The transcripts give enough information with the time vs with location, but the plane would have to "pull over" in order to meet your requirements. I flew both legs (SEA to Toledo...Toledo to Merwin) with very similar times the map shows. it's very hard to change these time frames.

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The transcripts give enough information with the time vs with location, but the plane would have to "pull over" in order to meet your requirements. I flew both legs (SEA to Toledo...Toledo to Merwin) with very similar times the map shows. it's very hard to change these time frames.

No it wouldn't, forget about the timestamp. I only used 20:06/07 to reflect the assumed event/timestamp sequence. The timestamp is completely irrelevant as the precise position of the plane oscillation is not known.

What was the exact location of the plane when the pilot's last talked to the hijacker?

Is this (attached) behind your amended-northern earlier LZ. ?

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The oscillation is not an estimate...the time is stamped on the transcripts. it's kind of hard to dispute, or move the jump prior to that incident. 8:10 they reported an oscillation, and stated he must be doing something with the stairs. the pressure bump is where the estimate comes into play since it's not on the transcripts.

This is hard evidence that is difficult to get around if you try to estimate anything before the 8:10 time stamp. I believe some error is possible, but not several minutes from an actual radio transmission. you would have to show the plane's 20:10 location to be where the 20:06/07 location is to become a fact?

That isn't what I meant... you are conflating time with location, I went backwards ignoring the time using placard as a location point. I only used the 20:06/07 as a reference to the believed event timeline, the timeline events may slightly be off re: location. My analysis gets around time error vs plane location. The placard location is more reliable as an event point. Start there. Work forward using events and I get that likely LZ..  it fits within events. I am using location, not timestamp. The timestamp is less precise than the placard location..

Does anybody know for 100% the exact location where the plane was when the oscillation occurred?

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At what point to we take anything of value, when it doesn't fit a theory?

Tbar....wrong money
LZ...wrong location, further north.
Cooper was bald, short, purple eye's..


was it really Northwest airlines, or TWA?

I believe it's possible the dredge put the money on the beach, and it's possible that Cooper landed in the river, but I can't state that as fact, or try and push it on people....

I am not claiming it as fact... Is that something that actually has to be said with every post.. then 95% of the comments need a disclaimer..

I said start there (LZ) and work South..  I just used inference to assume that he would have left the plane 15-45 seconds after the placard based on new knowledge of its use/operation. Using the Placard location that puts his LZ about 1-2 miles South of it. Since we don't know the precise location of the plane during the oscillation, using the timestamp alone is unreliable.

DBC failed to get the main stair control to work then talked to pilots.. returned to Airstairs and was successful, red light went on panel.

Ask yourself, how long after pulling off the placard/door and releasing the Airstairs would it take for him to exit or wait to exit? My opinion 15-45 sec.  The more time he waits, the less likely to be the case.

I am trying to make DZ fit events according to the placard location, you are trying to make events fit timestamp. << this is what has been done for 45 years. I am taking a different approach based on new info.

Just a different approach. One isn't necessarily more valid. The area I pointed out is still within the area generally accepted, albeit extremely North end.

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At what point to we take anything of value, when it doesn't fit a theory?

Tbar....wrong money
LZ...wrong location, further north.
Cooper was bald, short, purple eye's..


was it really Northwest airlines, or TWA?

I believe it's possible the dredge put the money on the beach, and it's possible that Cooper landed in the river, but I can't state that as fact, or try and push it on people....

I am not claiming it as fact... Is that something that actually has to be said with every post.. then 95% of the comments need a disclaimer..

I said start there (LZ) and work South..  I just used inference to assume that he would have left the plane 15-45 seconds after the placard based on new knowledge of its use/operation. Using the Placard location that puts his LZ about 1-2 miles South of it. Since we don't know the precise location of the plane during the oscillation, using the timestamp alone is unreliable.

DBC failed to get the main stair control to work then talked to pilots.. returned to Airstairs and was successful, red light went on panel.

Ask yourself, how long after pulling off the placard/door and releasing the Airstairs would it take for him to exit or wait to exit? My opinion 15-45 sec.  The more time he waits, the less likely to be the case.

I am trying to make DZ fit events according to the placard location, you are trying to make events fit timestamp. << this is what has been done for 45 years. I am taking a different approach based on new info.

Just a different approach. One isn't necessarily more valid. The area I pointed out is still within the area generally accepted, albeit extremely North end.

Your inferences are not his. Your inferences about his inferences may not be valid.

