Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case (Read 1562056 times)

snowmman · « **Reply #3510 on:** October 23, 2018, 11:00:37 AM »

So then if I say the most likely thing is the money landed in the Columbia, the question is: Did it land down near PDX, or did it fall out of the air near Tena Bar.

If it fell out of the air near Tena Bar, then Cooper deployed his canopy. The distance is too far for falling money to be blow by wind from the flight path.

I suppose we can't say, because it can't be ruled out that the found money appearance allows a water landing at PDX.

So then there's the whole question of saying whether he could have jumped near PDX, not deployed canopy, and body and rig just disappeared in the Columbia.

I would think a body would have been found if it landed in the Columbia.

It sure seems like there's not much more info that can be extracted from the found money at Tena Bar. It's actually not that crazy that money was found there. Human plant not needed.

snowmman · « **Reply #3511 on:** October 23, 2018, 11:04:18 AM »

It was crazy to me how much abuse I got from Ckret back in the day talking about dredging.
He seemed so adamant that there were no dredging effects....I guess solely because of the idea that a bladed dredger is not supposed to allow things through of a certain size...even if the "thing" is flexible. But I had posted pictures of things that got thru bladed dredgers in the past...A good experiment would have been to throw a bag of fake banded bills thru a dredger. Solve the question.

Unsurelock · « **Reply #3512 on:** October 23, 2018, 11:09:47 AM »

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It was crazy to me how much abuse I got from Ckret back in the day talking about dredging.
He seemed so adamant that there were no dredging effects....I guess solely because of the idea that a bladed dredger is not supposed to allow things through of a certain size...even if the "thing" is flexible. But I had posted pictures of things that got thru bladed dredgers in the past...A good experiment would have been to throw a bag of fake banded bills thru a dredger. Solve the question.

Tom Kaye hadn't heard of anyone doing that with a brick of cash yet, so I'm planning on finding one in operation at some point and experimenting. Was supposed to start with a simple shard experiment last month but got rained out.

FLYJACK · « **Reply #3513 on:** October 23, 2018, 11:36:21 AM »

I don't see the money going through a suction dredge and ending up that condition (paper or rubber bands).. 3 packets together.. hard to believe.. if they were separate they wouldn't land together, if they were rubber banded together I can't see a rubber bands not breaking and packets separating.. the only possibility is they went through in some container.

Lots of ways the money could get there.

There was a 200,000 cu yard erosion mitigation project in 1976/77 on Sauvie right across and just upstream of TBAR.. clamshell dredge and barge material from down the Columbia.. even mouth of Lewis..

I think a later jump over the Willamette Valley can't be ruled out, money brought to TBAR via Willamette River.

also, working on this one,, money discarded by somebody other than the hijacker, (but not planted) in the mid/late 70's...

There is also a very remote theoretical possibility that the TBAR money wasn't part of Cooper's ransom.. but that is too upsetting for some to even consider, especially those that don't understand the fragile and unverified process that created the FBI bill list.

There was a rogue garbage dump surrounded by the Slough a few miles upstream of TBAR..

etc. etc.

FLYJACK · « **Reply #3514 on:** October 23, 2018, 11:38:31 AM »

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It was crazy to me how much abuse I got from Ckret back in the day talking about dredging.
He seemed so adamant that there were no dredging effects....I guess solely because of the idea that a bladed dredger is not supposed to allow things through of a certain size...even if the "thing" is flexible. But I had posted pictures of things that got thru bladed dredgers in the past...A good experiment would have been to throw a bag of fake banded bills thru a dredger. Solve the question.

Tom Kaye hadn't heard of anyone doing that with a brick of cash yet, so I'm planning on finding one in operation at some point and experimenting. Was supposed to start with a simple shard experiment last month but got rained out.

If you do the experiment try running a canvas "bank" bag through...

EU · « **Reply #3515 on:** October 23, 2018, 12:48:12 PM »

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Tom Kaye has the location further south which was wrong. I would often go back and forth about this with R99. it's pretty much underwater most of the time now. Tom's location puts it south of the diagonal road when it was on the other side (north). R99 would often say just behind the containment pond which again is too far south...

The sand/slurry was piped directly on to the beach. the first photo is on T-bar in 1984 and the second pic is in 1974 at Hayden Island

This is would be a great discussion to have at the conference with A/V equipment to point out certain aspects from both the still photos as well as moving footage from the air and on the ground.

I have spent a lot of time looking at this too and think Tom's spot is somewhat off. That said, my eye points to the exact spot being where I've marked the black "X" in the attached images. My spot is a little DOWNSTREAM, in other words NORTH, from Tom's spot and thus further away from the dredge spoils.

In the 1980 TV footage you can see the bulging of the dredge spoils from the beach about 250 feet UPSTREAM (SOUTH) from the money find spot. Additionally, there are two other features--the diagonal road and what I call the river road--that point to the spot I've marked which is maybe 140 feet north of Tom's spot.

georger · « **Reply #3516 on:** October 23, 2018, 01:16:43 PM »

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Tom Kaye has the location further south which was wrong. I would often go back and forth about this with R99. it's pretty much underwater most of the time now. Tom's location puts it south of the diagonal road when it was on the other side (north). R99 would often say just behind the containment pond which again is too far south...

