Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1819924 times)

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #285 on: October 26, 2014, 02:50:34 AM »
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Mitchell says: 'In 1971 I was 6'2" and probably weighed 195 lbs. and in pretty good shape.' Mitchell was a young vigorous male/college student. Mitchell says after learning what was really going on with Cooper he thought: 'I could have overpowered him'. Key word is "overpowered" him. That puts Cooper as slighter in build, or maybe less physically dominant in presence and demeanor in Mitchell's assessment, especially if Mitchell and Cooper were similar in height. That's an interesting judgment if Mitchell wasn't just boasting as an after-thought?

..... What made Mitchell think he could have "overpowered" the hijacker ?

The following is out of Mitchell's intervue by the museum:

"I told the FBI, you know if I was walking down the aisle and I knew he didn’t…I knew what was going on, and he didn’t have his hand in there, I was way bigger than him and I could’ve, you know, I could’ve grabbed him and jerked him out of his seat. But I never would have done that. You know, I kept saying that to them. So…he was slight,..."

Also, standing over someone is stronger than sitting below someone.

He was "slight," yet his face was portrayed as too thin in the sketch?  Maybe "slight" means small rather than thin?

For information and review,  I attached Bill Mitchell's WSHM interview.

That's for posting.  One key word that I hadn't really thought about before was Mitchell calling DB Cooper "geeky".  That's interesting.   Have any of the named suspects previously mentioned by described that way?  I don't really think so.   I take that to mean slight build and a bit nerdy, but it's possible Mitchell was thinking of something else.

He also states something wrong with his clothing not matching or something like that. this could be proof of him purchasing clothing from a second hand store? I'm not sure how we can go from brown, to black, to Russet? perhaps nothing Cooper was wearing had anything to do with him personally.

I wonder what the tie clip was going for in the 70's? that's something I didn't check. I think I'll email the lady from Anson and see if she could answer this question.

His dress allowed him to fit in like a common businessman, going home for the holiday. His reclusive non interacting demeanor had a few people wondering. Today alarm bells would go off!

Once on the plane and in his seat, the massive amount of attention being given him by a stewardess sent off an alarm bell in Mitchell, right across from him. Mitchell couldnt see any justifiable reason for all the attention being given one passenger - in the back of the plane. Mitchell knew something was going on ... he just couldn't identify the reason for all the attention being given one passenger which over time became a real issue for Mitchell.  Mitchell didn't do anything but he sure was wondering ...
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 03:02:25 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #286 on: October 26, 2014, 03:11:50 AM »
but how do we have color differences. could someone be color blind? brown and russet maybe, but black and russet?

These colors may not match the colors Cooper had, or allegedly had. monitors are different on computers, and different colors of Brown & russet can be found.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 03:24:17 AM by shutter »
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #287 on: October 26, 2014, 03:40:41 AM »
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but how do we have color differences. could someone be color blind? brown and russet maybe, but black and russet?

These colors may not match the colors Cooper had, or allegedly had. monitors are different on computers, and different colors of Brown & russet can be found.

Pilot notes re- Tina's statement is: "He’s got black hair.   Wearing black rain coat. He is in his 50’s.  Black suit. Around 175 lbs  6’ 1".   Sitting row 18 in the middle seat very back of the aircraft!"
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #288 on: October 26, 2014, 03:49:53 AM »
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but how do we have color differences. could someone be color blind? brown and russet maybe, but black and russet?

These colors may not match the colors Cooper had, or allegedly had. monitors are different on computers, and different colors of Brown & russet can be found.

Pilot notes re- Tina's statement is: "He’s got black hair.   Wearing black rain coat. He is in his 50’s.  Black suit. Around 175 lbs  6’ 1".   Sitting row 18 in the middle seat very back of the aircraft!"

Agreed, but they also said he was in his 50's in those notes. flo gives the description of a black suit, and Mitchell gives the Russet color. just pointing out what other witnesses have claimed. Tina spent more time with him than anyone else. I would rely on her description first, but we do have different views from all 3 of them.

I have there statements in the gallery under evidence. it's the first photo on the page for quick reference.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 03:51:58 AM by shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #289 on: October 26, 2014, 04:02:38 AM »


The notes about his description seem to be towards the beginning. could this be Flo's response. she had the first contact with him? she claims everything black while Tina states a brown suit with possibly thin black stripes. this also seems to be right after Flo describes the note given to her. perhaps they asked her at that point about his description? Tina gives the height from 5'10 - 6'. I believe she makes this claim since she sized him up while standing next to him. outside of the notes Flo gives 6' which is close to the crew notes of 6' 1"

The weight is consistent with Flo of 175 lbs matching her statement of 170-175 lbs. the notes state a black raincoat, and later one says, top coat, the other says overcoat.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 04:22:46 AM by shutter »
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #290 on: October 26, 2014, 12:06:47 PM »
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Mitchell says: 'In 1971 I was 6'2" and probably weighed 195 lbs. and in pretty good shape.' Mitchell was a young vigorous male/college student. Mitchell says after learning what was really going on with Cooper he thought: 'I could have overpowered him'. Key word is "overpowered" him. That puts Cooper as slighter in build, or maybe less physically dominant in presence and demeanor in Mitchell's assessment, especially if Mitchell and Cooper were similar in height. That's an interesting judgment if Mitchell wasn't just boasting as an after-thought?

..... What made Mitchell think he could have "overpowered" the hijacker ?

