Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1834551 times)

MeyerLouie

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2160 on: June 10, 2017, 04:14:27 PM »
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One thing about this case seems somewhat clear. We can eliminate the vision that Cooper died in the deep woods around Ariel and nothing of him or his remains have been found ! There's NO way that some of his loot could have ended up at Tina Bar unless of course some hunter or searcher found him and threw some $$ into the Columbia river for whatever reason. This seems remote,so I'm concluding that the original search area had to be wrong. Am I missing something ?

Or unless he survived in the original lz and walked south then met the boys with the smelly cloths who relieved him of his cash and his life ... near the Columbia ... near Salmon Creek (in one of those hobo camps). Tom may have this right. Based on the lack of hard evidence at hand I still think it's too early to tell, and I hate having to take that position.

My point mainly was that Cooper's body doesn't lay somewhere in the woods around Ariel. Yes I actually believe Coop could have very easily survived the jump and walked out undetected. As a matter of fact just yesterday I was visiting the Hobo camp that still exists today. I don't think Cooper was a easy mark however.

Kermit, you gotta show me that hobo camp, gotta see it.  Meyer
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2161 on: June 10, 2017, 04:26:43 PM »
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One thing about this case seems somewhat clear. We can eliminate the vision that Cooper died in the deep woods around Ariel and nothing of him or his remains have been found ! There's NO way that some of his loot could have ended up at Tina Bar unless of course some hunter or searcher found him and threw some $$ into the Columbia river for whatever reason. This seems remote,so I'm concluding that the original search area had to be wrong. Am I missing something ?

Or unless he survived in the original lz and walked south then met the boys with the smelly cloths who relieved him of his cash and his life ... near the Columbia ... near Salmon Creek (in one of those hobo camps). Tom may have this right. Based on the lack of hard evidence at hand I still think it's too early to tell, and I hate having to take that position.

My point mainly was that Cooper's body doesn't lay somewhere in the woods around Ariel. Yes I actually believe Coop could have very easily survived the jump and walked out undetected. As a matter of fact just yesterday I was visiting the Hobo camp that still exists today. I don't think Cooper was a easy mark however.

Kermit, you gotta show me that hobo camp, gotta see it.  Meyer

It's just on the Oregon foot of the railroad bridge. It has a 5 ft fence protecting it and a security car standing by 24/7. Interesting for Sure!
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2162 on: June 10, 2017, 04:28:04 PM »
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One thing about this case seems somewhat clear. We can eliminate the vision that Cooper died in the deep woods around Ariel and nothing of him or his remains have been found ! There's NO way that some of his loot could have ended up at Tina Bar unless of course some hunter or searcher found him and threw some $$ into the Columbia river for whatever reason. This seems remote,so I'm concluding that the original search area had to be wrong. Am I missing something ?

Or unless he survived in the original lz and walked south then met the boys with the smelly cloths who relieved him of his cash and his life ... near the Columbia ... near Salmon Creek (in one of those hobo camps). Tom may have this right. Based on the lack of hard evidence at hand I still think it's too early to tell, and I hate having to take that position.

My point mainly was that Cooper's body doesn't lay somewhere in the woods around Ariel. Yes I actually believe Coop could have very easily survived the jump and walked out undetected. As a matter of fact just yesterday I was visiting the Hobo camp that still exists today. I don't think Cooper was a easy mark however.

Kermit, you gotta show me that hobo camp, gotta see it.  Meyer

Me too! My cousins are convinced Cooper survived and walked south, then had an encounter with the people in these camps in 1971 ... and that they feel is the ONLY explanation for how money later surfaced at Tina Bar ... perhaps through the intervention of a dredging scenario. They feel the money has to be in the area first, before it can be at Tina Bar, or anywhere else in the Portland-Vancouver area. My cousins are also lifetime residents of Vancouver-Portland. One dealt with the hobos many times in his job in law enforcement. He relates a story about how one day he and an FBI agent at Portland went out fishing and encountered 'the boys under the bridge', and were threatened and chased. My cousin pulled his badge and produce a gun and he says that was the only thing that saved them.

So lets hear from some locals!   

I dont think Cooper would have hesitated to throw his money bag into the river if it meant the difference between him escaping and living or not. Moreover, I have yet to find one report of any of the itinerants being questioned in 1971 vs the flood of agents and LE that covered the airport and the city of Portland and its surrounds ... including Eugene!

