Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1821593 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #375 on: December 07, 2014, 03:00:20 AM »
Greetings Newbies,

You can always ask me questions and I'll give you five minutes worth of an answer.

A few places to look for answers. One is the Mountain News where most of my original research on Cooper was published. So you can read the full interview I have had with Bill Rataczak, Himmelsbach, riding around Camas with Jo Weber for a day (!), Marla, etc.... (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)

I've been on the case since 2008.  I also have a book coming out soon, "DB Cooper and the FBI - A Case Study of the Investigation into America's only Unsolved Skyjacking." It's about 500-pages of distilled sleuthing. I'll give you information on that as it becomes available.

Or if can buy me beer or lunch (or both) and ask away!

Here's my table of contents to help you peruse the DB Cooper saga:
Table of Contents

Chapter 1   An introduction to DB Cooper and the FBI’s investigation      4
Chapter 2   The skyjacking begins                  14
Chapter 3   The getaway                     27
Chapter 4   Physical profile of DB Cooper            42
Chapter 5   Sketches of DB Cooper               50
Chapter 6   The investigation begins, assessing the parachutes      55
Chapter 7   The murder of Earl Cossey, the parachute expert      87
Chapter 8   More problems with the flight path, weather, and the LZ   94
Chapter 9   The money find                  98
Chapter 10   Tina Mucklow, flight attendant and the primary witness   111
Chapter 11   A resurgent investigation and legacy of Larry Carr       134
Chapter 12   The Citizen Sleuths                  143
Chapter 13   Role of DNA                     157
Chapter 14   The DropZone; open-sourced sleuthing         160
Chapter 15   Ralph Himmelsbach and the 922 confessions      167
Chapter 16   The confession of Barb Dayton            173
Chapter 17   The deathbed confession of Duane Weber         182
Chapter 18   The near-confession of Kenny Christiansen         188
Chapter 19   The family confession of Wolfgang Gossett         192
Chapter 20   Vietnam, SOG and Ted Braden            198
Chapter 21   Sheridan Peterson - the ideal Cooper suspect       215
Chapter 22   Richard McCoy, MKULTRA, and the role of the CIA   225
Chapter 23:   Copycat skyjackers –a group effort?            242
Chapter 24   Robb Heady, an interview with a copycat         257
Chapter 25   Early suspects, Ted Mayfield, and the Cooper Vortex   267
Chapter 26   The Vortex conjures another suspect, Don Burnworth   272
Chapter 27   â€śMost promising” suspect, Marla Cooper’s Uncle LD   290
Chapter 28   Letters from “DB Cooper,” and the mysterious Al Di   313
Chapter 29   Cyber attacks on Cooper investigators         325
Chapter 30   Is there a cover-up?                  335
Chapter 31   Remote Viewing, a new forensic tool            341
Chapter 32   What’s next in the DB Cooper case?            355
Reference A:  Who’s Who of Norjak – The Hunters and the Hijacked   365
Reference B:  What if DB Cooper didn’t jump?            382
Reference C:  Synopsis of the parachute controversy         385
Reference D:  The filming of the Barb Dayton documentary         392
Reference E:  Timeline for Curtis Eng and the “Marla Show”      402
Reference F:  Bill Mitchell, interview with a primary witness      406
Reference G:  2013 Symposium                  417
Index                              422
Acknowledgements                        431
Biography of the Author, author’s note               433
Photo Gallery
 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #376 on: December 07, 2014, 03:03:27 AM »
Shut, maybe we should have a newbie section, so folks can tip-toe into these waters before some of us smell fresh meat....
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #377 on: December 07, 2014, 08:24:35 AM »
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Hey everyone, please forgive me if this is the wrong place to post and again for possibly side-tracking the thread, as I am new to the forum. I was wondering if anyone could point me to (if released) any recorded material, transcripts, et al. of the actual interviews conducted by the FBI of the flight crew after the Reno arrival? - thx (and hello!)

Welcome,

I'm new too, and I have a ton of questions. There should be a thread specifically for information requests. There is a lot of knowledge held by many of the regular posters, and a lot of that knowledge is not accessible. I definitely don't feel comfortable messaging individual members for information, at least not yet.

Good points. I'm trying to get things organized so people can access things easily. I understand questions need to be asked and I hope nobody holds back in asking them. If a "Newbie" thread needs to be open I can do that. perhaps calling it "General Questions about the case"  :-\

Members new to this forum:

Make sure you also take advantage of what is already here in the multiple threads and the photo gallery. another good source is the video & links vault with lots of information about the case.

