Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 131 132 [133] 134 135 ... 544   Go Down

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1834269 times)

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1980 on: May 23, 2017, 01:06:57 PM »
Two hijackers use the reserve, and special reason for this?
Logged
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1981 on: May 23, 2017, 01:25:54 PM »
Lots of things to take into consideration here...McNally never touched a chute, went into the typical spin lots of skydivers speak of that could of happened to Cooper. McNally was still able to get the chute open. the plane was traveling much faster and he was able to freefall vs pull from the stairs. the FBI watched him come out of the plane and still wasn't able to catch him. the prints on the gun found later lead them to McNally...

Now, I believe each jump is different along with things leading up to the jump, but what makes Cooper special ops, or CIA vs some pissed off guy trying a different way to commit bank robbery  C:-)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 01:26:36 PM by Shutter »
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: Kermit

Offline Kermit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • Thanked: 108 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1982 on: May 23, 2017, 02:35:03 PM »
Somehow I feel that Cooper was NOT a first time jumper. I know the FBI wants us to believe he died in jump and was a novice. However a lot of evidence shows he knew something !
Logged
 

MeyerLouie

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1983 on: May 23, 2017, 03:19:41 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Meyer write: "And you are saying the jump was totally survivable -- and after listening to skydivers talk about it over the years, I am inclined to agree."

Actually I can think of only one passenger jet jumper who died: that guy in the Philippines who jumped with a homemade canopy that shredded. Were there any others who cratered for sure?

My DC 9 jet jump was no big deal for me and my 84 sky brothers and sisters. My wild tumbling test jump from a firewalled C 130 Herc was way tougher.

In 2018 I'll celebrate a half century of skydiving. Makes me feel ancient.

377


Congratulations 377, a remarkable achievement! 
Meyer
Logged
 

MeyerLouie

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1984 on: May 23, 2017, 03:25:51 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Somehow I feel that Cooper was NOT a first time jumper. I know the FBI wants us to believe he died in jump and was a novice. However a lot of evidence shows he knew something !

I  have always thought that too, Kermit.  There's been lots of talk about Cooper's "amateurism" -- but I've always  thought he was experienced.  He had nerves of steel, he had ice running  through his veins, he was collected and calm as a cucumber.  Getting delayed in his  jump and not getting the aft stairs to be down on takeoff  or deployed readily shortly after takeoff didn't seem to phase him.  And as R99 pointed out not long ago, he knew he was going to be jumping in the dark.  That is behavior un-becoming of a novice, iIMHO.

Meyer
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 03:27:37 PM by MeyerLouie »
Logged
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1985 on: May 23, 2017, 05:55:42 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The search immediately after the hijacking:
...Text follows...

No Trace Of Parachuting Hijacker Mountains Being Searched By ED GROSSWILER Assoclted Press Writer WOODLAND, Wash. (AP) November 27, 1971

Searchers combed a stretch of mountain foothills Friday for the meticulous, parachuting hi- jacker of a Northwest Airlines jet. One sheriff's deputy said the man was "probably long gone" with a ransom of twenty dollar bills.

A 100-man posse, aided by 10 patrol cars and temporarily by six helicopters, fanned out in a five-mile line looking for-two white parachute canopies and portions of a pink chute used by the hijacker Wednesday, night. Patchy fog hung over the sparsely populated area in 'the Cascade Mountains. Intermittent rain and generally deteriorating weather conditions forced authorities to send the helicopters back to their base. "We're either looking for a parachute or a hole in the ground said Undersheriff Tom McDowell.

The hijacker, identified by the FBI only as "D. B. or Dan Cooper" commandeered the Northwest Airlines Boeing 727 jet Flight 305 over Seattle Wednesday and ordered it to Mexico after a re fueling stop in Seattle. The hijacker demanded and received $200,000 and four parachutes while the plane was on the ground in Seattle. In making "an unprecedented parachute escape, from the plane, the middle-age hijacker took with him the ransom from the airline, believed to be one of the largest ever paid, in the United States.

The pilot, Capt. William Scott, told authorities he believed the man bailed out of 'the plane near Woodland, Washington about 25 mile's north of' Portland, Ore...


This is the first I've heard of a 100-man posse. McDowell talks about 20-25 guys with him and being the only ground team in LZ-A.

