Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1832313 times)

MeyerLouie

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1800 on: May 10, 2017, 09:59:06 PM »
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FLYJACK,

When all the bluster from you is ignored, it turns out that you still don't know if the hijacked airliner was even equipped with the "Alternate Emergency System" that you claim.

If 305 was missing that placard, it's pretty obvious it had the system?

For Robert99 and Meyer, it isn't really about the placard or whatever, it is about attacking me personally.


Not at all.....the last thing I want to do is piss FLYJACK off.
Meyer
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1801 on: May 10, 2017, 10:09:39 PM »
Robb Heady's Reply on the aftstairs

Robb says he took-off with the aftstairs deployed.

Specifically: "I had the plane take off with the stairs half way down."

This is not what I heard him tell me in our multiple interviews, nor what I wrote in my book. At that time, it was my understanding that the stairs were not deployed and that Robb had only instructed the crew to leave the doorway open so that any air pressures that might develop would not prevent him from accessing the aftstairs. Robb had specifically told me that he had tried to disguise his getaway intentions. To that end he wore only a reserve belly chute and hid it under a very baggy windbreaker.

I am surprised, to say the least, at Robb's new information.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1802 on: May 10, 2017, 10:20:13 PM »
Depends on what you consider "deployed" that could mean open, or extended. they were open probably about 2 feet, once you put weight on them the stairs will go down, but they will not lock.
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1803 on: May 10, 2017, 10:30:11 PM »
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Robb Heady's Reply on the aftstairs

Robb says he took-off with the aftstairs deployed.

Specifically: "I had the plane take off with the stairs half way down."

This is not what I heard him tell me in our multiple interviews, nor what I wrote in my book. At that time, it was my understanding that the stairs were not deployed and that Robb had only instructed the crew to leave the doorway open so that any air pressures that might develop would not prevent him from accessing the aftstairs. Robb had specifically told me that he had tried to disguise his getaway intentions. To that end he wore only a reserve belly chute and hid it under a very baggy windbreaker.

I am surprised, to say the least, at Robb's new information.

It is consistent with what you wrote in 2013. He wouldn't have used the main Airstair control or Alternate Emergency Exit release if equipped.

"When I pushed for exact details on his exit, Robb said he thought he remembered the door to the aft stairway, located by the rear lavatories, was already open.  Further, he remembers the aft stairs as being slightly open upon take-off, which is what he had requested."
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 10:31:54 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1804 on: May 11, 2017, 02:41:50 AM »
Maybe I'm having another "senior moment" but I don't remember writing the above information on the aftstairs being deployed.

I'll check my notes....
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1805 on: May 11, 2017, 08:34:35 AM »
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Maybe I'm having another "senior moment" but I don't remember writing the above information on the aftstairs being deployed.

I'll check my notes....

here,

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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1806 on: May 11, 2017, 10:27:23 AM »
I revisited the DBC LZ issue,

Combined testimony and the placard location (assuming it separated form the Emergency Release Access door on ground impact) to recreate likely events and some rough back of the envelop calcs..  to come with my best DBC LZ..

I believe DBC left the plane 15-45 seconds after the Emergency Airstair Release door/placard.

Around 20:06/07 much further north of the FBI LZ and Lake Merwin,

My primary target and likely likely LZ, he might still be there (if he wasn't my foreign suspect and died in the jump) but it is a very survivable area. If I was to search, it would be here first then move South. Anybody know if that area was searched..
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 10:38:32 AM by FLYJACK »
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1807 on: May 11, 2017, 11:58:03 PM »
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I revisited the DBC LZ issue,

Combined testimony and the placard location (assuming it separated form the Emergency Release Access door on ground impact) to recreate likely events and some rough back of the envelop calcs..  to come with my best DBC LZ..

I believe DBC left the plane 15-45 seconds after the Emergency Airstair Release door/placard.

Around 20:06/07 much further north of the FBI LZ and Lake Merwin,

My primary target and likely likely LZ, he might still be there (if he wasn't my foreign suspect and died in the jump) but it is a very survivable area. If I was to search, it would be here first then move South. Anybody know if that area was searched..

Maybe Kermit can confirm but its my understanding that large groups of people have hunted this area for years. When the placard was found people went back and searched the area.  ?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 05:09:42 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1808 on: May 12, 2017, 09:17:43 AM »
Quote
Around 20:06/07 much further north of the FBI LZ and Lake Merwin

I take it you scraped the idea of the money getting hung up on the stairs?