As things stand, the money at Tina Bar has nothing to do with the flight path outside of the fact the plane did cross the Columbia somewhere  ...  with FJ saying the money bag was snagged on the stairs and left the plane miraculously at that time!   O0

<edit>  whatever means the money took to be at Tina Bar, that story must also satisfy ALL of the forensic facts the money itself tells. 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 04:58:37 PM by georger »
 
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Offline Kermit

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2163 on: June 17, 2017, 12:50:56 PM »
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One thing about this case seems somewhat clear. We can eliminate the vision that Cooper died in the deep woods around Ariel and nothing of him or his remains have been found ! There's NO way that some of his loot could have ended up at Tina Bar unless of course some hunter or searcher found him and threw some $$ into the Columbia river for whatever reason. This seems remote,so I'm concluding that the original search area had to be wrong. Am I missing something ?

Or unless he survived in the original lz and walked south then met the boys with the smelly cloths who relieved him of his cash and his life ... near the Columbia ... near Salmon Creek (in one of those hobo camps). Tom may have this right. Based on the lack of hard evidence at hand I still think it's too early to tell, and I hate having to take that position.

My point mainly was that Cooper's body doesn't lay somewhere in the woods around Ariel. Yes I actually believe Coop could have very easily survived the jump and walked out undetected. As a matter of fact just yesterday I was visiting the Hobo camp that still exists today. I don't think Cooper was a easy mark however.

Kermit, you gotta show me that hobo camp, gotta see it.  Meyer

Me too! My cousins are convinced Cooper survived and walked south, then had an encounter with the people in these camps in 1971 ... and that they feel is the ONLY explanation for how money later surfaced at Tina Bar ... perhaps through the intervention of a dredging scenario. They feel the money has to be in the area first, before it can be at Tina Bar, or anywhere else in the Portland-Vancouver area. My cousins are also lifetime residents of Vancouver-Portland. One dealt with the hobos many times in his job in law enforcement. He relates a story about how one day he and an FBI agent at Portland went out fishing and encountered 'the boys under the bridge', and were threatened and chased. My cousin pulled his badge and produce a gun and he says that was the only thing that saved them.

So lets hear from some locals!   

I dont think Cooper would have hesitated to throw his money bag into the river if it meant the difference between him escaping and living or not. Moreover, I have yet to find one report of any of the itinerants being questioned in 1971 vs the flood of agents and LE that covered the airport and the city of Portland and its surrounds ... including Eugene!

As things stand, the money at Tina Bar has nothing to do with the flight path outside of the fact the plane did cross the Columbia somewhere  ...  with FJ saying the money bag was snagged on the stairs and left the plane miraculously at that time!   O0

<edit>  whatever means the money took to be at Tina Bar, that story must also satisfy ALL of the forensic facts the money itself tells.

Interesting story regarding your cousins. Who's to say IF Cooper was carrying a gun or not ! What I find interesting is what makes it so difficult to believe that perhaps Cooper might have dropped a part of his loot while crossing this long railroad bridge verses a no pull into Tina Bar ? Do the Math ! Assuming even that Cooper had no idea where he was when he jumped, what bad luck that he would land in the Columbia river. If he survived the jump, there's a decent chance he needed to cross that bridge.
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2164 on: June 17, 2017, 09:05:23 PM »
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One thing about this case seems somewhat clear. We can eliminate the vision that Cooper died in the deep woods around Ariel and nothing of him or his remains have been found ! There's NO way that some of his loot could have ended up at Tina Bar unless of course some hunter or searcher found him and threw some $$ into the Columbia river for whatever reason. This seems remote,so I'm concluding that the original search area had to be wrong. Am I missing something ?

Or unless he survived in the original lz and walked south then met the boys with the smelly cloths who relieved him of his cash and his life ... near the Columbia ... near Salmon Creek (in one of those hobo camps). Tom may have this right. Based on the lack of hard evidence at hand I still think it's too early to tell, and I hate having to take that position.

My point mainly was that Cooper's body doesn't lay somewhere in the woods around Ariel. Yes I actually believe Coop could have very easily survived the jump and walked out undetected. As a matter of fact just yesterday I was visiting the Hobo camp that still exists today. I don't think Cooper was a easy mark however.

Kermit, you gotta show me that hobo camp, gotta see it.  Meyer

Me too! My cousins are convinced Cooper survived and walked south, then had an encounter with the people in these camps in 1971 ... and that they feel is the ONLY explanation for how money later surfaced at Tina Bar ... perhaps through the intervention of a dredging scenario. They feel the money has to be in the area first, before it can be at Tina Bar, or anywhere else in the Portland-Vancouver area. My cousins are also lifetime residents of Vancouver-Portland. One dealt with the hobos many times in his job in law enforcement. He relates a story about how one day he and an FBI agent at Portland went out fishing and encountered 'the boys under the bridge', and were threatened and chased. My cousin pulled his badge and produce a gun and he says that was the only thing that saved them.