Pix of Tom Manning at work show a roomful of deputies and volunteers in Woodland, and approximately 25-30 guys appear to be in the room.

This AP report doesn't mention where this 100-man squad and ten cruisers actually went. Unfortunate.
Logged
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1986 on: May 23, 2017, 05:58:43 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

In 2018 I'll celebrate a half century of skydiving. Makes me feel ancient.

377

So, can you stop now?

I don't wanna hear about no accidents....
Logged
 

Offline 377

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1597
  • Thanked: 444 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1987 on: May 23, 2017, 06:58:28 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

In 2018 I'll celebrate a half century of skydiving. Makes me feel ancient.

377

So, can you stop now?

I don't wanna hear about no accidents....

It's an addiction Bruce and there is no skydiving Methadone yet invented. Maybe virtual reality will eventually make the real thing unecessary for older jumpers.

It's a strange feeling standing at the open door at 14,500 ft thinking your remaining lifespan could be about sixty seconds.

The Reaper swings his scythe on every jump, but you learn how to see it coming and dodge it. The problem is that the Reaper doesn't age and jumpers do.

I have dialed back my risk profile. I open higher. I no longer do big formations. I stand down if DZ winds exceed 18-20 knots. But it's still skydiving not golfing.

I love the idea of jumping into my eighties, but it's a longshot. Very very few active jumpers over 80. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Sheridan is over 90 and could still make a solo jump, but no DZ will take the chance. If I owned a DZ I'd let him make one.

377
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: andrade1812

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1988 on: May 23, 2017, 09:46:32 PM »
Sigh. Okay, 377...
Logged
 

Robert99

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1989 on: May 24, 2017, 12:13:32 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Somehow I feel that Cooper was NOT a first time jumper. I know the FBI wants us to believe he died in jump and was a novice. However a lot of evidence shows he knew something !

Kermit,

Let me point out that parachutes are routinely worn ever day by thousands of people who never make an actual jump.  Cooper obviously had some knowledge of parachutes.  Nevertheless, that does not mean me had any actual jumping experience.
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: Kermit

georger

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1990 on: May 24, 2017, 12:48:10 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Somehow I feel that Cooper was NOT a first time jumper. I know the FBI wants us to believe he died in jump and was a novice. However a lot of evidence shows he knew something !

Kermit,

Let me point out that parachutes are routinely worn ever day by thousands of people who never make an actual jump.  Cooper obviously had some knowledge of parachutes.  Nevertheless, that does not mean me had any actual jumping experience.

If a monkey sits down at a type writer and types 't', do we assume he has language?

If he types 'tttttttt' do we assume he has language ?

If he types out his name 'Pete' do we assume he has language?

If he types out the Lords pray and asks for milk, what do we assume - and what newspaper do we call !?

If he sits at a teletypewriter for two years and turns in a phD thesis, what do we do?

 :))

Or, should we administer a few typewriter tests and move on to observing and parsing his 'language' and what he and others of his kind are doing with their sounds and hand made iconograms?

 ;)

 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 12:53:35 AM by georger »
Logged
 

Offline Kermit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • Thanked: 108 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1991 on: May 24, 2017, 01:42:24 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Somehow I feel that Cooper was NOT a first time jumper. I know the FBI wants us to believe he died in jump and was a novice. However a lot of evidence shows he knew something !

Kermit,

Let me point out that parachutes are routinely worn ever day by thousands of people who never make an actual jump.  Cooper obviously had some knowledge of parachutes.  Nevertheless, that does not mean me had any actual jumping experience.

Thanks Robert but my feeling has nothing to do with Cooper wearing a parachute. His entire plan centered around jumping out of a plane with what amounts to 1.2 Million dollars in the dark of night. It just seems logical to me It wasn't his first jump. JMHO
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 09:23:56 AM by Shutter »
Logged
 

MeyerLouie

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1992 on: May 24, 2017, 02:46:20 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Somehow I feel that Cooper was NOT a first time jumper. I know the FBI wants us to believe he died in jump and was a novice. However a lot of evidence shows he knew something !

Kermit,

Let me point out that parachutes are routinely worn ever day by thousands of people who never make an actual jump.  Cooper obviously had some knowledge of parachutes.  Nevertheless, that does not mean me had any actual jumping experience.

