Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1674654 times)

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3345 on: October 20, 2018, 02:19:17 PM »
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That theory about disappearing currency straps in a rubber banded bundle should have been what Kaye tested when he put rubber bands under sand/water for a year.

It's an interesting question: can you lose all trace of currency straps, but retain rubber band debris in a bundle of strapped bills..

don't know.

I believe so, but it would depend on how long the money was in that wet environment.

Different papers have different rates, the thinner and wetter the faster.. estimates range from 2 - 5 months. Many different processes breakdown the cellulosic fibres.

What is a "cellulosic fibre" ?    Is that like a "metalosic" spoon ?  Or a "Cheetolosic" cracker?

It just gets more sublime and crazier/artificial every day!  A " cellulosic " tree ?   :rofl:

You really need to get out of the Shire a little more..

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3346 on: October 20, 2018, 02:24:24 PM »
Quote
BS.. paper straps would be long gone

before calling "BS" you must provide scientific proof..

How long will it take to remove any chemical signature?
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3347 on: October 20, 2018, 02:39:27 PM »
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Quote
BS.. paper straps would be long gone

before calling "BS" you must provide scientific proof..

How long will it take to remove any chemical signature?

Provide proof that..

A) some trace would still exist to be found
and
B) all bills were examined

There is no evidence or logic to support..

The inferred claim is that no trace was found and there must have been an observable trace therefore no paper bands were used. That is pure BS. Bad science, bad logic, pure BS.

You don't discount a theory based on speculation.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 02:40:42 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3348 on: October 20, 2018, 02:42:27 PM »
did you read all the evidence supporting what the FBI did with the money? I doubt any of us have this knowledge..to say what they did or didn't do is pure speculation when we don't have all the facts..lots of things can appear to make someone guilty until all the facts are put on the table..

sadly, we don't have all the facts..we have bits and pieces and that makes it extremely hard to base anything on fact..
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3349 on: October 20, 2018, 02:43:49 PM »
nobody can determine how long the money was on the beach let alone what type of bands were around them..witness testimony means nothing apparently...just memo's...
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3350 on: October 20, 2018, 02:56:14 PM »
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did you read all the evidence supporting what the FBI did with the money? I doubt any of us have this knowledge..to say what they did or didn't do is pure speculation when we don't have all the facts..lots of things can appear to make someone guilty until all the facts are put on the table..

sadly, we don't have all the facts..we have bits and pieces and that makes it extremely hard to base anything on fact..

Sure, that is the nature of this nearly 50 year old case..  we really don't have "proof" of much at all. The best we can do is "theoretical" based on our interpretations and application of logic and reason. Most arguments here are based on those subjective interpretations. 

Think about it, the FBI has failed to solve this case with all the resources and info they have and we don't.

How do we expect to solve this unless we explore new ideas and theories.. they may or may not pan out but even if they fail it is still valuable. Using assumptions to reject a theory is not only unproductive it is irrational.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 03:15:31 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3351 on: October 20, 2018, 02:59:58 PM »
exploring is one thing...trying to tell others this is it is another thing...

got to run now....
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3352 on: October 20, 2018, 07:14:35 PM »
I'm afraid I'm missing something regarding this entire debate. More to the point, what the hell does this have to do with the price of tea in China? How does paper-bands versus no-paper-bands get you any closer to determining Cooper's identity? Is this really going to help settle whether the money washed up on shore and buried itself? Or, if Cooper survived or died? It seems to me you're getting caught up in the weeds.

The reality is that there is ample evidence to argue those points outside of whether there were paper bands or not.

Put another way:

1) If you believe the FBI flight path and jump zone are accurate, human intervention was involved with the Tena Bar money.

2) If you believe the money washed up on Tena Bar and self buried itself you are asking for a lot of circumstances to fall into place perfectly otherwise this becomes impossible.

3) If you believe in the dredge theory a lot of explaining has to accompany that too considering Tom Kaye's fine work regarding Tena Bar.

In my diseased mind, the fact that there was no body found, no parachute found, no attache case found, no bank bag found, no shroud lines found, not a single $20 bill found blowing in the wind, no missing persons reports, and three packets (the Ingram's description of what they discovered) of cash buried with degraded rubber bands still intact, suggests to me that Cooper survived and buried those three packets for some reason.