This is a good source here as well...."Transcripts From Flight 305 ( including PDF Files From WSHS)"

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I don't want anyone worried about asking a questions here at any time. I created this forum to explore the DB Cooper case and asking questions is one of things required. If you feel you are not ready to ask any members a question in private feel free to
PM me with any questions about this forum, or the case.

Shutter


« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 02:31:14 PM by shutter »
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #378 on: December 07, 2014, 03:37:24 PM »
Thanks for the reception. I'm actually not too new to the Cooperama as much as I am to the forum. I've been through the DZ etc. but maybe someone here could clear this one up for me.
I keep hearing the jets scrambled to follow 305 as being so fast that they had to zig-zag to maintain contact with the aircraft yet the only factual reference I've ever seen is the statement that they caught up with 305 at Red Bluff CA. It's important to me to get an idea of why they saw nobody leave the aircraft or why air force pilots wouldn't see a 26/28 non-steerable chute? Anybody clear that up the trailing jet issue for me?

* it might be interesting to have a short introduction profile thread. Because this forum is small it would be good to know if someone has chemistry experience etc. For instance I'm Canadian, it's why I LOL'd all the way through this new CSIS/FLQ theory. I've also worked around aircraft for about twenty years and that includes being up and down the 727 stairs. I would love a chemist to be in here somewhere. Anyone know electrochemistry?
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #379 on: December 07, 2014, 04:20:34 PM »
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Thanks for the reception. I'm actually not too new to the Cooperama as much as I am to the forum. I've been through the DZ etc. but maybe someone here could clear this one up for me.
I keep hearing the jets scrambled to follow 305 as being so fast that they had to zig-zag to maintain contact with the aircraft yet the only factual reference I've ever seen is the statement that they caught up with 305 at Red Bluff CA. It's important to me to get an idea of why they saw nobody leave the aircraft or why air force pilots wouldn't see a 26/28 non-steerable chute? Anybody clear that up the trailing jet issue for me?

* it might be interesting to have a short introduction profile thread. Because this forum is small it would be good to know if someone has chemistry experience etc. For instance I'm Canadian, it's why I LOL'd all the way through this new CSIS/FLQ theory. I've also worked around aircraft for about twenty years and that includes being up and down the 727 stairs. I would love a chemist to be in here somewhere. Anyone know electrochemistry?

Maybe you need to explain to us why 'electrochemistry' is important in this case?

 :)
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #380 on: December 07, 2014, 04:27:04 PM »
Let me say I'm also not new to Cooperdom, I've read Norjack/Skyjack/Tosaw, Mr. Smith's website, Sluggo's website and a few thousand DZ forum posts. The problem is, the questions I have aren't about the basics, and they also have nothing to do with the Tina Bar find (the main topic of discussion everywhere). So I would concur with a request forum (newbie thread, whatever).
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #381 on: December 07, 2014, 04:44:58 PM »
Moriarty-

Yup, the behavior of the jets and their pilots is a mystery. Why they couldn't see anything, is, I suppose a function of rain and darkness.

But the bigger question is how come they didn't have any radar contact with 305 and Cooper.

I have written extensively on this subject, and many others have as well at the DZ. Here are the basic thoughts on this issue - remember, this is pure speculation:

One theory is that the pilots and their radar systems were functioning properly but their findings have been kept secret to:

1. Not let the Russkies know how good our tech was.

OR

2. Not let the Russkies know how poor our tech was, along with not letting the American taxpayers know how much money was wasted on junk tech.

OR

3. Big Power wanted Cooper to get away successfully.

A Washington State legislature told a news reporter in the late 1970s that back in 1971 when he was a flight ops officer at McChord AB, he was instructed by his superiors at NORAD to order the chase pilots to back off and not get too close. He was also ordered not to place any chaff in the parachutes, which never went to Cooper because of the skyjacker's demands.

Regardless, to properly evaluate the actions of the USAF and their equipment regarding DB Cooper, it is helpful to know what else was going on at that time in term of looking for Cooper.

To begin, the ground search didn't begin until the next morning. Daylight was about 8 am. So Cooper had a sizeable head-start.

Secondly, most of the LZ was searched by fixed wing and helo, and experienced a lot of delays and interruptions due to fog, rain and cloud cover.

