Did Cossey always claim all 4 chutes came from him? in the documentary flight from justice he said he provided two chutes? is this where it's possible people misunderstood his words. what I mean is he packed all 4, but only gave the FBI two?


Batting zero today, I'm reading Bruce's long post on DZ where Cossey has changed his story a couple times.....

From Sluggo's site....

Earl Cossey actually packed all four chutes, the two back pack chutes were sold or given to the individual who sent them in the cab to Boeing Field. Cossey also packed the reserve chutes, but they were provided not by Cossey but the owner of Issaquah Sky Sports. Cossey discovered that one chute was for “Training Only” later on.

Well, like I said. it might all be just a coincidence. seem Fredrick's was only 5' 8". that counts him out in my book......

5' 8'' suspects seem to be a dime a dozen.

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Well, like I said. it might all be just a coincidence. seem Fredrick's was only 5' 8". that counts him out in my book......

5' 8'' suspects seem to be a dime a dozen.

Im guessing 5'8" was an average height for American males during that time. (maybe even slightly shorter).

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I wonder if the FBI looked into the background of FREDERICK WILLIAM HAHNEMAN who hijacked a plane in May of 1972. lots of people try and claim McCoy did two hijackings, why not someone else? Fredrick's has some possible motives and actions that are similar to Cooper's. people have claimed it could of been politically motivated. Fredrick's was "anti'communist" which was a strong subject in the 70's "I have a grude". he was also a smoker, but asked for two cartons of Benson & Hedges, and all kinds of gear. this could just be a well planned out plot, but could also be one from lessons learned?

Fredrick's was an engineer in Easton Pa. many claim Cooper had this position.

He has been quoted as being "nice, very polite." just as Cooper was.

Cooper said "no funny stuff"
Fredrick's said "don't try anything funny"

His composite sketch was pretty good. I took the composite and shaded his sunglasses in and put it with some Cooper composites.

I just found it strange about a lot of the similarities, but that's all they might be.....

I keep going back to the physical evidence left on the plane. Evidently, none of the finger prints matched anyone of significance? The mtdna evidence is problematic and leads nowhere, except FBI spokespeople are quick to say what they have is exclusionary and can rule people out, whatever that means!  And yet there are so many experts and people cock-sure of this or that ... on the internet. It's a 'riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma." And only 377 and Jo Weber and RobertMBlevins (whoever he is!) knows for sure! Just another day in the DB Cooper famine in nowheresville.

One has to wonder, If the FBI has good prints and they claim he probably had priors, it kinda rules that out. the prints should of gave a return. do they have good prints, or was Cooper never caught before and was never in the military?

Beats the hell out of me! Evidently not in the american military or in american data bases? That makes one wonder! If the name Dan Cooper does relate to the French comic then perhaps this guy was not an American in spite of his linguistic phonology (accent)  ?  I am convinced people including the stew would have picked up any linguistic anomaly. Moreover his notes evidently didn't throw a language flag ?

There is no published evidence he made ANY attempt to hide his fingerprints; in fact just the opposite. Neither did he apparently try and hide his language profile? Bewildering.

Carol's identification of Canada as a possible origin, based on the comic, is a little far fetched, imho.  Olive skin is very suggestive of an ethnic identity of some kind, imo. I would love to have the genetic profiles the FBI had worked up because I am very curious there just might be a marker in those results which might point to a haplotype grouping? Something is missing that should be making itself known! There are experts who deal with genetic puzzles like this the FBI might consult, just for the hell-of-it! To me the fact his prints did not come up on any data base sampled (if that's true) points to some specific cause which links directly to the man's identity.

I wonder if foreign data bases were ever consulted? Would the Cubans cooperate to do that!?

Was the tie tested for 'food type chemistries' ? I doubt it. I dont think Tom thought to do that. I mean everybody eats? (on this planet)

In fact!, the possibility of a Cuban connection is one of the most under-explored/under-reported aspects of this whole case and something that may very well be deep under the rug.   Never mind Cooper had olive skin, demanded to go to Mexico City (his first choice uttered), he then wanted Reno which had a ton of Cuban connections at the time, he had a distinctly foreign look according to some,  may have had marcelled hair, Cuban related  people were doing a high percentage of the airplane hijackings at the time, and if you take several of the 'cliches' he used as a clue he may have been making a special effort to talk in 'Americanese' (to Americans so Americans would understand his intentions and demands)? I mean look at his actions and things he said and did from his perspective if he wasn't an American? Then, if the lack of palpable accent is true, something odd is going on in the case of Mr. Cooper ?  His stated "grudge" could have been political. And the irony is:  Himmelsbach's first description of Cooper, without having ever met the guy but relying on agent and NWA reports, was as a "food service worker"! That goes directly to the possibility of a foreigner in Himmelsbach's mind based on the descriptions he was getting through the bureau, which could add up to "Hello Che and Fidel adios muchachos" - strike one for Cuba!"

