Hello everyone! I've been on vacation for a bit and I am just now getting back into the swing of things after catching up on the board for the past few days. A few points I'd like to share and maybe throw an idea into the ring.

First. I listened to a DBC podcast while on the plane last week. It was actually pretty damn good and I recommend it. The Podcast was Hearts2Tails and it was episode 31. What I liked about it the most was they had a 777 pilot and he sort of broke down some of the "pilot talk" into normal english, gave his opinion, and answered some questions. If anyone listens to it or has listened to it; let me know what you think.

Second. Someone posted that Tina said she couldn't accept gratuities. But really...is this a gratuity?! I mean, I guess she "technically" provided a service but I totally think it was fair game for her to accept some of the money. Just sayin...

Lastly, I saw that 377 was writing about DBC's state of mind and the discussion got into "speed pills."  Well, this is where I think I might have an idea. Let me know what you think:

"Uppers" or "speed" causes too much excitement and agitation. It also causes some nasty stuff like body tremors, bruxism, restlessness, exaggerated reflexes, disorientation ("looks like Tacoma down there" - obviously oriented), and speech difficulties.  So off of that; I think what you're looking for is something that increases stimulation and focus while decreasing anxiety.

Tactical medics provide SWAT operators with a medication called "Modafinil." This is given to the operators on long drawn out missions like barricade situations or hostage standoffs. The thing about Modafinil is its not a stimulant per se so it does not wire you. When you want to sleep on it, you can but it makes you focus. Its actually the only approved fatigue management medication for the US Air Force as well as by astronauts on missions.

Then I started doing a little research into it. Come to find out; the stuff was developed by military to keep soldiers alert during combat with very little sleep. It became widespread in the late 80's but alas...I read on. It was actually first designed and developed by the military in the late 70's. Ok Georger (I kid cause I love), I know you're gonna say that still a bit too late for November 1971, right?? Well...Modafinil is actually a successor agent to Adrafinil which was first developed in wait for it...wait for it...1974. Now if DBC had some sort of special ops background, I'd risk saying that if the stuff came out in 1974, its plausible that they had it in 1971.

And that my friends...may be the type of medication you're looking for!

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Georger...I am not suggesting that he purchased this stuff over the counter. I believe based on the facts that its plausible that he was able to obtain this stuff through the military somehow. I believe that Modafinil is controlled (schedule 2 maybe) so I agree; I do not believe its sold over the counter. To be honest with you, I have no idea if it was used obviously; its just a though. Some of the members were bringing up ideas earlier pertaining to stimulants and it came to my mind when I was reading it.

People state that DBC's left very few clues; I kind of think he left more...we just haven't figured them out yet.

I agree with you 100% - Cooper is the one who brings this up, not us. We are merely following tracks in the mud trying to read them.

However, people have this romantic idea that people in the military can 'do' and 'get' anything, from the great warehouse in the sky. Thats just not true. I have no idea if any of these 'benzhydryl sulfinyls' were even available to anyone in the military anywhere, in 1971? Amps is what Cooper (apparently) had.

What I find curious is that he's bringing this up at all to the audience he is addressing. To me this is rather funny. I mean I see this as some unknown guy showing up at a Celtics game demanding: Play Me, or I'll shoot off my bomb! I mean Ratrck says it pretty well: 'Who is this guy!? Has he got the manual back there?' And now he's throwing in pills and 'helps you stay awake' into the mix. Im not willing to following Cooper too far down any rabbit hole until he presents his credentials ... and if he isn't going to be on the plane for five more hours after already being up all night having second thoughts worrying, and with the jump just ahead, then foraging on the ground in an escape ... WHY BRING UP DRUGS NOW!?  The dance has only started?

He is giving evidence of leaving very soon ... the crew is soon to be rid of him ... why is he recommending drugs for the crew at all?

Tina should have replied to him: "Well if I were you - I would take all the drugs you have, at once, right now!"  Maybe he would have had a heart attack and dropped dead? 

     

Back then it was popular to take "No Doze" -- especially for college students during final exams week.  We never gave it a second thought about it being some crazy drug.  It was OTC, it just kept you awake so you could study.  Packing some "No Doz" around back then was no big deal.  You got a bit jittery, but they worked.  If that's all Cooper had, so what?  No big deal.  He just wanted to stay awake and alert.
Meyer

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Georger...I am not suggesting that he purchased this stuff over the counter. I believe based on the facts that its plausible that he was able to obtain this stuff through the military somehow. I believe that Modafinil is controlled (schedule 2 maybe) so I agree; I do not believe its sold over the counter. To be honest with you, I have no idea if it was used obviously; its just a though. Some of the members were bringing up ideas earlier pertaining to stimulants and it came to my mind when I was reading it.