The sand/slurry was piped directly on to the beach. the first photo is on T-bar in 1984 and the second pic is in 1974 at Hayden Island

This is would be a great discussion to have at the conference with A/V equipment to point out certain aspects from both the still photos as well as moving footage from the air and on the ground.

I have spent a lot of time looking at this too and think Tom's spot is somewhat off. That said, my eye points to the exact spot being where I've marked the black "X" in the attached images. My spot is a little DOWNSTREAM, in other words NORTH, from Tom's spot and thus further away from the dredge spoils.

In the 1980 TV footage you can see the bulging of the dredge spoils from the beach about 250 feet UPSTREAM (SOUTH) from the money find spot. Additionally, there are two other features--the diagonal road and what I call the river road--that point to the spot I've marked which is maybe 140 feet north of Tom's spot.

Show your scale you use for measuring stuff at T_Bar !

EU · « **Reply #3517 on:** October 23, 2018, 01:20:25 PM »

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Tom Kaye has the location further south which was wrong. I would often go back and forth about this with R99. it's pretty much underwater most of the time now. Tom's location puts it south of the diagonal road when it was on the other side (north). R99 would often say just behind the containment pond which again is too far south...

The sand/slurry was piped directly on to the beach. the first photo is on T-bar in 1984 and the second pic is in 1974 at Hayden Island

This is would be a great discussion to have at the conference with A/V equipment to point out certain aspects from both the still photos as well as moving footage from the air and on the ground.

I have spent a lot of time looking at this too and think Tom's spot is somewhat off. That said, my eye points to the exact spot being where I've marked the black "X" in the attached images. My spot is a little DOWNSTREAM, in other words NORTH, from Tom's spot and thus further away from the dredge spoils.

In the 1980 TV footage you can see the bulging of the dredge spoils from the beach about 250 feet UPSTREAM (SOUTH) from the money find spot. Additionally, there are two other features--the diagonal road and what I call the river road--that point to the spot I've marked which is maybe 140 feet north of Tom's spot.

Show your scale you use for measuring stuff at T_Bar !

I was using the 20' trenches for scale. I would count the trenches, do the math, then estimate in some areas. I believe it's reasonably accurate.

georger · « **Reply #3518 on:** October 23, 2018, 01:34:41 PM »

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Tom Kaye has the location further south which was wrong. I would often go back and forth about this with R99. it's pretty much underwater most of the time now. Tom's location puts it south of the diagonal road when it was on the other side (north). R99 would often say just behind the containment pond which again is too far south...

The sand/slurry was piped directly on to the beach. the first photo is on T-bar in 1984 and the second pic is in 1974 at Hayden Island

This is would be a great discussion to have at the conference with A/V equipment to point out certain aspects from both the still photos as well as moving footage from the air and on the ground.

I have spent a lot of time looking at this too and think Tom's spot is somewhat off. That said, my eye points to the exact spot being where I've marked the black "X" in the attached images. My spot is a little DOWNSTREAM, in other words NORTH, from Tom's spot and thus further away from the dredge spoils.

In the 1980 TV footage you can see the bulging of the dredge spoils from the beach about 250 feet UPSTREAM (SOUTH) from the money find spot. Additionally, there are two other features--the diagonal road and what I call the river road--that point to the spot I've marked which is maybe 140 feet north of Tom's spot.

Show your scale you use for measuring stuff at T_Bar !

I was using the 20' trenches for scale. I would count the trenches, do the math, then estimate in some areas. I believe it's reasonably accurate.

. . . .

snowmman · « **Reply #3519 on:** October 23, 2018, 01:45:06 PM »

Re: 1980 "bulging of dredge spoils" ..the overhead photo from 1979 in the montage I posted shows just a subtle bulge, right? Especially compared to 1974

FLYJACK · « **Reply #3520 on:** October 23, 2018, 02:00:00 PM »

Kaye got it real close,,,

Himmelsbach is pointing to it with a pen...

snowmman · « **Reply #3521 on:** October 23, 2018, 02:42:56 PM »

Why is Himmelsbach's pen more authoritative then overhead photos of the fbi search on day 1?

snowmman · « **Reply #3522 on:** October 23, 2018, 02:46:19 PM »

The overhead search photos say closer to waterline to me than Kaye's pin

FLYJACK · « **Reply #3523 on:** October 23, 2018, 02:52:21 PM »

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The overhead search photos say closer to waterline to me than Kaye's pin

The pen is mightier than the fjord... Kaye's careful analysis and Himmelspen are very close, that's corroboration.

Not 100% proof but best we gots,, IMO

It could be few feet closer to the water, hard to be sure with changing water levels but he has the N/S orientation nailed..

snowmman · « **Reply #3524 on:** October 23, 2018, 03:11:43 PM »

Ckret had posted that he found the film of the air drop test. But never posted a video
he did post photos. There's a photo somewhere looking out the airstairs showing the gauges in place there. Trying to find it.

here's where he said he had the film but nothing resulted from it (attached)

Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case (Read 1562056 times)

snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

Unsurelock

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

FLYJACK

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

FLYJACK

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

EU

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

EU

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

FLYJACK

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

FLYJACK

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case