Third, the ground search was minimal. Over the four-day period before ops were canceled by the FBI, only one square mile was search by boots on the ground in a suspected LZ of 24 square miles. The whole area was not searched for another five months. When questioned, the Bureau says that there was too much snow on the ground, but weather reports rebuke that claim, as do the folks who live in Ariel and Amboy. They report the snow level was around 1,500-feet, well above the rolling hills of the LZ.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #382 on: December 07, 2014, 04:50:47 PM »
Andrade - since we've spared a bit, I feel more comfortable if you'd call me Cousin Brucie, or Prince Bruce. Both work for me.  "Mr. Smith" is the name I go by in a Doctor's office when I'm waiting for an appointment.

(smile)
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #383 on: December 07, 2014, 04:54:31 PM »
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And as far as I can tell, the stuff the FBI has released to the public is mostly junk. Several authors have gotten access to those unreleased FBI records, I'd look at Ralph Himmelsbach's book "Norjak", Richard Tosaw's book "DB Cooper, Dead or Alive" and Gray's book "Skyjack."

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What you post, of course, is the $64 dollar question. Why wasn't more progress made in the case (so far as we know), and when will the gods open the heavens and dispense gifts and solutions for Humankind in this matter! Because everyone who has ever delved into this matter has come out empty handed, as it were, which presumably includes the FBI and all other agencies of human endeavor (including NASA, RobertMBlevins, and even Jo Weber!) alike! "It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key" ?  :)

What is wrong since so many "smart guys" failed to put a lid on this genie in a bottle? Is it a problem of "facts", politics, or what? Was the case actually solved and the public was just never informed for some reason? Apparently this simple case can't be solved, like some mathematical puzzles. Maybe the problem is not "smart guys" not being smart so much as "smart guys" not having been correctly ORDAINED! The right mantra or curse is missing! Nam-mio-ho-renge-kyo!. Freddy is the devil. Duane Weber was D.B. Cooper!

Mairzy doats and dozy doats
And liddle lamzy divey
A kiddley divey too, wouldn't you?
Yes! Mairzy doats and dozy doats
and liddle lamzy divey
A kiddley divey too, wouldn't you?

There my friends is the solution. It was sitting in plain sight all along.

"Smart guys" can all stop wasting energy now. Better to go out and check and count the cows to make sure they are all there.

Or maybe there are too many cooks making a small stew?

 ;)         
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 04:57:17 PM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #384 on: December 07, 2014, 05:02:35 PM »
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Moriarty-

Yup, the behavior of the jets and their pilots is a mystery. Why they couldn't see anything, is, I suppose a function of rain and darkness.

But the bigger question is how come they didn't have any radar contact with 305 and Cooper.

I have written extensively on this subject, and many others have as well at the DZ. Here are the basic thoughts on this issue - remember, this is pure speculation:

One theory is that the pilots and their radar systems were functioning properly but their findings have been kept secret to:

1. Not let the Russkies know how good our tech was.

OR

2. Not let the Russkies know how poor our tech was, along with not letting the American taxpayers know how much money was wasted on junk tech.

OR

3. Big Power wanted Cooper to get away successfully.

A Washington State legislature told a news reporter in the late 1970s that back in 1971 when he was a flight ops officer at McChord AB, he was instructed by his superiors at NORAD to order the chase pilots to back off and not get too close. He was also ordered not to place any chaff in the parachutes, which never went to Cooper because of the skyjacker's demands.

Regardless, to properly evaluate the actions of the USAF and their equipment regarding DB Cooper, it is helpful to know what else was going on at that time in term of looking for Cooper.

To begin, the ground search didn't begin until the next morning. Daylight was about 8 am. So Cooper had a sizeable head-start.

Secondly, most of the LZ was searched by fixed wing and helo, and experienced a lot of delays and interruptions due to fog, rain and cloud cover.

Third, the ground search was minimal. Over the four-day period before ops were canceled by the FBI, only one square mile was search by boots on the ground in a suspected LZ of 24 square miles. The whole area was not searched for another five months. When questioned, the Bureau says that there was too much snow on the ground, but weather reports rebuke that claim, as do the folks who live in Ariel and Amboy. They report the snow level was around 1,500-feet, well above the rolling hills of the LZ.