People state that DBC's left very few clues; I kind of think he left more...we just haven't figured them out yet.

I agree with you 100% - Cooper is the one who brings this up, not us. We are merely following tracks in the mud trying to read them.

However, people have this romantic idea that people in the military can 'do' and 'get' anything, from the great warehouse in the sky. Thats just not true. I have no idea if any of these 'benzhydryl sulfinyls' were even available to anyone in the military anywhere, in 1971? Amps is what Cooper (apparently) had.

What I find curious is that he's bringing this up at all to the audience he is addressing. To me this is rather funny. I mean I see this as some unknown guy showing up at a Celtics game demanding: Play Me, or I'll shoot off my bomb! I mean Ratrck says it pretty well: 'Who is this guy!? Has he got the manual back there?' And now he's throwing in pills and 'helps you stay awake' into the mix. Im not willing to following Cooper too far down any rabbit hole until he presents his credentials ... and if he isn't going to be on the plane for five more hours after already being up all night having second thoughts worrying, and with the jump just ahead, then foraging on the ground in an escape ... WHY BRING UP DRUGS NOW!?  The dance has only started?

He is giving evidence of leaving very soon ... the crew is soon to be rid of him ... why is he recommending drugs for the crew at all?

Tina should have replied to him: "Well if I were you - I would take all the drugs you have, at once, right now!"  Maybe he would have had a heart attack and dropped dead? 

     

Back then it was popular to take "No Doze" -- especially for college students during final exams week.  We never gave it a second thought about it being some crazy drug.  It was OTC, it just kept you awake so you could study.  Packing some "No Doz" around back then was no big deal.  You got a bit jittery, but they worked.  If that's all Cooper had, so what?  No big deal.  He just wanted to stay awake and alert.
Meyer

There may be no more to it than that - No Doze. Everyone knew about it.

I still find it odd that Cooper would bring it up, to a captive "educated" audience. Especially since he is soon be off the plane and relieve the crew of their 'ordeal'. His ordeal has only started! Maybe he brought it up looking for empathy?

The same question can be asked about Cooper's ordering the meals for the crew and himself.  None of those meals were eaten until the search dogs entered the aircraft at Reno about 11:30 PM PST which was almost four hours after the airliner took off from Seattle. 

Georger...I am not suggesting that he purchased this stuff over the counter. I believe based on the facts that its plausible that he was able to obtain this stuff through the military somehow. I believe that Modafinil is controlled (schedule 2 maybe) so I agree; I do not believe its sold over the counter. To be honest with you, I have no idea if it was used obviously; its just a though. Some of the members were bringing up ideas earlier pertaining to stimulants and it came to my mind when I was reading it.

People state that DBC's left very few clues; I kind of think he left more...we just haven't figured them out yet.

I also agree Cooper left a number of clues but it seems that the FBI has tried to convince us he was not very bright and jumped to a certain death. Let's discuss a few.
1. The FBI says " Why would Cooper choose to jump at night into a freezing cold storm " ?  My answer is simple ... because he didn't want to get caught ! If he jumped in the daylight on a clear beautiful day, he would be picked up almost before he landed.
2. Cooper's whole plan was based on jumping out of a plane at night with what amounts to $1,200,000.
This tells me it was not his first jump. Also 777 told us clearly that nobody he has ever witnessed who did their first jumped were ever NOT VERY SCARED. Only a complete idiot would do this under those conditions. Cooper did nothing on this whole caper to tell me he was that dumb.
I like to look at things from a logical perspective. Lots of times logic will solve mysteries. We know with 100% certainty that Cooper flew from Portland to Seattle. If I flew on that flight it would be pretty much impossible NOT to notice this huge river that flows right next to the airport runway right ? If I was going to jump out of this plane on the return trip, common sense tells me to NOT land in this river. Do any of you jumpers think there is ANY chance to survive if you would land in the Columbia ? Both the pilots reported seeing the lights of Vancouver and Portland. It doesn't seem like a stretch to think Cooper must have seen the same thing ! I guess it's all in whether you believe he died in the jump or he survived the jump. If he was experienced, he would have avoided the river !
I think the Money find at Tina Bar could have arrived there without a plant and also without a no pull. Of course being open minded, i see merit in no pull also. But why be closed minded ?