With this in mind, suspects may be vetted irrespective of paper bands.
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3353 on: October 20, 2018, 07:20:10 PM »
Looking for Bill Grinnell

At Shutter's urging, I have called Bill Grinnell a couple of times and today visited his house, all to no avail. Bill is supposedly the guy who gathered the ransom money at SeaFirst back in Seattle, and would know if there were paper bands or rubber bands, or both, around the money.

But so far, he's been unresponsive to my inquiries.
 
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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3354 on: October 20, 2018, 07:26:24 PM »
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Looking for Bill Grinnell

At Shutter's urging, I have called Bill Grinnell a couple of times and today visited his house, all to no avail. Bill is supposedly the guy who gathered the ransom money at SeaFirst back in Seattle, and would know if there were paper bands or rubber bands, or both, around the money.

But so far, he's been unresponsive to my inquiries.

It is so much more than paper vs rubber bands, were they all in packets of 100's and in order of first micro, were the packets bundled into groups? what was random sized? the bundles (of packets?).. 

Who noted the start/stop of the remaining 15 packets of 100 and who made the second emergency ransom fund with those 15 packets and ran it through the micro.. and why did the range change when sent to FBI.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3355 on: October 20, 2018, 07:29:24 PM »
In any case all angles need to be covered..there is no weeds about it...the same can be said for age old suspects..

Understanding how the money got there is key...although the flight path could be spot on, it's the jump point that goes from above Ariel all the way to the Columbia..leaving any parts of a case dormant is never a good thing..lots of cold cases have been solved by overlooking key parts of a case..nothing is simple in this case or it would of been solved decades ago...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3356 on: October 20, 2018, 07:34:56 PM »
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Looking for Bill Grinnell

At Shutter's urging, I have called Bill Grinnell a couple of times and today visited his house, all to no avail. Bill is supposedly the guy who gathered the ransom money at SeaFirst back in Seattle, and would know if there were paper bands or rubber bands, or both, around the money.

But so far, he's been unresponsive to my inquiries.

Thanks Bruce..was there any sign he could of been home?
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3357 on: October 20, 2018, 07:46:07 PM »
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In any case all angles need to be covered..there is no weeds about it...the same can be said for age old suspects..

Understanding how the money got there is key...although the flight path could be spot on, it's the jump point that goes from above Ariel all the way to the Columbia..leaving any parts of a case dormant is never a good thing..lots of cold cases have been solved by overlooking key parts of a case..nothing is simple in this case or it would of been solved decades ago...

I simply disagree. Furthermore, at some point suspects have to be vetted. There is virtually none of that in Cooper world. Rather it's debating the same small insignificant points ad infinitum.

I believe this case is pretty straight forward. There are plenty of pieces of evidence that point quite clearly in a certain direction if one is willing to read them. Moreover, I believe that the "real" DB Cooper is not a person unfamiliar with the FBI. I'm quite confident that this man was one of the nearly 1500 suspects. This was my opinion before I had a suspect in mind.

Focusing on certain details is fine and necessary. On the other hand, others are counter-productive if no one can get past them.

My suggestion: Focus on the suspects that the FBI has reviewed and vet these men with the evidence in hand.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3358 on: October 20, 2018, 08:00:25 PM »
the other side of the coin puts suspects who have been in the cross hairs of the FBI and went through DNA, fingerprinting , background checks, and more we don't know about...can also become "counter productive" things not surrounding a suspect gets pushed away or ignored..tunnel vision takes over.

800 pages are in the FBI files about Weber, but as usual, it doesn't stop that person from believing..Blevins ignores the description based on what he reads about other crimes that have zero connection to this case. Marla Cooper was another one.

I seriously doubt Cooper is on any known radar with the FBI or anyone else IMHO. I just don't believe anyone is any closer than what has been done since 1971..the tie found on the plane seems to be the winner to date when it comes to new evidence brought to the table..it still hasn't been established he survived?

 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3359 on: October 20, 2018, 08:12:19 PM »
Suspects are much harder in this case than a typical murder..most are family oriented or friends etc. this case leaves hundreds of thousands of possible suspects..the suspect pool is HUGE IMO, getting to the bottom of the case is priority over finding a suspect..I'm not implying they should be dismissed, but we don't even have a full grip on the case itself. nobody has a clue how the money got on the beach years later...some claim the flight path is off..we know they really struggled with a jump point. lots of area's were unsearchable...did he survive, sure he could of, but he could of died as well. nobody knows for certain about a lot of things in this case.

Perhaps we should reconstruct the whole evening from start to stop..