Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1562669 times)

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3735 on: October 26, 2018, 06:12:39 PM »
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I am willing to loan my Cooper twenty to Tom if he wants to do some nondestructive testing and analysis on it. I know and trust Tom and Al. I'm confident they would take care in their handling of my sacred artifact. It forms the centerpiece of my Cooper shrine.

377

G claimed Brian told him they separated the money using liquid dish detergent.. perhaps Tom can determine the brand..

That is not the full account of what I said, or what the Ingram family members said, or Ckret said, or what others said. Go back and read the thread! Or ask Tom.  :))


This is what you said... is it not accurate? any changes...

What would be the impact on any forensic evidence..

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"I do know this, however: Brian Ingram told me that all bill
bundles were taken to his home and his parents seperated the
bills using liquid dish detergent. These bills were seperated at the
Ingram home before they were deleivered to the Portland FO.

Therefore, it is certain that the true bill order could never be
established from the Tina Bar find."
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 06:25:26 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3736 on: October 26, 2018, 07:05:11 PM »
Thanks to Tom Kaye, and Shutter, for getting the full data from the SEM work up on Tom's site.
So let's look

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Tom notes that Nickel counts should be ignored due to equipment issues.

Looking at Summary 1 Excel
Sample 559 sorted by %
Sample 560 and 566 are in there too, but distribution is roughly similar to my eye.
Hmm no Yttrium? I guess maybe in the next file

THis gives a different feel to me.
      Sample 559   
   Class   Number   %
7   Silicon-rich   2459   58.7%
9   Calcium-rich   561   13.4%
33   #Unclassified#   218   5.2%
19   Salts   184   4.4%
6   Iron-rich   163   3.9%
22   Bismuth Chloride   152   3.6%
5   Aluminum-rich   108   2.6%
10   Titanium-rich   86   2.1%
11   Zinc-rich   52   1.2%
31   Antimony-rich   43   1.0%
27   Chlorine-rich   38   0.9%
16   Nickel-rich   34   0.8%
30   Magnesium-rich   30   0.7%
20   Gold   12   0.3%
12   Copper-rich   11   0.3%
23   Barium Sulfate   8   0.2%
18   Zirconium-rich   6   0.1%
28   Phosphorus-rich   6   0.1%
24   Sodium, Sulfur-rich   5   0.1%
4   Brass   4   0.1%
8   Calcium-Phosphorus   3   0.1%
3   400 Series S.S.   2   0.0%
2   300 Series S.S.   1   0.0%
17   Tin-rich   1   0.0%
25   Sodium-rich   1   0.0%
1   Fluorine-rich   0   -
13   Tungsten-rich   0   -
14   Molybdenum-rich   0   -
15   Chromium-rich   0   -
21   Corrosion   0   -
26   Sulfur-rich   0   -
29   Bromine-rich   0   -
32   Platinum-rich   0   -
   TOTAL   4188   100.0%


« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 07:12:04 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3737 on: October 26, 2018, 07:10:35 PM »
oh the files are bullshit

Tom says " The summaries do not show the rarer more interesting particles just the overall picture.  "

So he's not releasing the particle counts for the rare earth stuff?
WTF? He talks it up in the news release, but doesn't release the data?

I don't believe the data then. I don't think he has data on Yttrium, or it's so trace, that it's embarassing to publish.

What a crock of shit. This is not science.

Unless the Yttrium is buried in some other tabs, and excluded from the summaries??

 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3738 on: October 26, 2018, 07:15:28 PM »
I noticed the samething and am awaiting a reply...
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3739 on: October 26, 2018, 07:16:06 PM »
Seems to me, that Tom cherrypicked in reporting the data
On his site, he lists a boatload of stuff found..its so wide ranging, I don't know what it means.
For these elements, the relative amounts aren't listed, at least not that I can see yet

Some of the interesting particles found:

300 series SS - 500 pcs
400 series SS - 150 pcs
Cerium 99% pure
Cerium Lanthanum - lighter flint
Yittrium - red phosphor in TV screens
Strontium Sulfide - phosphor
Phosphorus 97% pure - matches
Lead Phosphate - no info
Cadmium
Vanadium
Zinc
Barium Chloride -radioactive influences phosphors
Barium Sulfate- a phosphor
Tungsten
tungsten cobalt
FeTiPbCu
Iron Cobalt
Calcium Flourine
Potassium Chlorate = matches
Antimony Sufide -  From matches (No Particles found on tie so  the pure Antimony below is not likely from matches)
Antimony 99% - Antimony compounds, primarily sodium antimonate, are also used in decolorizing and refining agents for optical glass and CRT glass.
Mercury Sulfide - cinnabar pigment
Bismuth Chloride - glitter
tin copper bromine
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 07:17:37 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3740 on: October 26, 2018, 07:20:33 PM »
"Bismuth Chloride - glitter"

Strippers used glitter. That rules out maybe 1% of skydivers.