How do you explain the oscillation, and pressure bump several minutes after the 20:06/07 location?
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1809 on: May 12, 2017, 11:23:12 AM »
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Around 20:06/07 much further north of the FBI LZ and Lake Merwin

I take it you scraped the idea of the money getting hung up on the stairs?

How do you explain the oscillation, and pressure bump several minutes after the 20:06/07 location?

TBAR is completely unrelated. The money could still have hung up stairs and dropped into the Columbia. The "hung up on stairs" is only one explanation for TBAR as is TBAR bills weren't part of DBC money or somebody found the cash in woods somewhere and moved it etc.etc.. One can and should explore more than one possible explanation for an unknown. Exploring an explanation or theory doesn't mean that is the only one to hold. I also believe he could have died in the jump and I have a strong suspect who would have survived. I don't understand why people commit 100% to one theory/explanation.

In fact, I just read about another plane hijack and ransom where the hijacker did leave some money behind.

Wasn't the oscillation estimated..  I believe/assumed he most likely jumped about 15-45 seconds after using the Emergency release. Then worked from there.

I ignored the timeline and worked from the placard location, we don't know the exact time the Emergency Access panel was used. It just happens that it lines up with about 20:05/06... and the hijacker leaving at 20:06/07.

That is just the most Northern end of the possible LZ range.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1810 on: May 12, 2017, 11:38:12 AM »
The oscillation is not an estimate...the time is stamped on the transcripts. it's kind of hard to dispute, or move the jump prior to that incident. 8:10 they reported an oscillation, and stated he must be doing something with the stairs. the pressure bump is where the estimate comes into play since it's not on the transcripts.

This is hard evidence that is difficult to get around if you try to estimate anything before the 8:10 time stamp. I believe some error is possible, but not several minutes from an actual radio transmission. you would have to show the plane's 20:10 location to be where the 20:06/07 location is to become a fact?
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1811 on: May 12, 2017, 12:47:33 PM »
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The oscillation is not an estimate...the time is stamped on the transcripts. it's kind of hard to dispute, or move the jump prior to that incident. 8:10 they reported an oscillation, and stated he must be doing something with the stairs. the pressure bump is where the estimate comes into play since it's not on the transcripts.

This is hard evidence that is difficult to get around if you try to estimate anything before the 8:10 time stamp. I believe some error is possible, but not several minutes from an actual radio transmission. you would have to show the plane's 20:10 location to be where the 20:06/07 location is to become a fact?

That isn't what I meant... you are conflating time with location, I went backwards ignoring the time using placard as a location point. I only used the 20:06/07 as a reference to the believed event timeline, the timeline events may slightly be off re: location. My analysis gets around time error vs plane location. The placard location is more reliable as an event point. Start there. Work forward using events and I get that likely LZ..  it fits within events. I am using location, not timestamp. The timestamp is less precise than the placard location..

Does anybody know for 100% the exact location where the plane was when the oscillation occurred?

 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1812 on: May 12, 2017, 12:58:20 PM »
we don't have any proof that the placard is in it's original LZ. it's been out there for years prior to being found.

Based on the time of the oscillation, and takeoff time it doesn't put the oscillation around that time frame. you would have to back things up all the way to takeoff time, and then that would be pushed back.

Calculations, and simulations have shown me that the map is plausible. the crew also states they were close to Portland, not close to Merwin dam, or before that when Cooper jumped. pushing it back based on something found on the ground years later can hardly show justification...it's possible it's in it's original location, but might not be...

you need to prove the plane took off much earlier then documented...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1813 on: May 12, 2017, 01:06:38 PM »
The transcripts give enough information with the time vs with location, but the plane would have to "pull over" in order to meet your requirements. I flew both legs (SEA to Toledo...Toledo to Merwin) with very similar times the map shows. it's very hard to change these time frames.

 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1814 on: May 12, 2017, 01:16:56 PM »
At what point to we take anything of value, when it doesn't fit a theory?

Tbar....wrong money
LZ...wrong location, further north.
Cooper was bald, short, purple eye's..


was it really Northwest airlines, or TWA?

I believe it's possible the dredge put the money on the beach, and it's possible that Cooper landed in the river, but I can't state that as fact, or try and push it on people....