The following is out of Mitchell's intervue by the museum:

"I told the FBI, you know if I was walking down the aisle and I knew he didn’t…I knew what was going on, and he didn’t have his hand in there, I was way bigger than him and I could’ve, you know, I could’ve grabbed him and jerked him out of his seat. But I never would have done that. You know, I kept saying that to them. So…he was slight,..."

Also, standing over someone is stronger than sitting below someone.

He was "slight," yet his face was portrayed as too thin in the sketch?  Maybe "slight" means small rather than thin?

For information and review,  I attached Bill Mitchell's WSHM interview.

That's for posting.  One key word that I hadn't really thought about before was Mitchell calling DB Cooper "geeky".  That's interesting.   Have any of the named suspects previously mentioned by described that way?  I don't really think so.   I take that to mean slight build and a bit nerdy, but it's possible Mitchell was thinking of something else.

He also states something wrong with his clothing not matching or something like that. this could be proof of him purchasing clothing from a second hand store? I'm not sure how we can go from brown, to black, to Russet? perhaps nothing Cooper was wearing had anything to do with him personally.

I wonder what the tie clip was going for in the 70's? that's something I didn't check. I think I'll email the lady from Anson and see if she could answer this question.

His dress allowed him to fit in like a common businessman, going home for the holiday. His reclusive non interacting demeanor had a few people wondering. Today alarm bells would go off!

Once on the plane and in his seat, the massive amount of attention being given him by a stewardess sent off an alarm bell in Mitchell, right across from him. Mitchell couldnt see any justifiable reason for all the attention being given one passenger - in the back of the plane. Mitchell knew something was going on ... he just couldn't identify the reason for all the attention being given one passenger which over time became a real issue for Mitchell.  Mitchell didn't do anything but he sure was wondering ...

In addition to Tina's statements of "all black" we have Hal Williams, the ticket agent at the gate, giving the same information.

Hal Williams also backs up Bill Mitchell's recollection of Cooper and also finds discrepancies in the FBI's sketch. From the attached article: "The composite drawings never did look just like him. The chin was a bit thin and the hair was not quite right"
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #291 on: October 26, 2014, 02:42:38 PM »
are we sure Tina made the statement of all black? look at my post above, and then read the notes, and then ending with the descriptions Tina & Flo gave. there descriptions can be found in the gallery under "evidence" the first photo.

Is the descriptions from Alice anywhere to be found?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 03:39:03 PM by shutter »
 

Offline hom

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #292 on: October 26, 2014, 03:35:16 PM »
Lighting in a plane isn't like being out in the sun.  AND, it was a dark day.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #293 on: October 26, 2014, 03:40:27 PM »
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Lighting in a plane isn't like being out in the sun.  AND, it was a dark day.

Agreed, I'm just trying to figure out how Mitchell claims Russet. that's hard to match up against black....
 

Offline hom

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #294 on: October 26, 2014, 04:12:39 PM »
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Agreed, I'm just trying to figure out how Mitchell claims Russet. that's hard to match up against black....

Per wikipedia:  "Russet is a dark brown color with a reddish-orange tinge." (emphasis added)  Your image doesn't look dark to me.  I've attached a color matching the RGB specified in wikipedia.  Try looking at the color in dim light.

Also, I recall having seen long ago materials that shimmered black and red and black and blue.  Maybe something like that?  I don't remember when that was common.



« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 04:14:35 PM by hom »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #295 on: October 26, 2014, 04:23:43 PM »
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Agreed, I'm just trying to figure out how Mitchell claims Russet. that's hard to match up against black....

Per wikipedia:  "Russet is a dark brown color with a reddish-orange tinge." (emphasis added)  Your image doesn't look dark to me.  I've attached a color matching the RGB specified in wikipedia.  Try looking at the color in dim light.

Also, I recall having seen long ago materials that shimmered black and red and black and blue.  Maybe something like that?  I don't remember when that was common.

Russet still has a problem with black, but then again.black and brown seems to blend here as well. one said black, the other said brown w/black stripes. I don't believe the color really matters, but it appears to have different views with all 3 of the witnesses on what the exact color truly was?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #296 on: October 26, 2014, 04:38:03 PM »
That could be Russet Brown you have?
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #297 on: October 26, 2014, 04:42:53 PM »
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Lighting in a plane isn't like being out in the sun.  AND, it was a dark day.

Agreed, I'm just trying to figure out how Mitchell claims Russet. that's hard to match up against black....

Russet was a description from the paint store owner, Robert Gregory.

From the Citizen Sleuths website: Gregory also characterized Cooper's hair as "Jet black, greasy, patent leather sheen. Combed straight back with a slight angle to the right and a slight part to the left." According to the 302's in the FBI Archive, Gregory remarked on Cooper's clothing as "Unusual colored suit coat, possibly a reddish brown or russet color; wide lapels. Shirt - neutral color. Tie - contrasting, medium to dark color."

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You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #298 on: October 26, 2014, 04:55:02 PM »
Ok, I must of been thinking of Mitchell said it since we started the conversation with him. thanks for clearing that up.

 

Offline hom

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #299 on: October 26, 2014, 05:30:43 PM »
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Russet still has a problem with black, but then again.black and brown seems to blend here as well. one said black, the other said brown w/black stripes. I don't believe the color really matters, but it appears to have different views with all 3 of the witnesses on what the exact color truly was?

Perception and identification of color depends upon light level and character.  There is no way of evaluating color accounts of witnesses on the plane without duplicating the lighting in the plane.  Don't go by what the colors look like in your own environment.