So lets hear from some locals!   

I dont think Cooper would have hesitated to throw his money bag into the river if it meant the difference between him escaping and living or not. Moreover, I have yet to find one report of any of the itinerants being questioned in 1971 vs the flood of agents and LE that covered the airport and the city of Portland and its surrounds ... including Eugene!

As things stand, the money at Tina Bar has nothing to do with the flight path outside of the fact the plane did cross the Columbia somewhere  ...  with FJ saying the money bag was snagged on the stairs and left the plane miraculously at that time!   O0

<edit>  whatever means the money took to be at Tina Bar, that story must also satisfy ALL of the forensic facts the money itself tells.

Interesting story regarding your cousins. Who's to say IF Cooper was carrying a gun or not ! What I find interesting is what makes it so difficult to believe that perhaps Cooper might have dropped a part of his loot while crossing this long railroad bridge verses a no pull into Tina Bar ? Do the Math ! Assuming even that Cooper had no idea where he was when he jumped, what bad luck that he would land in the Columbia river. If he survived the jump, there's a decent chance he needed to cross that bridge.

Why?
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2165 on: June 17, 2017, 11:55:10 PM »
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One thing about this case seems somewhat clear. We can eliminate the vision that Cooper died in the deep woods around Ariel and nothing of him or his remains have been found ! There's NO way that some of his loot could have ended up at Tina Bar unless of course some hunter or searcher found him and threw some $$ into the Columbia river for whatever reason. This seems remote,so I'm concluding that the original search area had to be wrong. Am I missing something ?

Or unless he survived in the original lz and walked south then met the boys with the smelly cloths who relieved him of his cash and his life ... near the Columbia ... near Salmon Creek (in one of those hobo camps). Tom may have this right. Based on the lack of hard evidence at hand I still think it's too early to tell, and I hate having to take that position.

My point mainly was that Cooper's body doesn't lay somewhere in the woods around Ariel. Yes I actually believe Coop could have very easily survived the jump and walked out undetected. As a matter of fact just yesterday I was visiting the Hobo camp that still exists today. I don't think Cooper was a easy mark however.

Kermit, you gotta show me that hobo camp, gotta see it.  Meyer

Me too! My cousins are convinced Cooper survived and walked south, then had an encounter with the people in these camps in 1971 ... and that they feel is the ONLY explanation for how money later surfaced at Tina Bar ... perhaps through the intervention of a dredging scenario. They feel the money has to be in the area first, before it can be at Tina Bar, or anywhere else in the Portland-Vancouver area. My cousins are also lifetime residents of Vancouver-Portland. One dealt with the hobos many times in his job in law enforcement. He relates a story about how one day he and an FBI agent at Portland went out fishing and encountered 'the boys under the bridge', and were threatened and chased. My cousin pulled his badge and produce a gun and he says that was the only thing that saved them.

So lets hear from some locals!   

I dont think Cooper would have hesitated to throw his money bag into the river if it meant the difference between him escaping and living or not. Moreover, I have yet to find one report of any of the itinerants being questioned in 1971 vs the flood of agents and LE that covered the airport and the city of Portland and its surrounds ... including Eugene!

As things stand, the money at Tina Bar has nothing to do with the flight path outside of the fact the plane did cross the Columbia somewhere  ...  with FJ saying the money bag was snagged on the stairs and left the plane miraculously at that time!   O0

<edit>  whatever means the money took to be at Tina Bar, that story must also satisfy ALL of the forensic facts the money itself tells.

Interesting story regarding your cousins. Who's to say IF Cooper was carrying a gun or not ! What I find interesting is what makes it so difficult to believe that perhaps Cooper might have dropped a part of his loot while crossing this long railroad bridge verses a no pull into Tina Bar ? Do the Math ! Assuming even that Cooper had no idea where he was when he jumped, what bad luck that he would land in the Columbia river. If he survived the jump, there's a decent chance he needed to cross that bridge.

Why?

lets go full monte!  Cooper jumped and landed - right on the RR bridge at Vancouver! Got snagged there. Then was struck near midnight by a passing train. Wooops. They radioed in saying they thought they had hit something. They went out and found $200k and split it among themselves, then called back in saying: "Sorry. It was a deer".  :good post:   
 

Offline dice

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2166 on: June 18, 2017, 06:59:38 AM »
Quote
lets go full monte

As in former Detroit Lions coach Monte Clark ?

