Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1834502 times)

Offline 377

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1597
  • Thanked: 444 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2130 on: June 08, 2017, 01:58:46 PM »
Meyer wrote: "You always say there's zero evidence for this and zero evidence for that, kind of implying that it must not have happened then.  We only have two pieces of physical evidence in this case -- the Tina Bar money and a placard.  That's it.  Evidence for much of anything is pretty much non-existent here.  Yet, that is your counter argument for just about everything.  What was in the bag, what was in the briefcase besides a bomb or flares, what was in Cooper's pocket??  Yes, there was No evidence of an electronics device, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there.  You are definitely a lawyer, 377"

I am a lawyer Meyer, but I am also an EE and longtime radio user. I know what kind of small nav and comm gear was available in 1971. Cooper could have carried a hand held comm radio, CB, VHF or UHF, but that would not give nav info. Direction finding gear could have been carried by an accomplice on the ground, but that would just give a bearing not a location. There was no GPS back then. DME, LORAN, OMEGA and VOR gear was big in 1971 and took a fair amount of power to operate. Could he have had some larger nav gear in his briefcase? I suppose it's possible.

Nobody would like Cooper to have been radio equipped more than I would, but I see no reason to think that he was. Might he have been radio equipped?? Sure. Is there any physical or behavioral evidence that he was? No.

If Cooper were smart enough to carry radio gear he almost certainly would have included a small tunable VHF air band receiver. That way he could monitor ALL comms between the plane, FAA and FBI giving him a big advantage in avoiding an ambush or trickery. 

377





 
The following users thanked this post: andrade1812

georger

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2131 on: June 08, 2017, 03:20:38 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Meyer wrote: "You always say there's zero evidence for this and zero evidence for that, kind of implying that it must not have happened then.  We only have two pieces of physical evidence in this case -- the Tina Bar money and a placard.  That's it.  Evidence for much of anything is pretty much non-existent here.  Yet, that is your counter argument for just about everything.  What was in the bag, what was in the briefcase besides a bomb or flares, what was in Cooper's pocket??  Yes, there was No evidence of an electronics device, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there.  You are definitely a lawyer, 377"

I am a lawyer Meyer, but I am also an EE and longtime radio user. I know what kind of small nav and comm gear was available in 1971. Cooper could have carried a hand held comm radio, CB, VHF or UHF, but that would not give nav info. Direction finding gear could have been carried by an accomplice on the ground, but that would just give a bearing not a location. There was no GPS back then. DME, LORAN, OMEGA and VOR gear was big in 1971 and took a fair amount of power to operate. Could he have had some larger nav gear in his briefcase? I suppose it's possible.

Nobody would like Cooper to have been radio equipped more than I would, but I see no reason to think that he was. Might he have been radio equipped?? Sure. Is there any physical or behavioral evidence that he was? No.

If Cooper were smart enough to carry radio gear he almost certainly would have included a small tunable VHF air band receiver. That way he could monitor ALL comms between the plane, FAA and FBI giving him a big advantage in avoiding an ambush or trickery. 

377

Much of this depends on the stews - they saw nothing in the way of electronic gear - they saw only the contents of the bomb and DB's contention his bomb was "electronic" (he used those words) and he told Tina? it would be better if the cockpit didn't use their radio (it might set off the bomb?). That had to send a chill down their backs. They apparently didn't see or hear anything else to suggest 'electronics' even through the lavatory door.

He gave no specific instructions that indicated he was listening to a radio or vhf monitor ?

But, his reference to the bomb being 'electronic' is interesting. It indicates he knew what 'electronic' meant ... and from that there is a good chance he knew what atoms and protons and electrons were! Tina should have asked him to explain the Lorenz transformations and special relativity?

Then it turns out the FBI is actually discussing if he had some kind of navigational electronics or not? The FBI said nothing about that int heir profile of DB Cooper.
 :)



   
 

Offline dice

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • Thanked: 40 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2132 on: June 08, 2017, 03:54:16 PM »
Quote
they saw only the contents of the bomb

Obviously this caper was well planned....and before any simplelton mindlessly screams at me "where is the evidence it was well planned!!?!?", I point them to the self evident fact that it has never been solved, not even a hint of solve, after 40+ years....now, unless I am mistaken, didn't he have a briefcase AND a bag? I recall reading the bag bit in the FBI papers, and if I'm wrong about a bag, then the egg gladly and rightfully goes on my face... If so, I'd assume that, being well planned, the bag contained useful items for the caper and getaway....  just because the hottie stewardesses (Tina was one, there was another looker I saw in the press conference) didn't see other items, doesn't mean he didn't have them....
..end of Dice transmission....
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 03:58:45 PM by dice »
Purdue 38  Iowa 36
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2133 on: June 08, 2017, 04:38:13 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote
they saw only the contents of the bomb