Carr stayed far away from any Cuban connection, but does that mean the FBI never explored that possibility? You almost know they did and had to! And yet that data is NOWHERE in the published dozier of this case. Why!?
 
He could have been an anti-Castro element based in Florida working in America (in metals fabrication?), someone with a non-American military background, ...... with a reverse political grudge ! A Bay of Pigs grudge?

If this hijacking were to happen today, there would be a whole new battery of tests and procedures in play with different results.

 

   

Hardly any of it makes any sense. they have never spoken of any suspects turning up by checking the prints. I believe if not mistaken they get several hits on a good print, and they have to determine which print is the right one by an expert over the computer. how many prints do they have after narrowing some of them down that were explained. If they have a good full print of Cooper do we rule out he was never arrested, or in the military?

Nobody in this Country has come forward missing a brother, or father during this period except Vicki. she has ran into many walls over this. I think Vicki could add more about the problems with the red tape and missing persons. I doubt any data bases have been checked outside the U.S. especially back in the 70's.

I think if we knew what his actual grudge was it could of helped in many ways understanding who Cooper was.

If the FBI ran the prints of Cooper in the IAFIS system, they would not be able to run them against the military prints. There are different databases within the system, but the only prints they could legally/ethically compare with are the prints uploaded to the system of people who have been arrested or have a criminal record. This is if all prints from the past were uploaded.

Many old fingerprint cards were never uploaded because they old cases were closed. I was told this by a US Marshal in Central Wisconsin. In addition, I have not received an answer from anyone in the law enforcement field saying if my dad's prints were ever uploaded. If the FBI had a good suspect they could pull the military prints to compare.

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Reading the IAFIS link from the FBI makes me wonder if Cooper's prints are uploaded into the latent database files....

Hardly any of it makes any sense. they have never spoken of any suspects turning up by checking the prints. I believe if not mistaken they get several hits on a good print, and they have to determine which print is the right one by an expert over the computer. how many prints do they have after narrowing some of them down that were explained. If they have a good full print of Cooper do we rule out he was never arrested, or in the military?

Nobody in this Country has come forward missing a brother, or father during this period except Vicki. she has ran into many walls over this. I think Vicki could add more about the problems with the red tape and missing persons. I doubt any data bases have been checked outside the U.S. especially back in the 70's.

I think if we knew what his actual grudge was it could of helped in many ways understanding who Cooper was.

We don't really know what the "full" discussion between Tina and Cooper was, regarding his announcement he had a "grudge". All we are told is Tina asked him 'why are you doing this?' or something to that effect, and his reply was something like: "I have a grudge". Nothing further.

Second, I think Himmelsbach's early statement that 'he might be a food service worker working in the area' (of Portland) had some basis in data the FBI thought it had at the time. That statement may have been based on some assumption about the person's 'ethnicity', based on early witnesses reports about how Cooper looked and was acting. An early attempt at classification -

Third, I have long been told by people supposedly close to the FBI that the FBi was keeping several facts about Cooper's physical description 'close to their vest'. One trait was "marcelled hair - a European look"! Gray then surfaces years later after reviewing FBI files and he (Geoff) announces "mercalled hair" for the first time publicly.
When you join "olive skin" with "marcelled hair" that is almost a tip-off to European or Caribbean ethnicity ?

Fourth, the fact that prints did not register in any domestic data base opens to the door to a foreigner. And if that is the case the 'case' immediately gets more complicated to trace and could involve foreign cooperation which might or might-not be forthcoming, especially if Cuba was involved.

Let me stop here -

     

It sounds like we all need to work together and start our own database of evidence. what I mean is starting from the minute the plane took off. what was said, who said it etc. and put it into a locked thread..... A mythbuster thread....

These are Cooper’s exact words as spoken to Schaffner:
Cooper said to Schaffner; "Take this down. I want $200,000 by 5:00 PM in cash. Put it in a knapsack. I want two back parachutes and two front parachutes. When we land, I want a fuel truck ready to refuel. No funny stuff, or I'll do the job."

What happen to " negotiable American currency" ?

It sounds like we all need to work together and start our own database of evidence. what I mean is starting from the minute the plane took off. what was said, who said it etc. and put it into a locked thread..... A mythbuster thread....

These are Cooper’s exact words as spoken to Schaffner:
Cooper said to Schaffner; "Take this down. I want $200,000 by 5:00 PM in cash. Put it in a knapsack. I want two back parachutes and two front parachutes. When we land, I want a fuel truck ready to refuel. No funny stuff, or I'll do the job."

What happen to " negotiable American currency" ?

There have also been miscellaneous claims DBC specified he wanted $20 bills, and on the balance of information, I vey much doubt he did.

I think your suggestion of starting our own database is the way to go. Go back to the beginning using first principals and lay it down as it really happened, or at least as it can be best verified. I'd suggest a new thread for the exercise to keep it lean and clean.