Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

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Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1575064 times)

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3105 on: September 05, 2018, 07:21:47 PM »
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The crew had nothing to do with Cooper's demands other than convincing him that the stairs can not be extended or partially extended for takeoff...

yes, that doc is consistent with the pilot transcript..

Cooper originally asked for Airstairs to be lowered in flight by Tina.. not on take off. (it is right in that doc)

Pilots initiated idea of lowering Airstairs on take off (transcript) to get Tina off plane. Cooper agreed then the pilots were informed that they couldn't take off with airstairs fully extended and went back to Cooper to renegotiate partial. That was not doable from cockpit so Tina stayed and showed him how to lower them..

It looks like Cooper did not initiate the airstairs down on take off idea.. it came from the pilots
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 07:24:48 PM by FLYJACK »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3106 on: September 05, 2018, 07:40:16 PM »
Fly, I haven't looked at what you attached yet, but Tina was called to the back while in flight to help him with the stairs because he was having issues with them....let me see what you have attached..
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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3107 on: September 05, 2018, 08:17:04 PM »
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Fly, I haven't looked at what you attached yet, but Tina was called to the back while in flight to help him with the stairs because he was having issues with them....let me see what you have attached..

Your doc and the transcript I posted in isolation seem to conflict but blend them together, my explanation pulls them both into alignment.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3108 on: September 05, 2018, 10:47:14 PM »
not to get off the subject but where did the document about different bands come from...?
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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3109 on: September 05, 2018, 11:25:05 PM »
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not to get off the subject but where did the document about different bands come from...?


ok, found it, there are so many of these docs it is hard to keep track..

FBI vault part 12 (of 29) 3rd page - click on file link to open/download

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« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 11:27:44 PM by FLYJACK »
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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3110 on: September 08, 2018, 09:55:42 AM »
Let me try to clarify the significance of the "bands"..

If they were paper bands that strongly supports the 3 TBAR packets being part of a single rubber banded bundle..

However, paper bank bands are not needed to reach that conclusion.


Logic..

The Bank claimed they randomized and re-banded the bundles to make the money look hastily prepared.

TBAR packets were in 100 bills x $20 = $2000. They were not randomized.

If the packets were not randomized then the Bank MUST HAVE randomized the bundles (groups of packets)

and if the bundles (groups of packets) were randomized then they were also re-banded with rubber bands..


Conclusion, the 3 TBAR packets were part of a single rubber banded bundle.


That lifts the restriction based on packet proximity for how the money could have arrived..


The TBAR money still could have but not necessarily arrived in a container or by personal means.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 10:00:30 AM by FLYJACK »
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Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3111 on: September 08, 2018, 10:19:50 AM »
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Let me try to clarify the significance of the "bands"..

If they were paper bands that strongly supports the 3 TBAR packets being part of a single rubber banded bundle..

However, paper bank bands are not needed to reach that conclusion.


Logic..

The Bank claimed they randomized and re-banded the bundles to make the money look hastily prepared.

TBAR packets were in 100 bills x $20 = $2000. They were not randomized.

If the packets were not randomized then the Bank MUST HAVE randomized the bundles (groups of packets)

and if the bundles (groups of packets) were randomized then they were also re-banded with rubber bands..


Conclusion, the 3 TBAR packets were part of a single rubber banded bundle.


That lifts the restriction based on packet proximity for how the money could have arrived..


The TBAR money still could have but not necessarily arrived in a container or by personal means.

Your theory requires four elements:

1) Paper bands to have completely dissolved.

2) The outer rubber bands to have completely dissolved while the several bands binding the three individual packets to remain intact.

3) No one to have noticed or commented definitively on either these paper bands or the packets being bound in bundles.

4) Everyone to have been wrong about their assertions that the money found on Tena Bar originated as three separate packets.
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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3112 on: September 08, 2018, 11:35:25 AM »
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Let me try to clarify the significance of the "bands"..

If they were paper bands that strongly supports the 3 TBAR packets being part of a single rubber banded bundle..

However, paper bank bands are not needed to reach that conclusion.


Logic..

The Bank claimed they randomized and re-banded the bundles to make the money look hastily prepared.

TBAR packets were in 100 bills x $20 = $2000. They were not randomized.

If the packets were not randomized then the Bank MUST HAVE randomized the bundles (groups of packets)

and if the bundles (groups of packets) were randomized then they were also re-banded with rubber bands..


Conclusion, the 3 TBAR packets were part of a single rubber banded bundle.


That lifts the restriction based on packet proximity for how the money could have arrived..


The TBAR money still could have but not necessarily arrived in a container or by personal means.

Your theory requires four elements:

1) Paper bands to have completely dissolved.

2) The outer rubber bands to have completely dissolved while the several bands binding the three individual packets to remain intact.