Obviously this caper was well planned....and before any simplelton mindlessly screams at me "where is the evidence it was well planned!!?!?", I point them to the self evident fact that it has never been solved, not even a hint of solve, after 40+ years....now, unless I am mistaken, didn't he have a briefcase AND a bag? I recall reading the bag bit in the FBI papers, and if I'm wrong about a bag, then the egg gladly and rightfully goes on my face... If so, I'd assume that, being well planned, the bag contained useful items for the caper and getaway....  just because the hottie stewardesses (Tina was one, there was another looker I saw in the press conference) didn't see other items, doesn't mean he didn't have them....
..end of Dice transmission....

agree with most of this - well executed. Patient, deliberate, and out the door into a place very difficult to launch any search in, and gone. But the money just does not seem to fit with the assumed facts. We seem to be lacking some facts. (only Cooper knows?)  :)
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 04:39:00 PM by georger »
 
The following users thanked this post: dice

Offline 377

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1597
  • Thanked: 444 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2134 on: June 08, 2017, 07:43:08 PM »
Georger wrote: "But the money just does not seem to fit with the assumed facts. We seem to be lacking some facts."

Amen brother, amen.

I have looked at the chard field evidence.  My pet theory that Brian's Dad subtly led his son to "find" previously planted Cooper currency has to be discarded. His Dad was squirrelly as hell in the History Channel interview, but the vertical and horizontal dimensions of the chard field rules out a plant of the currency stack found by Brian

If we believe Cooper exited at a point which could credibly deposit the money (by losing it during the jump) at T bar, then the most widely accepted flight map is inaccurate.  You cant square one with the other.

377
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 07:46:25 PM by 377 »
 

Offline dice

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • Thanked: 40 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2135 on: June 08, 2017, 07:49:13 PM »
Quote
agree with most of this - well executed

Let me use a better word.... BRILLIANTLY executed. That a bunch of us are still here, 46 years later, actively discussing it, is telling. 

And this segways to a curiosity of mine, why it seems the idea of it being a planned operation by at least 2 people, is little discussed.  If anything, to pull this off and have the FBI shut down search, and sleuths still nowhere near a solve, it implies with fervor, that it was a collective effort rather than a sole scofflaw. That, or luck was on his side in spades...

Purdue 38  Iowa 36
 

Robert99

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2136 on: June 08, 2017, 07:55:39 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
. . . . .
If we believe Cooper exited at a point which could credibly deposit the money (by losing it during the jump) at T bar, then the most widely accepted flight map is inaccurate.  You cant square one with the other.

377

Welcome to the club, it has been very lonely here. ;D
 

Robert99

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2137 on: June 08, 2017, 07:58:36 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote
agree with most of this - well executed

Let me use a better word.... BRILLIANTLY executed. That a bunch of us are still here, 46 years later, actively discussing it, is telling. 

And this segways to a curiosity of mine, why it seems the idea of it being a planned operation by at least 2 people, is little discussed.  If anything, to pull this off and have the FBI shut down search, and sleuths still nowhere near a solve, it implies with fervor, that it was a collective effort rather than a sole scofflaw. That, or luck was on his side in spades...

Your last sentence explains everything.  At least up to the time Cooper jumped. :(
 

Offline dice

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • Thanked: 40 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2138 on: June 08, 2017, 08:27:02 PM »
Quote
Your last sentence explains everything.  At least up to the time Cooper jumped.


Oh, goody gum drops, for I have literally no idea what you're referring to....was it wittiness that I missed? If not, then what exactly was so lucky, before the jump? Are you referring to the crew buying his likely bluff of having a bomb and not road flares with wires and a battery?  Lucky that they didn't storm the plane whilst in the lav?  Enlighten me here...

 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 08:29:29 PM by dice »
Purdue 38  Iowa 36
 

MeyerLouie

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2139 on: June 08, 2017, 08:31:19 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Meyer wrote: "You always say there's zero evidence for this and zero evidence for that, kind of implying that it must not have happened then.  We only have two pieces of physical evidence in this case -- the Tina Bar money and a placard.  That's it.  Evidence for much of anything is pretty much non-existent here.  Yet, that is your counter argument for just about everything.  What was in the bag, what was in the briefcase besides a bomb or flares, what was in Cooper's pocket??  Yes, there was No evidence of an electronics device, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there.  You are definitely a lawyer, 377"

I am a lawyer Meyer, but I am also an EE and longtime radio user. I know what kind of small nav and comm gear was available in 1971. Cooper could have carried a hand held comm radio, CB, VHF or UHF, but that would not give nav info. Direction finding gear could have been carried by an accomplice on the ground, but that would just give a bearing not a location. There was no GPS back then. DME, LORAN, OMEGA and VOR gear was big in 1971 and took a fair amount of power to operate. Could he have had some larger nav gear in his briefcase? I suppose it's possible.

