my outfit.
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #394 on: December 07, 2014, 08:49:58 PM »
andrade1812, I like your thinking chum.
I don't think Cooper landed in the Columbia but I keep thinking it's a possibility that he left by the Columbia. That briefcase went somewhere and to me the only secure place for a wind blast exit is in that bag, tied to his midsection, hanging on to it with both hands (non-steerable chute) for dear life. That money is the most important thing to you. It's all about the money! So space had to be made for that briefcase. You put money into that briefcase and you make some space for that briefcase in the bag. How much money? I dunno, how about $5800 worth as a guess. Cooper wanted a backpack of money, he got a canvas bag, it's fact he made a handle on it. That sounds like he meant carry not bury. The only way that $5800 got to the bar is it was put there.
I think Mitchell is a really valid witness. You read his story and he's all like his hair was so black, like too black, in fact so odd that it could've been a toupee, unlikely but dyed? Cooper looked like a dweeb to him, there was something off with his shoes or socks. (What kind of legit businessman wears a dark topcoat, dark suit, dark tie and brown shoes?)
Our man Cooper is so crazy about not leaving his notes, etc that he goes and leaves a tie! The only reason he would take that tie off to me is that it's in his way, like hanging down when he's cutting the chute cords. Maybe he puts on the chute, with an "x" harness across the chest which if his tie was on, it would be as secure as all Hell. In every book/movie/picture someone does to mimic Coooper's jump, that tie is on. Why? Because it's instinct. It's secure. It's part of the businessman M.O. I think Cooper wanted those stairs down to either bail if he was rushed by anyone in the crew or needed them down so he could rush out at the area he wanted to get into somewhere. He wanted to be able to go at a split decision. To me that tie came off pre-harness and in the panic of the stairs, getting out in the area he wanted he said "fuck it" and bailed.
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #395 on: December 07, 2014, 09:01:12 PM »
I would say Melvin Wilson is a bad suspect unless we can put him in or near a machine shop or factory working on titanium. Pictures showing him wearing a clip-on tie instead of a regular knotted tie would also be nice. Same with the tie clip. Wilson had an accent, Cooper did not. Wilson is a bad match for the FBI sketch. We should be able to get some kind of partial DNA match between Cooper's tie and the daughters. Etc, etc.

I hope the Wilson survivors get closure, and connecting him to the hijacking would help. However, the evidence is still lacking.

 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #396 on: December 07, 2014, 09:08:00 PM »
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I would say Melvin Wilson is a bad suspect unless we can put him in or near a machine shop or factory working on titanium. Pictures showing him wearing a clip-on tie instead of a regular knotted tie would also be nice. Same with the tie clip. Wilson had an accent, Cooper did not. Wilson is a bad match for the FBI sketch. We should be able to get some kind of partial DNA match between Cooper's tie and the daughters. Etc, etc.

I hope the Wilson survivors get closure, and connecting him to the hijacking would help. However, the evidence is still lacking.

Huh?  Wilson had an accent?

He was a printer working in a print shop. He was making counterfeit money and carving his metal plates by hand using them on an offset press. I am not sure of the composition of the plates.

I have stated this before....Bill Mitchell said the sketch does not look like the person he remembers on the plane that night. 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #397 on: December 07, 2014, 09:11:08 PM »
I think the sketch is taken for a photo more often than a sketch in my opinion.....
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #398 on: December 07, 2014, 09:12:19 PM »
In the Unsolved Mysteries segment on Wilson, Ruth said he had a British accent.

You'll have to ask an expert, of course, but I don't think a forger would use an expensive metal like titanium as printing plates. Not in 1970. Those plates would still be in evidence though, so it's an interesting lead.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 09:13:39 PM by andrade1812 »
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #399 on: December 07, 2014, 09:17:09 PM »
Fingerprints too, Wilson should have been processed when he was first arrested. The FBI collected tons of fingerprints on that plane. Wilson's fingerprints might still be evidence if for some reason he wasn't processed.
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #400 on: December 07, 2014, 09:23:06 PM »
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In the Unsolved Mysteries segment on Wilson, Ruth said he had a British accent.

You'll have to ask an expert, of course, but I don't think a forger would use an expensive metal like titanium as printing plates. Not in 1970. Those plates would still be in evidence though, so it's an interesting lead.

According to the Unsolved Mysteries episode...He had a "British accent" when Ruth R. met him in the early 50's. What Unsolved did not say....he used the fake accent to impress her. He also used his fake accent while working for British Motor Corporation in the Oakland/Berkeley area. He could sell more of those fancy little cars that way. This was told to me by Ruth...his first wife.

I knew him for a few years and can not recall him having an accent. His second wife also said he did not have an accent.

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Offline EVickiW

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #401 on: December 07, 2014, 09:26:05 PM »
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Fingerprints too, Wilson should have been processed when he was first arrested. The FBI collected tons of fingerprints on that plane. Wilson's fingerprints might still be evidence if for some reason he wasn't processed.

According to the US Marshal's in Central Wisconsin, Melvin's prints were never uploaded to the IAFIS database. They were on fingerprint cards. NamUs now has them as part of their database. However DNA and Fingerprints on file at NamUs are not routinely checked with FBI criminal cases without the FBI doing the checking.
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Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #402 on: December 07, 2014, 09:30:13 PM »
Let me throw something out there for fun. Feel free to chime in with anything.
Let's say all the evidence found on Cooper's tie didn't point to what he did for a living and let's include that annoying piece of pure titanium, let's say it all had to do with something Cooper built ... what would that thing be?
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #403 on: December 07, 2014, 09:33:06 PM »
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Let me throw something out there for fun. Feel free to chime in with anything.
Let's say all the evidence found on Cooper's tie didn't point to what he did for a living and let's include that annoying piece of pure titanium, let's say it all had to do with something Cooper built ... what would that thing be?

We can also conclude the tie, while in the plane or in evidence, could have picked up elements from its surroundings.
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Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #404 on: December 07, 2014, 09:34:08 PM »
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Fingerprints too, Wilson should have been processed when he was first arrested. The FBI collected tons of fingerprints on that plane. Wilson's fingerprints might still be evidence if for some reason he wasn't processed.

According to the US Marshal's in Central Wisconsin, Melvin's prints were never uploaded to the IAFIS database. They were on fingerprint cards. NamUs now has them as part of their database. However DNA and Fingerprints on file at NamUs are not routinely checked with FBI criminal cases without the FBI doing the checking.

It's good to clear that up... Wilson was also Canadian, right? Cooper used the phrase "Negotiable American Currency" which sounds nothing like an American. Did Wilson use language in an odd [Canadian or otherwise] way?