3) No one to have noticed or commented definitively on either these paper bands or the packets being bound in bundles.

4) Everyone to have been wrong about their assertions that the money found on Tena Bar originated as three separate packets.

You missed my point completely, paper bands are not necessary to reach the conclusion.. that is what I tried to clarify.

1 - paper bands not necessary, but they would have completely dissolved 2-4 months

2 - nope, there is no evidence for the actual location of the rubber band fragments - they existed but where?

3 - they did, both Tina and SeaFirst bank statement in FBI doc support bank bands

4 - YES, everyone is wrong based on assumptions and a conflation of terminology, there is no evidence to support 3 independent packets vs one initial banded bundle.


But, you don't need to accept paper bands to reach the one banded bundle conclusion.. it supports it but isn't necessary.


If the 3 TBAR packets were not randomized they must have been part/all of one (randomized) bundle.


.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 11:41:25 AM by FLYJACK »
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Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3113 on: September 08, 2018, 12:21:43 PM »
I also question the veracity of the randomized package sizes. As I noted earlier, it makes no sense and accomplishes nothing. Moreover, a one-off statement about the packages being of random size is questionable. As is a one-off comment about a radio. Neither of these things are corroborated anywhere.

I have read plenty of things in the files that are just flat out wrong and contradicted in other parts of the files. That is not to suggest anything nefarious. Rather, it recognizes that details get changed as things are relayed and conveyed.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3114 on: September 08, 2018, 12:37:30 PM »
It can be rather simple to come to a false conclusion sometimes reading these documents...according to this one I am posting I need to start saying the crew physically witnessed Cooper in the back of the plane at 8:05 and not on the interphone..
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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3115 on: September 08, 2018, 12:39:01 PM »
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I also question the veracity of the randomized package sizes. As I noted earlier, it makes no sense and accomplishes nothing. Moreover, a one-off statement about the packages being of random size is questionable. As is a one-off comment about a radio. Neither of these things are corroborated anywhere.

I have read plenty of things in the files that are just flat out wrong and contradicted in other parts of the files. That is not to suggest anything nefarious. Rather, it recognizes that details get changed as things are relayed and conveyed.

Not a one off statement.

The randomized "bundles" to make the ransom look hastily prepared,, has never been in dispute, it has been corroborated from several sources over a long period of time.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 12:53:49 PM by FLYJACK »
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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3116 on: September 08, 2018, 12:47:19 PM »
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It can be rather simple to come to a false conclusion sometimes reading these documents...according to this one I am posting I need to start saying the crew physically witnessed Cooper in the back of the plane at 8:05 and not on the interphone..

"seen" also means perceive, doesn't have to be visual..

but there are some apparent contradictions in the FBI summaries..
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3117 on: September 08, 2018, 01:02:54 PM »
I don't believe that...no mention of the interphone and in the same file they claim Tina was sent back to the cockpit just before his last contact at 8:05...

Tom Kaye told me he believes there were 3 sets of 302's and each were slightly different from each other..a Cowlitz county sheriff stated the plane was at 7,000 feet and the bomb had red tape on the sticks...the plane was at 7,000 but this was very early in the flight...people in Ariel exploded with stories from these accounts...that's why it's important to get all the facts before claiming them as facts..the sheriff could of made the notes after some conference with the FBI or read into things completely wrong while writing the notes..
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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3118 on: September 08, 2018, 01:18:37 PM »
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I don't believe that...no mention of the interphone and in the same file they claim Tina was sent back to the cockpit just before his last contact at 8:05...

Tom Kaye told me he believes there were 3 sets of 302's and each were slightly different from each other..a Cowlitz county sheriff stated the plane was at 7,000 feet and the bomb had red tape on the sticks...the plane was at 7,000 but this was very early in the flight...people in Ariel exploded with stories from these accounts...that's why it's important to get all the facts before claiming them as facts..the sheriff could of made the notes after some conference with the FBI or read into things completely wrong while writing the notes..

302's are the summaries of interviews... it would be surprising if they didn't conflict.

It would be nice to have all the docs,, notice the Gray docs are missing pages..

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Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3119 on: September 08, 2018, 01:32:06 PM »
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I also question the veracity of the randomized package sizes. As I noted earlier, it makes no sense and accomplishes nothing. Moreover, a one-off statement about the packages being of random size is questionable. As is a one-off comment about a radio. Neither of these things are corroborated anywhere.

I have read plenty of things in the files that are just flat out wrong and contradicted in other parts of the files. That is not to suggest anything nefarious. Rather, it recognizes that details get changed as things are relayed and conveyed.

Not a one off statement.

The randomized "bundles" to make the ransom look hastily prepared,, has never been in dispute, it has been corroborated from several sources over a long period of time.

This info originated from someone. How is it that several sources have corroborated this and not simply repeated what they heard or read from the single source?
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