377
 
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3741 on: October 26, 2018, 07:21:16 PM »
Cause I'm wondering
are we talking about traces that are just barely detectable?
And again, what form of Yttrium

and in the file, it says Ti-rich

How did he distinguish Ti pure vs Ti alloy?
Both are Ti-rich in my mind?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3742 on: October 26, 2018, 07:25:55 PM »
alloy has different metals..I'm guessing the piece found was pure..
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 07:26:37 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3743 on: October 26, 2018, 07:31:01 PM »
well we could ask Tom what the "-rich" suffix means on the stuff
I think it just means "high percentage of" ..when applied to the prefix.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3744 on: October 26, 2018, 07:31:53 PM »
Tom just responded saying it's in the 500 series file....
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3745 on: October 26, 2018, 07:32:32 PM »
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alloy has different metals..I'm guessing the piece found was pure..

yes CP TI = Commercially Pure Titanium, was used on the 727. May or may not have been picked up on plane.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3746 on: October 26, 2018, 07:36:37 PM »
I'm looking in McCrone500 Series excel file

can't find Yttrium
Unless it's in the "#Unclassified#" group?

How do we break down "#Unclassified#" if so, percentage-wise?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3747 on: October 26, 2018, 07:37:11 PM »
look under summary 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3748 on: October 26, 2018, 07:37:43 PM »
Titanium-rich   86   2.1%      77   2.1%      206   3.4%   
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3749 on: October 26, 2018, 07:40:42 PM »
                           
      Sample 559         Sample 560         Sample 566   
   Class   Number   %      Number   %      Number   %
1   Fluorine-rich   0   -      0   -      0   -
2   300 Series S.S.   1   0.0%      23   0.6%      11   0.2%
3   400 Series S.S.   2   0.0%      0   -      3   0.0%
4   Brass   4   0.1%      1   0.0%      3   0.0%
5   Aluminum-rich   108   2.6%      318   8.6%      229   3.8%
6   Iron-rich   163   3.9%      358   9.7%      498   8.2%
7   Silicon-rich   2459   58.7%      1315   35.7%      2566   42.2%
8   Calcium-Phosphorus   3   0.1%      10   0.3%      83   1.4%
9   Calcium-rich   561   13.4%      747   20.3%      1191   19.6%
10   Titanium-rich   86   2.1%      77   2.1%      206   3.4%
11   Zinc-rich   52   1.2%      12   0.3%      16   0.3%
12   Copper-rich   11   0.3%      12   0.3%      43   0.7%
13   Tungsten-rich   0   -      0   -      0   -
14   Molybdenum-rich   0   -      0   -      0   -
15   Chromium-rich   0   -      24   0.7%      5   0.1%
16   Nickel-rich   34   0.8%      36   1.0%      41   0.7%
17   Tin-rich   1   0.0%      26   0.7%      3   0.0%
18   Zirconium-rich   6   0.1%      2   0.1%      7   0.1%
19   Salts   184   4.4%      135   3.7%      114   1.9%
20   Gold   12   0.3%      67   1.8%      14   0.2%
21   Corrosion   0   -      0   -      1   0.0%
22   Bismuth Chloride   152   3.6%      16   0.4%      34   0.6%
23   Barium Sulfate   8   0.2%      13   0.4%      32   0.5%
24   Sodium, Sulfur-rich   5   0.1%      11   0.3%      21   0.3%
25   Sodium-rich   1   0.0%      2   0.1%      0   -
26   Sulfur-rich   0   -      0   -      0   -
27   Chlorine-rich   38   0.9%      30   0.8%      46   0.8%
28   Phosphorus-rich   6   0.1%      6   0.2%      13   0.2%
29   Bromine-rich   0   -      1   0.0%      0   -
30   Magnesium-rich   30   0.7%      37   1.0%      30   0.5%
31   Antimony-rich   43   1.0%      142   3.9%      150   2.5%
32   Platinum-rich   0   -      0   -      0   -
33   #Unclassified#   218   5.2%      265   7.2%      715   11.8%
   TOTAL   4188   100.0%      3686   100.0%      6075   100.0%
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 07:41:06 PM by Shutter »