And if you look at all of yours above one vital thing is missing: today's technology and the application of that technology ... could have made the difference. You can blame people for that if you want or you can just chalk it up to 'cousin Mary died because there weren't kidney transplants... yet!'  She was well loved and We remember her well.
She would have 25 grandchildren today. Her husband Bob died just last year - he never remarried.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 05:04:42 PM by georger »
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #385 on: December 07, 2014, 05:30:15 PM »
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Andrade - since we've spared a bit, I feel more comfortable if you'd call me Cousin Brucie, or Prince Bruce. Both work for me.  "Mr. Smith" is the name I go by in a Doctor's office when I'm waiting for an appointment.

(smile)

"Prince Bruce" it shall be. I may message you with a bunch of questions sometime soon (I'm a novelist, which is my primary interest in the case, I'm working on a novel that incorporates all the "science" of the case with the known narrative)
 

Moriarty

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #386 on: December 07, 2014, 07:02:38 PM »
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Maybe you need to explain to us why 'electrochemistry' is important in this case?

 :)

There's a sample on Cooper's tie that I notice that needs to be run by an electrochemist but I'm having problems getting one to respond. I believe the sample is similiar to a Zinc electrodeposition with polyethylene glycol. If that is correct then I'm going to explore in a specific direction.I suppose my idea is that if everyone has gone down these theory roads and nothings worked, it's time to go down some different roads.
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.... The problem is, the questions I have aren't about the basics, ....

Haha, man for me andrade1812, it's all about the basics. Something that makes me crazy is this basic situation: Let's say Cooper died in the jump. Let's say Cooper survived the jump. What I keep thinking about are valid reasons that no one could/would identify Cooper? The idea that Cooper would skyjack a plane and then go back to work on a Monday and somebody wouldn't say "Hey man, you look like DB Cooper?" or say to authorities that my co-worker looks like this Cooper dude is crazy. So is skyjacking in a business suit because you "feel most comfortable in it." I think he wore the suit to fit in, be invisible. To say (FBI) that Cooper was a middle management/executive etc because of the suit, tie, briefcase etc, is ridiculous to me. He might well have committed the crime with an honest "My name is ______" sticker on himself. Cooper doesn't seem that stupid to me.
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #387 on: December 07, 2014, 07:32:38 PM »
One of the stewards said Cooper "Wasn't the tie type", I'll have to track down what book that was in.

In my mind, the big problem with DB Cooper is the sketch makes him look like a scrawny man, emaciated, in reality he was an athletic six feet. He also has a "see what you want" kind of face. Ted Bundy was seen by a lot of people, but he had a face people couldn't register as unique, and small changes in appearance produced large changes in perception.

Here's what Wikpedia has to say about Ted bundy:

Quote
Other significant obstacles for law enforcement were Bundy's generic, essentially anonymous physical features,[275] and a curious chameleon-like ability to change his appearance almost at will.[276] Early on, police complained of the futility of showing his photograph to witnesses; he looked different in virtually every photo ever taken of him.[277] In person, "... his expression would so change his whole appearance that there were moments that you weren't even sure you were looking at the same person," said Stewart Hanson, Jr., the judge in the DaRonch trial. "He [was] really a changeling."[278] Bundy was well aware of this unusual quality and he exploited it, using subtle modifications of facial hair or hairstyle to significantly alter his appearance as necessary.

This might be a major factor in why Cooper has never been tracked down. And why there are so many Cooper confessors who are, on the surface, plausible.
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #388 on: December 07, 2014, 07:50:26 PM »
Cooper was likely a bit of a loner too.

If he died, no one missed him. The two missing persons (Lespy and Melwin) are not good Cooper candidates since neither one led the life that Kaye's tie analysis suggests Cooper lived, and their families filed missing person reports. The original investigators looked into missing persons, and none fit (as far as they were concerned)

If Cooper lived, well, he jumped into unknown territory the day before Thanksgiving. He clearly wasn't concerned about being missed by anyone on Thanksgiving day. In either case, Cooper was a good candidate to not be noticed by others.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #389 on: December 07, 2014, 08:10:19 PM »
How do we know the clothes he wore belonged to him? perhaps the whole thing was a disguise?

I've jumped back and forth on what happened to Cooper. I'm seeing evidence of the Columbia river getting closer as time passes as to where he possibly jumped. I've stated this before. we have the plane crossing the river upstream from the money find. we have the jump time getting closer to the river. it's possible he made it, and lost the money, but it's also possible in went into the river. the water doesn't always give up it's dead.

We also have a Major from McChord stating a different flight path as Robert99 has claimed. the money separated from the plane somewhere, and some how......it can drive you bonkers... ;D