Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1819612 times)

georger

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #195 on: September 19, 2014, 01:01:17 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Any info/insights regarding the possibility of whether the FBI or any sleuths ever looked into customers who attended skydiving schools prior to the hijacking? I recall having read very vague info regarding the FBI investigating skydiving schools in some way or another but it was too vague for me to make any determination on whether the FBI actually attempted to gather names of individuals who took lessons from skydiving schools. While I wouldn't expect Cooper to have used his real name as a customer I wouldn't rule out an alias being able to be connected to a suspect.

Related to that: anyone have any info/insights as to whether the FBI/sleuths ever talked to operators of skydiving schools to ask them if they recognized the Cooper sketch, or if any customers seemed strange, etc.
Any and all thoughts very much appreciated.

My 'impression' is, it was a massive search. The FBI and others looked under every rock they could find. It's an untold story! And it just might be in that untold saga some important clues about why this case was never solved exist.    [in fact its under the principle of 'missing the obvious' /right under your nose/, that Jo Weber and Blevins market their stories! That is quite different from the real story of the DB Cooper Investigation the FBI and other officials could tell, and that is an understatement!]

 
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 01:07:37 PM by georger »
 

Robert99

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #196 on: September 19, 2014, 01:06:21 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Any info/insights regarding the possibility of whether the FBI or any sleuths ever looked into customers who attended skydiving schools prior to the hijacking? I recall having read very vague info regarding the FBI investigating skydiving schools in some way or another but it was too vague for me to make any determination on whether the FBI actually attempted to gather names of individuals who took lessons from skydiving schools. While I wouldn't expect Cooper to have used his real name as a customer I wouldn't rule out an alias being able to be connected to a suspect.

Related to that: anyone have any info/insights as to whether the FBI/sleuths ever talked to operators of skydiving schools to ask them if they recognized the Cooper sketch, or if any customers seemed strange, etc.
Any and all thoughts very much appreciated.

Some skydivers who attended a skydiving event (which may have been a National Meet of some kind) in the Seattle area shortly after the hijacking told me that the FBI paid them a visit and talked to a lot of people.  Among the questions asked was if the skydivers thought Cooper could have survived the jump.  I was told that the majority of skydivers thought that Cooper died in the jump.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #197 on: September 19, 2014, 06:23:34 PM »
My understanding is that the FBI was all over the skydiving community in the days immediately following the hijacking. In fact, reports from GG indicate that Earl Cossey was brought in to help with focusing this aspect of the investigation, and told the agents involved that Cooper didn't have to a pro or any kind of expert to successfully jump at night from a 727.

I talked with at least one SOG trooper who was interrogated by the FBI upon his return from Vietnam in circa 1972. Special Agent John Detlor indicated to me that the Bureau did a substantive investigation of paratroopers, especially SF.

Some time later, Coss changed his tune and the FBI adopted the notion that Cooper was an idiot who didn't know what he was doing and died in the jump.

Bruce Thun, the jump master at Thun Field told me that the general feeling at Thun the day after was, "Why didn't I think of that!"  Bruce also told me that the FBI investigation at Thun was so extensive and knowledgeable of personal traits of certain skydivers it was clear that the surveillance at Thun was extensive and long-term.  Bruce's comment was, "How did they know all that stuff?"  He was very upset at the level of FBI surveillance and knowledge, even knowing where the girlfriend of one the Thun skydivers lived in Oregon and was miffed at her skydiving bf for missing her T-Day turkey.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 06:28:19 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline KidCooper

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #198 on: September 21, 2014, 06:44:38 AM »
Good info all around, certainly seems possible the FBI gathered customer lists from skydiving schools. I haven't ruled out trying to contact some schools myself though I think I would lose them right about the time I started asking if they still have records on any customers from '71 and prior. Not to mention some are likely not still in business and any one's that are's willingness to share customers names may be an issue. Not to mention the likelihood that had Cooper taken lessons he would have almost certainly created an alias for the sole purpose of using it to take the lessons. Unless he was using some sort of check fraud to pay for the lessons with an alias he also used to purchase other goods or services. If that were true authorities may have possibly linked that alias to Coopers real name through investigating the check fraud at other businesses (or maybe even check fraud used at the skydiving school itself). Too much of a long shot to not file under dead end, for now, but thought I'd mention it as something I have considered.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #199 on: September 21, 2014, 04:46:29 PM »
There aren't that many jump sites around.  Back in the day, it was Thun Field and Issaquah Sky Sports around Tacoma, and a third field north of Seattle.  There are a few smaller ones, such as Kapowsin Field south of Thun, but they are all interconnected as far as I can tell.  Guys know who is who.

Maybe you should tg along with Sail and me when we head to Ralph Hatley's place in Eagle Creek when I get back from NY.  Late October.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #200 on: September 21, 2014, 04:51:03 PM »
As for survivability, the skydivers who spoke at the 2013 Symposium in Tacoma clearly indicated that the jump was survivable.

Also, remember that all the copycats who jumped made it to the ground successfully, including Martin McNally , who didn't know how to put on his chute and had to be shown. Also, Richard LaPoint made it okay in January in Colorado in the snow, wearing only a shirt and slacks.  And his cowboy boots....
 

Offline 18C

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
  • Thanked: 6 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #201 on: September 21, 2014, 05:07:17 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As for survivability, the skydivers who spoke at the 2013 Symposium in Tacoma clearly indicated that the jump was survivable.

