Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case (Read 1562052 times)

georger · « **Reply #3495 on:** October 22, 2018, 06:04:28 PM »

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I had also posted some stuff on all the possible places the dredge material on Tena Bar may have been sucked or dug up from.

Is there any consensus on where the dredge spoils from Tena Bar came from?

I also had raised the issue that a digger might have been used for some dredge spoils as opposed to the suction dredge that was around..i.e. both may have been used.

I had been a fan of Cooper jumping in the Columbia near PDX, with a digger or suction dredge getting spoils/money and transporting to Tena Bar.

Regardless of what Tom said about deposit areas on Tena Bar, did anyond do work tracing the source of dredge spoils on Tena Bar?

REED THE THREAD .

georger · « **Reply #3496 on:** October 22, 2018, 06:06:19 PM »

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Just realized I have a hard time believing Tom Kaye pinpointed the money find location accurately from the photos.
Looking at a photo on his site, he overlayed a photo that's very similar to the one I posted (from the air) onto current google earth

You can see the people faintly in the photo, and the areas where the surface is disturbed as part of the search

Yet, he pinpoints the money find location has being far away from where the majority of the people are, and where all the surface has been disturbed. That's hard to believe. I would think they would start digging/disturbing near the money find.

I'm not sure why the money find location he marked, makes sense with the photo and photo overlay

attached two pics (the 2nd, overlay one is from Tom's site, first is from newspaper as identified)

the two pics seem to be taken close in time. There are 4 unsearched but marked areas, in between two searched areas.
The larger searched area is to the right, smaller to the left. I would guess the smaller searched area to the left might be close to the money find area?

They did not excavete where there were no paper bands ?

FLYJACK · « **Reply #3497 on:** October 22, 2018, 06:19:57 PM »

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Fly, explain no presents of paper bands were never found between the bills?
according to Tom Kaye, city dumps have issues with thin newspaper degrading...

IMO, the bills would of protected the bands from weather a lot longer..not the sides or exposed area's...

Tom states:
Definitely not as long as bills but the ones between the bills would have still been there. They have a problem with newsprint never degrading in dumps etc.

Tk

So, anybody guess what washing bills in liquid dish detergent would do to trace "evidence"?

Georger.. from DZ

"I do know this, however: Brian Ingram told me that all bill
bundles were taken to his home and his parents seperated the
bills using liquid dish detergent. These bills were seperated at the
Ingram home before they were deleivered to the Portland FO."

nobody said they waSHED ALL THE BILLS IN DETERGENT!

KEEP INVENTING STUFF FOR YOUR SCI FI NOVEL.

Your own statement contradicts your own argument..

snowmman · « **Reply #3498 on:** October 22, 2018, 06:55:53 PM »

It's funny how I'm the poster child for bad behavior.

It's always "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" though...

Everyone thinks they're the only sane one ...

EU · « **Reply #3499 on:** October 22, 2018, 07:00:23 PM »

Here are several questions that I'd like answers to:

1) Where are the pictures? There had to be pictures taken in Reno of what was found and how it was displayed upon discovery as well as Tena Bar.

2) Where are the missing files? I would expect to have found files that are not there. For example, a 302 or memo regarding Linn Emrich from late November 1971. There are others too I'd expect to find but cannot.

3) Where are the two hair samples collected from 305? Presumably these would be outstanding sources of DNA.

4) Why are the FOIA FBI files only going to include files through May of 1992? Needless to say there are myriad files pertaining to a lot of stuff in the last 26 years.

5) What happened to Larry Carr and why? He just suddenly dropped off the face of the earth...of course he did have a brief cameo in the 2016 History Channel doc.

6) What was the last piece of evidence that the FBI received in 2010 that took until early 2016 to get back from Quantico that ultimately served as the final item that led to the case being administratively closed? Ayn Dietrich-Williams mentioned this in her interview with a London newspaper.

7) Why exactly was the case administratively closed? It seems likely triggered by the US Attorney in Seattle. Why?

georger · « **Reply #3500 on:** October 22, 2018, 11:30:32 PM »

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Fly, explain no presents of paper bands were never found between the bills?
according to Tom Kaye, city dumps have issues with thin newspaper degrading...

IMO, the bills would of protected the bands from weather a lot longer..not the sides or exposed area's...

Tom states:
Definitely not as long as bills but the ones between the bills would have still been there. They have a problem with newsprint never degrading in dumps etc.

Tk

So, anybody guess what washing bills in liquid dish detergent would do to trace "evidence"?

Georger.. from DZ

"I do know this, however: Brian Ingram told me that all bill
bundles were taken to his home and his parents seperated the
bills using liquid dish detergent. These bills were seperated at the
Ingram home before they were deleivered to the Portland FO."

nobody said they waSHED ALL THE BILLS IN DETERGENT!