Purdue 38  Iowa 36
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2167 on: June 18, 2017, 12:44:27 PM »
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One thing about this case seems somewhat clear. We can eliminate the vision that Cooper died in the deep woods around Ariel and nothing of him or his remains have been found ! There's NO way that some of his loot could have ended up at Tina Bar unless of course some hunter or searcher found him and threw some $$ into the Columbia river for whatever reason. This seems remote,so I'm concluding that the original search area had to be wrong. Am I missing something ?

Or unless he survived in the original lz and walked south then met the boys with the smelly cloths who relieved him of his cash and his life ... near the Columbia ... near Salmon Creek (in one of those hobo camps). Tom may have this right. Based on the lack of hard evidence at hand I still think it's too early to tell, and I hate having to take that position.

My point mainly was that Cooper's body doesn't lay somewhere in the woods around Ariel. Yes I actually believe Coop could have very easily survived the jump and walked out undetected. As a matter of fact just yesterday I was visiting the Hobo camp that still exists today. I don't think Cooper was a easy mark however.

Kermit, you gotta show me that hobo camp, gotta see it.  Meyer

Me too! My cousins are convinced Cooper survived and walked south, then had an encounter with the people in these camps in 1971 ... and that they feel is the ONLY explanation for how money later surfaced at Tina Bar ... perhaps through the intervention of a dredging scenario. They feel the money has to be in the area first, before it can be at Tina Bar, or anywhere else in the Portland-Vancouver area. My cousins are also lifetime residents of Vancouver-Portland. One dealt with the hobos many times in his job in law enforcement. He relates a story about how one day he and an FBI agent at Portland went out fishing and encountered 'the boys under the bridge', and were threatened and chased. My cousin pulled his badge and produce a gun and he says that was the only thing that saved them.

So lets hear from some locals!   

I dont think Cooper would have hesitated to throw his money bag into the river if it meant the difference between him escaping and living or not. Moreover, I have yet to find one report of any of the itinerants being questioned in 1971 vs the flood of agents and LE that covered the airport and the city of Portland and its surrounds ... including Eugene!

As things stand, the money at Tina Bar has nothing to do with the flight path outside of the fact the plane did cross the Columbia somewhere  ...  with FJ saying the money bag was snagged on the stairs and left the plane miraculously at that time!   O0

<edit>  whatever means the money took to be at Tina Bar, that story must also satisfy ALL of the forensic facts the money itself tells.

Interesting story regarding your cousins. Who's to say IF Cooper was carrying a gun or not ! What I find interesting is what makes it so difficult to believe that perhaps Cooper might have dropped a part of his loot while crossing this long railroad bridge verses a no pull into Tina Bar ? Do the Math ! Assuming even that Cooper had no idea where he was when he jumped, what bad luck that he would land in the Columbia river. If he survived the jump, there's a decent chance he needed to cross that bridge.

Why?
Assuming you're asking why there's a decent chance he needed to cross that bridge IF he survived the jump ? His caper originated at PDX so there's a decent chance his escape vehicle might be in Portland somewhere. Only 2 bridges cross the Columbia River. I would say IF you want to go undetected, which bridge would you choose ? The I 5 bridge or the railroad bridge ? The Railroad Bridge would be a decent chose..... until a train arrives !
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2168 on: June 18, 2017, 01:27:44 PM »
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One thing about this case seems somewhat clear. We can eliminate the vision that Cooper died in the deep woods around Ariel and nothing of him or his remains have been found ! There's NO way that some of his loot could have ended up at Tina Bar unless of course some hunter or searcher found him and threw some $$ into the Columbia river for whatever reason. This seems remote,so I'm concluding that the original search area had to be wrong. Am I missing something ?

Or unless he survived in the original lz and walked south then met the boys with the smelly cloths who relieved him of his cash and his life ... near the Columbia ... near Salmon Creek (in one of those hobo camps). Tom may have this right. Based on the lack of hard evidence at hand I still think it's too early to tell, and I hate having to take that position.

My point mainly was that Cooper's body doesn't lay somewhere in the woods around Ariel. Yes I actually believe Coop could have very easily survived the jump and walked out undetected. As a matter of fact just yesterday I was visiting the Hobo camp that still exists today. I don't think Cooper was a easy mark however.

Kermit, you gotta show me that hobo camp, gotta see it.  Meyer

Me too! My cousins are convinced Cooper survived and walked south, then had an encounter with the people in these camps in 1971 ... and that they feel is the ONLY explanation for how money later surfaced at Tina Bar ... perhaps through the intervention of a dredging scenario. They feel the money has to be in the area first, before it can be at Tina Bar, or anywhere else in the Portland-Vancouver area. My cousins are also lifetime residents of Vancouver-Portland. One dealt with the hobos many times in his job in law enforcement. He relates a story about how one day he and an FBI agent at Portland went out fishing and encountered 'the boys under the bridge', and were threatened and chased. My cousin pulled his badge and produce a gun and he says that was the only thing that saved them.