If a monkey sits down at a type writer and types 't', do we assume he has language?

If he types 'tttttttt' do we assume he has language ?

If he types out his name 'Pete' do we assume he has language?

If he types out the Lords pray and asks for milk, what do we assume - and what newspaper do we call !?

If he sits at a teletypewriter for two years and turns in a phD thesis, what do we do?

 :))

Or, should we administer a few typewriter tests and move on to observing and parsing his 'language' and what he and others of his kind are doing with their sounds and hand made iconograms?

 ;)

 


Now, that's  funny, Georger. 
Logged
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1993 on: May 24, 2017, 01:19:26 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Somehow I feel that Cooper was NOT a first time jumper. I know the FBI wants us to believe he died in jump and was a novice. However a lot of evidence shows he knew something !

Kermit,

Let me point out that parachutes are routinely worn ever day by thousands of people who never make an actual jump.  Cooper obviously had some knowledge of parachutes.  Nevertheless, that does not mean me had any actual jumping experience.

If a monkey sits down at a type writer and types 't', do we assume he has language?

If he types 'tttttttt' do we assume he has language ?

If he types out his name 'Pete' do we assume he has language?

If he types out the Lords pray and asks for milk, what do we assume - and what newspaper do we call !?

If he sits at a teletypewriter for two years and turns in a phD thesis, what do we do?

 :))

Or, should we administer a few typewriter tests and move on to observing and parsing his 'language' and what he and others of his kind are doing with their sounds and hand made iconograms?

 ;)

 


Now, that's  funny, Georger.

It illustrates the dilemma in profiling anyone. Only several types of people who would hijack a plane and demand a ransom - with a bomb - then jump out the back of the thing going 200mph! I mean, think about this ...

A very desperate man? A crazy person? A suicidal person? A person with some real skills and experience? It's not a normal human activity. They dont sell life insurance for this kind of thing!l

What were Cooper's 'tells'? So we could know Cooper better ?

Example: actual time spent trying to get stairs out 19:40-19:43. Three minutes even with initially reporting a problem. Time spent to identify the problem and solve was about 1-2 minutes. Mucklow sent to cockpit at 19:41; he no longer wanted or needed her help. He solved the stair problem on his own in about two minutes or less.. [time spent solving a mechanical problem is a function of intelligence/experience]

 ;)
 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 01:59:26 PM by georger »
Logged
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1994 on: May 24, 2017, 02:49:30 PM »
Cooper Behavioral:

Ckret
Dec 5, 2007, 3:25 PM
Post #678 of 1694 (1696 views)
Registered: Sep 7, 2007 
________________________________________
When Tina brought the money to Cooper, Cooper started talking excitedly about it (Flo's assessment about him being child like). He talked about how heavy it was and had Flo hold the bag so she could feel the weight. Tina then joked with Cooper about it being a lot of money and could she have some. Cooper reached into the bag and gave her a bundle of money. Tina then said to him she was just joking and that she could not accept gratuities and handed the bundle back to Cooper.

Childlike?  Detached?   Breaking up the tension of the moment?   Solves technical problems.    Selects people and avoids potential problems based on their personality types and their usefulness to his overall goals.    Starts with a timeline and instructions.      Controls people with threat of a bomb, sets the stage for his personal control, then gives up direct physical control by disappearing into the lavatory, but issues instructions through the lav door!   Keeps control by keeping the youngest stew very close to him personally, insisting she sit with him and his bomb and being his voice of communication.   He rejects the older stews very quickly and gets them off the plane at the first real opportunity.   Controls the passengers through ambivalence and feigned ignorance.    Ignores Mitchel's overt curiosity.   Demonstrates lose control of people coming on and off the plane!    Patiently waits out the fueling fiasco then finally raises hell about it. ("Get the show on the road!")          .................               

Never said: negotiable American currency.    Didn't even specify denominations of money to manage the weight and load to parachute with.      Knew he was going to leave before Portland.      Said they were not going to go to Cuba.     "We are going to a place you would like" [may mean: I am going to leave the plane asap and give you back your lives and futures as soon as I can? Just cooperate and this will be over as soon as I can manage it.]   

   


« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 03:01:31 PM by georger »
Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 131 132 [133] 134 135 ... 544   Go Up
« previous next »