Nobody would like Cooper to have been radio equipped more than I would, but I see no reason to think that he was. Might he have been radio equipped?? Sure. Is there any physical or behavioral evidence that he was? No.

If Cooper were smart enough to carry radio gear he almost certainly would have included a small tunable VHF air band receiver. That way he could monitor ALL comms between the plane, FAA and FBI giving him a big advantage in avoiding an ambush or trickery. 

377

That's good information,  377.  Thanks for the clarification and insight on that issue.
Meyer
 

Offline dice

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • Thanked: 40 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2140 on: June 08, 2017, 10:15:59 PM »
Quote
Could he have had some larger nav gear in his briefcase? I suppose it's possible.

If it's true that the caper was well planned, and by that I mean much more than Cooper seems to be given credit for by all the pundits, then no homing equipment was needed other than a compass... for Cooper knew what the flights that vector would be (V23) along with the terrain and where to jump. With a man on ground, driving up and down the agreed main artery road, it could be routine, say, to those who did the same thing in Vietnam or WW2.  Commandos did it often.  Cooper would have generally known where he jumped and at what side of river and it was a matter of knowing which direction to walk toward the rendezvous road.  maybe if Himmelsbach didn't braze him a two bit criminal early on, and instead, showed the damn admiration the feat merited, then maybe it'd have had a better chance of a solve. 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 10:17:27 PM by dice »
Purdue 38  Iowa 36
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2141 on: June 08, 2017, 11:47:44 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Georger wrote: "But the money just does not seem to fit with the assumed facts. We seem to be lacking some facts."

Amen brother, amen.

I have looked at the chard field evidence.  My pet theory that Brian's Dad subtly led his son to "find" previously planted Cooper currency has to be discarded. His Dad was squirrelly as hell in the History Channel interview, but the vertical and horizontal dimensions of the chard field rules out a plant of the currency stack found by Brian

If we believe Cooper exited at a point which could credibly deposit the money (by losing it during the jump) at T bar, then the most widely accepted flight map is inaccurate.  You cant square one with the other.

377

The KIRO video is major evidence. We still need to flesh that out better. I think we can when we get time.
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2142 on: June 08, 2017, 11:49:49 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote
agree with most of this - well executed

Let me use a better word.... BRILLIANTLY executed. That a bunch of us are still here, 46 years later, actively discussing it, is telling. 

And this segways to a curiosity of mine, why it seems the idea of it being a planned operation by at least 2 people, is little discussed.  If anything, to pull this off and have the FBI shut down search, and sleuths still nowhere near a solve, it implies with fervor, that it was a collective effort rather than a sole scofflaw. That, or luck was on his side in spades...

Dice says:  That a bunch of us are still here, 46 years later, actively discussing it, is telling. 

I love that part - maybe we are all just crazy! Obsessed - persistent.  C:-)
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2143 on: June 08, 2017, 11:53:05 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote
Your last sentence explains everything.  At least up to the time Cooper jumped.


Oh, goody gum drops, for I have literally no idea what you're referring to....was it wittiness that I missed? If not, then what exactly was so lucky, before the jump? Are you referring to the crew buying his likely bluff of having a bomb and not road flares with wires and a battery?  Lucky that they didn't storm the plane whilst in the lav?  Enlighten me here...

You did hear the Peterson interview? They wanted to blow him in the lav, from the bottom of the plane. Nyrop screamed "NO!". Who knows if its true ...
 

Robert99

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2144 on: June 09, 2017, 01:33:53 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote
Your last sentence explains everything.  At least up to the time Cooper jumped.


Oh, goody gum drops, for I have literally no idea what you're referring to....was it wittiness that I missed? If not, then what exactly was so lucky, before the jump? Are you referring to the crew buying his likely bluff of having a bomb and not road flares with wires and a battery?  Lucky that they didn't storm the plane whilst in the lav?  Enlighten me here...

In your apparently very thorough research of this matter, you seem to have missed the part about the NWA senior management telling the flight crew to cooperate with Cooper.  So it really didn't matter if Cooper knew what he was doing or not, NWA management was going to do all they could to help him get to where ever he wanted to go.

Cooper didn't need to be a master criminal to hijack the airplane, get the money, and to get back into the air headed for who knows where.

But once Cooper separated from the airliner, NWA couldn't help him any more and he was confronted with Mother Nature who does not always cooperate in such cases.

Basically, the Cooper hijacking was a two-bit crime where he ended up falling through the cracks and disappearing.  There is no factual basis whatsoever for believing that Cooper survived the jump.