So lets hear from some locals!   

I dont think Cooper would have hesitated to throw his money bag into the river if it meant the difference between him escaping and living or not. Moreover, I have yet to find one report of any of the itinerants being questioned in 1971 vs the flood of agents and LE that covered the airport and the city of Portland and its surrounds ... including Eugene!

As things stand, the money at Tina Bar has nothing to do with the flight path outside of the fact the plane did cross the Columbia somewhere  ...  with FJ saying the money bag was snagged on the stairs and left the plane miraculously at that time!   O0

<edit>  whatever means the money took to be at Tina Bar, that story must also satisfy ALL of the forensic facts the money itself tells.

Interesting story regarding your cousins. Who's to say IF Cooper was carrying a gun or not ! What I find interesting is what makes it so difficult to believe that perhaps Cooper might have dropped a part of his loot while crossing this long railroad bridge verses a no pull into Tina Bar ? Do the Math ! Assuming even that Cooper had no idea where he was when he jumped, what bad luck that he would land in the Columbia river. If he survived the jump, there's a decent chance he needed to cross that bridge.

Why?
Assuming you're asking why there's a decent chance he needed to cross that bridge IF he survived the jump ? His caper originated at PDX so there's a decent chance his escape vehicle might be in Portland somewhere. Only 2 bridges cross the Columbia River. I would say IF you want to go undetected, which bridge would you choose ? The I 5 bridge or the railroad bridge ? The Railroad Bridge would be a decent chose..... until a train arrives !

and that might be where he ran into a problem - itinerants/hobos using the same bridge. The bridge is very long. No place to escape. People collected/loitered at both ends of the bridge. Somehow I dont see that as a choice he would make. He practiced avoidance during the hijacking.
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2169 on: June 18, 2017, 02:18:49 PM »

I walked right up to the entrance to the Railroad Bridge on Vancouver side with my car parked 100 feet away. When I went to foot of bridge to take a few photos, I was greeted by the sound of a approaching Train whistle. The train was moving VERY slowly ! On the Oregon side, access is not so easy and the Hobo camps are under the bridge.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2170 on: June 18, 2017, 02:46:51 PM »
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I walked right up to the entrance to the Railroad Bridge on Vancouver side with my car parked 100 feet away. When I went to foot of bridge to take a few photos, I was greeted by the sound of a approaching Train whistle. The train was moving VERY slowly ! On the Oregon side, access is not so easy and the Hobo camps are under the bridge.

Trains moving slowly to be expected. I wonder how many people have been hit, injured, or even killed on that bridge? Forced to jump? Especially at night ... that is a very very very long bridge with little room for error ??

Is there a catwalk to one side?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 02:50:04 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2171 on: June 18, 2017, 03:09:55 PM »
Looking at Google maps it appears no catwalk, I don't think any train bridges allow this...don't see railing either..

Quote
Railroads tend to be skittish about approving walking and biking routes because they fear liability if someone gets injured. Even so, 43 percent of rails-with-trails, as they’re known, are located wholly within railroad rights-of-way, while another 12 percent have some segments inside the right-of-way. So negotiating with railroads — from Class I freight railroads to urban light rail operators — is possible, if you know how to approach them.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 03:12:31 PM by Shutter »
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2172 on: June 18, 2017, 03:41:42 PM »
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Looking at Google maps it appears no catwalk, I don't think any train bridges allow this...don't see railing either..

Quote
Railroads tend to be skittish about approving walking and biking routes because they fear liability if someone gets injured. Even so, 43 percent of rails-with-trails, as they’re known, are located wholly within railroad rights-of-way, while another 12 percent have some segments inside the right-of-way. So negotiating with railroads — from Class I freight railroads to urban light rail operators — is possible, if you know how to approach them.

I thought somebody told me there was a wooden catwalk back in the day (71) off to the side ? I have some old photos someone sent me years ago... will look.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2173 on: June 18, 2017, 03:47:55 PM »
Prt of that bridge swings, so I doubt they would venture into walkways...
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2174 on: June 18, 2017, 03:50:41 PM »
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Prt of that bridge swings, so I doubt they would venture into walkways...

Heres a photo taken in 2007 - I dont see much space for a catwalk .. looks like a deathtrap to me.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 03:52:27 PM by georger »