KEEP INVENTING STUFF FOR YOUR SCI FI NOVEL.

Your own statement contradicts your own argument..

Is it bigger than a breadbox but smaller than a submarine.

Do you know BREADBOX? Do you know SUBMARINE?

snowmman · « **Reply #3501 on:** October 23, 2018, 12:01:45 AM »

here's another picture from back in the day, aerial during the 1st day FBI search

in time, this is before the newspaper photo I posted, because you can see only some sand is search-disturbed, but the search demarking lines are there.

If you assume there should be disturbed sand around where the money was found, then it seems like the point Tom Kaye identified as the money find site, is up too far from where they are searching.

you can see they are only halfway done on the marks towards the top of the photo (this is looking downstream)
but there is a small area disturbed in the center of the picture, like in the newspaper photo.

added the newspaper photo again for easy comparison.

snowmman · « **Reply #3502 on:** October 23, 2018, 12:10:50 AM »

Ckret provided the photos from prior years of Tena Bar (aerials) that were done for I forget what reason.
In any case, circles are on the photos, presumably from FBI agents

Tom Kaye is basically saying the circles were wrong. I find that hard to believe, that the FBI agents investigating Tena Bar with these old photos, somehow located the wrong position for the money find

These are a montage from the large photos Ckret released. I had snipped and rotated them back then so you can see the same area in the different years
1970-1974-1979

Tom's theory about the money not being from dredge spoils depends on him saying he located the money find area better than these FBI agents.

It seems to me the photo evidence doesn't agree that Tom is more correct on location.

snowmman · « **Reply #3503 on:** October 23, 2018, 12:34:10 AM »

I think it's logical that the money find was at the center of the vertical search marks
approx 6-8 upstream marks, 6-8 downstream marks
that little disturbed area in the center of the picture is probably the money find area

I think the diagonalling road aligns to the 70/74/80 photos. I'm really wondering if the circles are correct (by the FBI agents)

Tom's work in deciding whether the money was found was never reviewed, that I know of, in a public way.
The Citizen Sleuth masturbation team just anointed themselves and said that whatever they pronounced was accurate and used secret knowledge from the FBI, that the unwashed masses couldn't get access to...i.e. that secrecy meant accuracy.

snowmman · « **Reply #3504 on:** October 23, 2018, 12:44:19 AM »

If you look in the '74 picture from the montage, there are two dredge spoil locations that push out in round areas into the columbia, with the money find circle being at the top edge of the top one.

Once you say there may have been multiple sites for the dredge spoils (My memory is that actual suction dredge pipes were floating all the way to land there back then? not a barge dump?) ...once there are more than one site, then there could be more confusion about nearness of the money to the dredge site.

Still, I think that diagonalling road has some visibility in all the pics I posted.

My memory may be off, but I think in more modern times, the sand piles visible at the Fazio's weren't the result of dredge pipes straight to shore. So the detail of how dredge spoils got there is important. I think it was pipes to shore, if I remember correctly.

EU · « **Reply #3505 on:** October 23, 2018, 02:33:50 AM »

The money find spots are noted as follows. Behind the tree located behind the pale yellow circle. And, where the white X is located on the other photo.

Shutter · « **Reply #3506 on:** October 23, 2018, 06:18:24 AM »

Tom Kaye has the location further south which was wrong. I would often go back and forth about this with R99. it's pretty much underwater most of the time now. Tom's location puts it south of the diagonal road when it was on the other side (north). R99 would often say just behind the containment pond which again is too far south...

The sand/slurry was piped directly on to the beach. the first photo is on T-bar in 1984 and the second pic is in 1974 at Hayden Island

FLYJACK · « **Reply #3507 on:** October 23, 2018, 10:07:55 AM »

Interview with the guy who created the sled test.. weight 275-300 lbs.. that is way too heavy. Could be up to 80 lbs too heavy..

between 275 and 300 pounds, with all the extra stuff."

snowmman · « **Reply #3508 on:** October 23, 2018, 10:40:12 AM »

thanks for marking those photos, Shutter. That seems to make sense.

snowmman · « **Reply #3509 on:** October 23, 2018, 10:54:36 AM »

okay, if the consensus is that the money was found just slightly upstream of the dredge spoils site, but close to a water line of some time for the Columbia...then that doesn't seem to rule out dredge caused behavior

Tom seemed to limit dredge behavior to dredge plus bulldozer...no effect from upstream water flow.

Given the money find location, it seems water plus dredge plus bulldozer is the right thing to think about.

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Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case (Read 1562052 times)

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

georger

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

FLYJACK

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

snowmman

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EU

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georger

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snowmman

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snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

snowmman

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snowmman

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EU

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Shutter

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FLYJACK

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snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case

snowmman

Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case