I dont see anything about him getting the stairs out and the placard leaving the plane that requires him to engage in a mental process something like: "Oh! Stairs are now usable. I must bail immediately!". The data suggests time passed between Cooper getting stairs out and him jumping - thats the whole point!

The time stamps are an independent measure. The time stamps don't exist because of inferences Cooper is making. The time stamps exist because of clocks. Coopers actions fit within the independent framework of clocks, not the reverse.

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The oscillation is not an estimate...the time is stamped on the transcripts. it's kind of hard to dispute, or move the jump prior to that incident. 8:10 they reported an oscillation, and stated he must be doing something with the stairs. the pressure bump is where the estimate comes into play since it's not on the transcripts.

This is hard evidence that is difficult to get around if you try to estimate anything before the 8:10 time stamp. I believe some error is possible, but not several minutes from an actual radio transmission. you would have to show the plane's 20:10 location to be where the 20:06/07 location is to become a fact?

That isn't what I meant... you are conflating time with location, I went backwards ignoring the time using placard as a location point. I only used the 20:06/07 as a reference to the believed event timeline, the timeline events may slightly be off re: location. My analysis gets around time error vs plane location. The placard location is more reliable as an event point. Start there. Work forward using events and I get that likely LZ..  it fits within events. I am using location, not timestamp. The timestamp is less precise than the placard location..

Does anybody know for 100% the exact location where the plane was when the oscillation occurred?

FLYJACK,

As Shutter points out, the time stamps on the radio transcripts are "facts".  The times are GMT and are embedded in the tapes that recorded the airliner/controller radio communications.  You absolutely cannot dismiss the time stamps.  The time stamps are the most accurate data available in the whole flight path determination.

AGAIN, THE TIME STAMPS ARE FACTS AND YOU CANNOT DISMISS THEM.

Yes, of course the timestamp = recordings.

There is no timestamp that confirms precise location of oscillation. (aka DBC jump)

Yes there is! It was after his last communication with the crew 'on the plane'. That was at 8:05. Then oscillations are reported at xx:xx. Then a bump at xx:xx. By now the plane is well south of your northern jump location. Its even south of an amended location using the New Possible weather winds in the memo.

There is nothing in physics about clocks changing due to people's mental inference making! That is 'meta physics'!

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At what point to we take anything of value, when it doesn't fit a theory?

Tbar....wrong money
LZ...wrong location, further north.
Cooper was bald, short, purple eye's..


was it really Northwest airlines, or TWA?

I believe it's possible the dredge put the money on the beach, and it's possible that Cooper landed in the river, but I can't state that as fact, or try and push it on people....

I am not claiming it as fact... Is that something that actually has to be said with every post.. then 95% of the comments need a disclaimer..

I said start there (LZ) and work South..  I just used inference to assume that he would have left the plane 15-45 seconds after the placard based on new knowledge of its use/operation. Using the Placard location that puts his LZ about 1-2 miles South of it. Since we don't know the precise location of the plane during the oscillation, using the timestamp alone is unreliable.

DBC failed to get the main stair control to work then talked to pilots.. returned to Airstairs and was successful, red light went on panel.

Ask yourself, how long after pulling off the placard/door and releasing the Airstairs would it take for him to exit or wait to exit? My opinion 15-45 sec.  The more time he waits, the less likely to be the case.

I am trying to make DZ fit events according to the placard location, you are trying to make events fit timestamp. << this is what has been done for 45 years. I am taking a different approach based on new info.

Just a different approach. One isn't necessarily more valid. The area I pointed out is still within the area generally accepted, albeit extremely North end.

Your inferences are not his. Your inferences about his inferences may not be valid.

I dont see anything about him getting the stairs out and the placard leaving the plane that requires him to engage in a mental process something like: "Oh! Stairs are now usable. I must bail immediately!". The data suggests time passed between Cooper getting stairs out and him jumping - thats the whole point!

The time stamps are an independent measure. The time stamps don't exist because of inferences Cooper is making. The time stamps exist because of clocks. Coopers actions fit within the independent framework of clocks, not the reverse.

I think I see what you are inferring..

What hard data suggests a the exact time lag between Airstair deploy and jump.

I only said start there and move south, that means the most Northerly point, highest probability.. the longer he waited the lower the probability.

If you guys disagree fine, I am sticking with exactly with what I said.

That LZ is the highest probability based on DBC leaving 15-45 sec after Airstair deploy then move south and probability goes down progressively.

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Quote

What was the exact GPS of the plane at the the 8:05 communication timestamp?

This is your theory, you should have all of the information already to back up the claim?

I am just making a point, I know what is marked on the map.