Also, remember that all the copycats who jumped made it to the ground successfully, including Martin McNally , who didn't know how to put on his chute and had to be shown. Also, Richard LaPoint made it okay in January in Colorado in the snow, wearing only a shirt and slacks.  And his cowboy boots....

Sounds like if Richard LaPoint had chosen boots with flexible soles he might well have made it out uninjured.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #202 on: September 21, 2014, 05:20:58 PM »
Regardless of the experience, I would believe each case is going to be different. even a marksman misses a shot. we can't even agree on Cooper's experience, let alone him surviving. one never really knows.....


 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #203 on: September 25, 2014, 05:13:43 PM »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #204 on: September 25, 2014, 05:20:31 PM »
Interesting video. shows a couple seconds of 305 in motion......


 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #205 on: September 26, 2014, 08:58:59 AM »
The Morning Star.....November 27, 1971

Couple interesting points in this article. Scott tells of the plane near the Woodland area, and Tom Manning describes how the path was being calculated.
(see attachments)

The second page of the article is hard to read due to no subscription. The FBI said Cooper jumped 25 minutes after takeoff...


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 09:19:59 AM by shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #206 on: September 28, 2014, 12:18:13 PM »
I wonder if the FBI looked into the background of FREDERICK WILLIAM HAHNEMAN who hijacked a plane in May of 1972. lots of people try and claim McCoy did two hijackings, why not someone else? Fredrick's has some possible motives and actions that are similar to Cooper's. people have claimed it could of been politically motivated. Fredrick's was "anti'communist" which was a strong subject in the 70's "I have a grude". he was also a smoker, but asked for two cartons of Benson & Hedges, and all kinds of gear. this could just be a well planned out plot, but could also be one from lessons learned?

Fredrick's was an engineer in Easton Pa. many claim Cooper had this position.

He has been quoted as being "nice, very polite." just as Cooper was.

Cooper said "no funny stuff"
Fredrick's said "don't try anything funny"

His composite sketch was pretty good. I took the composite and shaded his sunglasses in and put it with some Cooper composites.

I just found it strange about a lot of the similarities, but that's all they might be.....





 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #207 on: September 28, 2014, 12:31:32 PM »
Well, like I said. it might all be just a coincidence. seem Fredrick's was only 5' 8". that counts him out in my book......
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #208 on: September 28, 2014, 02:10:13 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I wonder if the FBI looked into the background of FREDERICK WILLIAM HAHNEMAN who hijacked a plane in May of 1972. lots of people try and claim McCoy did two hijackings, why not someone else? Fredrick's has some possible motives and actions that are similar to Cooper's. people have claimed it could of been politically motivated. Fredrick's was "anti'communist" which was a strong subject in the 70's "I have a grude". he was also a smoker, but asked for two cartons of Benson & Hedges, and all kinds of gear. this could just be a well planned out plot, but could also be one from lessons learned?

Fredrick's was an engineer in Easton Pa. many claim Cooper had this position.

He has been quoted as being "nice, very polite." just as Cooper was.

Cooper said "no funny stuff"
Fredrick's said "don't try anything funny"

His composite sketch was pretty good. I took the composite and shaded his sunglasses in and put it with some Cooper composites.

I just found it strange about a lot of the similarities, but that's all they might be.....

I keep going back to the physical evidence left on the plane. Evidently, none of the finger prints matched anyone of significance? The mtdna evidence is problematic and leads nowhere, except FBI spokespeople are quick to say what they have is exclusionary and can rule people out, whatever that means!  And yet there are so many experts and people cock-sure of this or that ... on the internet. It's a 'riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma." And only 377 and Jo Weber and RobertMBlevins (whoever he is!) knows for sure! Just another day in the DB Cooper famine in nowheresville.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 02:12:26 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #209 on: September 28, 2014, 02:24:26 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I wonder if the FBI looked into the background of FREDERICK WILLIAM HAHNEMAN who hijacked a plane in May of 1972. lots of people try and claim McCoy did two hijackings, why not someone else? Fredrick's has some possible motives and actions that are similar to Cooper's. people have claimed it could of been politically motivated. Fredrick's was "anti'communist" which was a strong subject in the 70's "I have a grude". he was also a smoker, but asked for two cartons of Benson & Hedges, and all kinds of gear. this could just be a well planned out plot, but could also be one from lessons learned?

Fredrick's was an engineer in Easton Pa. many claim Cooper had this position.

He has been quoted as being "nice, very polite." just as Cooper was.

Cooper said "no funny stuff"
Fredrick's said "don't try anything funny"

His composite sketch was pretty good. I took the composite and shaded his sunglasses in and put it with some Cooper composites.

I just found it strange about a lot of the similarities, but that's all they might be.....

I keep going back to the physical evidence left on the plane. Evidently, none of the finger prints matched anyone of significance? The mtdna evidence is problematic and leads nowhere, except FBI spokespeople are quick to say what they have is exclusionary and can rule people out, whatever that means!  And yet there are so many experts and people cock-sure of this or that ... on the internet. It's a 'riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma." And only 377 and Jo Weber and RobertMBlevins (whoever he is!) knows for sure! Just another day in the DB Cooper famine in nowheresville.

One has to wonder, If the FBI has good prints and they claim he probably had priors, it kinda rules that out. the prints should of gave a return. do they have good prints, or was Cooper never caught before and was never in the military?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 02:26:01 PM by shutter »