No Doz active ingredient just caffeine. 200 mg per pill. No different from coffee.

377

Sounds about right, just another way to get a little caffeine going so you can stay up into the wee hours cramming for that final exam tomorrow.

Amphetamine use in the military was widespread starting in WWII. Asked my father about it, and he said amphetamines were used extensively by everyone in Vietnam, but that they were specifically given to fighter pilots for oceanic flights (primary navigation aid for oceanic flights was celestial, so flights had to take place at night and pilots had to be awake for them). He called it "Stop and GO," Pilots were given amphetamines to fly, then sedatives upon arrival.

So, amphetamine use limits DB Cooper to... 16 million WWII veterans, nine million Vietnam veterans, long haul truckers, beatniks, and everyone else alive at the time except Mormons and Christian Scientists. So, Richard McCoy is out.

At the present time, it is not unusual to see pilots with small pill containers attached to the collar of their flight suits.  For long ferry flights now, say 12+ hours, the fighters are typically accompanied by one or more tanker aircraft which does the navigation for the whole flight.  However, the pilots need something to help with the fatigue problem and to keep them sharp enough to refuel from the tankers about ever two hours or so.

Robert,
When you say there is only ONE way for,the money to get to,Tina Bar, I'm sorry but you are showing me that you are closed mind to the " Tina Bar No Pull " closed mind thinking that I find a problem with. There are a number of other ways and I have already mentioned one. By the way, the interview with the pilots mentioned that he looked out of his. RIGHT window and saw the lights of Vancouver and Portland. Your flight plan is NOT the only opinion and I am well aware that you support the No pull theory. I'm open !

Let me remind you that Georger has done a lot of checking on this matter and everyone that he has talked to in the Portland area states the airliner was west of Portland.  Georger also quotes one of the flight crew as saying they were west of I-5 in that area.

Additionally, All the chase helicopters and aircraft that tried to intercept the airliner in the Portland area were vectored to the west and southwest sides of Portland.

Still further, the flight crew apparently did not know their exact location when Cooper jumped and this strongly suggests they were flying vectors from ATC and not doing their own navigation at that point.  If they had been on V-23, they would only have to look at their own instrument panel to determine their location.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Georger...I am not suggesting that he purchased this stuff over the counter. I believe based on the facts that its plausible that he was able to obtain this stuff through the military somehow. I believe that Modafinil is controlled (schedule 2 maybe) so I agree; I do not believe its sold over the counter. To be honest with you, I have no idea if it was used obviously; its just a though. Some of the members were bringing up ideas earlier pertaining to stimulants and it came to my mind when I was reading it.

People state that DBC's left very few clues; I kind of think he left more...we just haven't figured them out yet.

I also agree Cooper left a number of clues but it seems that the FBI has tried to convince us he was not very bright and jumped to a certain death. Let's discuss a few.
1. The FBI says " Why would Cooper choose to jump at night into a freezing cold storm " ?  My answer is simple ... because he didn't want to get caught ! If he jumped in the daylight on a clear beautiful day, he would be picked up almost before he landed.
2. Cooper's whole plan was based on jumping out of a plane at night with what amounts to $1,200,000.
This tells me it was not his first jump. Also 777 told us clearly that nobody he has ever witnessed who did their first jumped were ever NOT VERY SCARED. Only a complete idiot would do this under those conditions. Cooper did nothing on this whole caper to tell me he was that dumb.
I like to look at things from a logical perspective. Lots of times logic will solve mysteries. We know with 100% certainty that Cooper flew from Portland to Seattle. If I flew on that flight it would be pretty much impossible NOT to notice this huge river that flows right next to the airport runway right ? If I was going to jump out of this plane on the return trip, common sense tells me to NOT land in this river. Do any of you jumpers think there is ANY chance to survive if you would land in the Columbia ? Both the pilots reported seeing the lights of Vancouver and Portland. It doesn't seem like a stretch to think Cooper must have seen the same thing ! I guess it's all in whether you believe he died in the jump or he survived the jump. If he was experienced, he would have avoided the river !
I think the Money find at Tina Bar could have arrived there without a plant and also without a no pull. Of course being open minded, i see merit in no pull also. But why be closed minded ?

The consensus is, 305 went by Portland on the west side. How far west and on what vector (from where) seems to be the only question.

Note* when I say vector I mean 'vector' and not Victor!)