Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1832237 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1755 on: May 08, 2017, 02:32:29 AM »
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The FBI seems to have run a campaign of confusion and disinformation citing -7 as one example, when in fact it was -7 Celsius (not Fahrenheit) and that was the temp aloft, not at ground level anywhere in the projected LZ at the time. (-7C = 19.4F) Shoes came off. Jaw got displaced when money bag tied around his waste flew up and knocked him out cold. His arms were pulled out of their sockets. (His members were eaten off by a grisly bears when he landed! Bears wait for things to fall from the sky and pounce and those things and eat them, immediately!) All of these accounts and projections were countered and rebutted by experts in the newspapers almost as fast as the FBI could write the scripts! Some of these projections actually came from the Boeing Sky Diving Club members.

On the other hand the FBI had asked for and received advice on what 'might have happened' from entities like the Boeing Sky Diving club. I talked to Dick P. on that club and he told me their assessment was serious and very negative in Cooper's regard immediately after the hijacking. Then one member of the Boeing club dissented and granted an interview. Dick said the whole thing became a circus of conflicting advice. Then Boeing got serious and shifted their focus on how to prevent hijackings of this type in the future - the "Cooper Vane" resulted.



One of the interesting aspects of the Cooper case - and perhaps by extension the actual wind velocities in the Vortex - is comparing the analysis of skydiving experts on the probability of DBC making a successful jump.

1. Earl Cossey has strongly advocated for BOTH conclusions. First he told his family that Cooper most likely made it, and also told the FBI that Cooper didn't have to be a pro to make it. Then a couple years later he completely reversed himself and declared that Cooper was a whuffo that most likely "cratered."

2. Ralph Hatley, the noted skydiving champion in Eagle Creek, Oregon, not only told me that he could have made the jump and he fully believes that Cooper did, too, he DIDN'T know that his good friend Earl Cossey had shifted his belief. RH looked stunned when I told him that ol' Coss was leading the charge that Coop didn't make it.

3. Eagle-Eyed Pete, aka Sheridan Peterson, aka "The Perfect Suspect," first told FBI investigators that Cooper died in the jump because of all the stuff that Cossey was saying, ie: DBC picked a bad chute, wasn't dressed for the occasion, lousy night, bad weather, bad terrain, etc. But then Ol' Petey reversed himself, too! In the History Channel broadcast the Eagle-Eyed One said he couldn't have made the jump successfully, no doubt about it.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1756 on: May 08, 2017, 04:02:29 AM »
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The FBI seems to have run a campaign of confusion and disinformation citing -7 as one example, when in fact it was -7 Celsius (not Fahrenheit) and that was the temp aloft, not at ground level anywhere in the projected LZ at the time. (-7C = 19.4F) Shoes came off. Jaw got displaced when money bag tied around his waste flew up and knocked him out cold. His arms were pulled out of their sockets. (His members were eaten off by a grisly bears when he landed! Bears wait for things to fall from the sky and pounce and those things and eat them, immediately!) All of these accounts and projections were countered and rebutted by experts in the newspapers almost as fast as the FBI could write the scripts! Some of these projections actually came from the Boeing Sky Diving Club members.

On the other hand the FBI had asked for and received advice on what 'might have happened' from entities like the Boeing Sky Diving club. I talked to Dick P. on that club and he told me their assessment was serious and very negative in Cooper's regard immediately after the hijacking. Then one member of the Boeing club dissented and granted an interview. Dick said the whole thing became a circus of conflicting advice. Then Boeing got serious and shifted their focus on how to prevent hijackings of this type in the future - the "Cooper Vane" resulted.



One of the interesting aspects of the Cooper case - and perhaps by extension the actual wind velocities in the Vortex - is comparing the analysis of skydiving experts on the probability of DBC making a successful jump.

1. Earl Cossey has strongly advocated for BOTH conclusions. First he told his family that Cooper most likely made it, and also told the FBI that Cooper didn't have to be a pro to make it. Then a couple years later he completely reversed himself and declared that Cooper was a whuffo that most likely "cratered."

2. Ralph Hatley, the noted skydiving champion in Eagle Creek, Oregon, not only told me that he could have made the jump and he fully believes that Cooper did, too, he DIDN'T know that his good friend Earl Cossey had shifted his belief. RH looked stunned when I told him that ol' Coss was leading the charge that Coop didn't make it.

3. Eagle-Eyed Pete, aka Sheridan Peterson, aka "The Perfect Suspect," first told FBI investigators that Cooper died in the jump because of all the stuff that Cossey was saying, ie: DBC picked a bad chute, wasn't dressed for the occasion, lousy night, bad weather, bad terrain, etc. But then Ol' Petey reversed himself, too! In the History Channel broadcast the Eagle-Eyed One said he couldn't have made the jump successfully, no doubt about it.

It's worth noting  ;) that the FBI put forth a great deal of effort over many years searching for - a living suspect or suspects! If they were sure he had died, why bother?  A good share of the tips they ran down and photos of suspects they showed to witnesses like Mitchell, were of living people or people presumed to still be alive. Searches of DOA records turned up nothing.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 04:10:29 AM by georger »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1757 on: May 08, 2017, 09:47:33 AM »
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Yes it is still my intention to go up to the placard find location. I have been recovering from a little bug and awaiting better weather which seems to be finally heading our way here in Washington. I will be accompanying Meyer on his Tina Bar project soon also hopefully.

Nice, keep an eye out, there should be small "emergency" access door with finger holes in it still out there somewhere.
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1758 on: May 08, 2017, 12:23:21 PM »
Bruce wrote: "Ol' Petey reversed himself, too! In the History Channel broadcast the Eagle-Eyed One said he couldn't have made the jump successfully, no doubt about it."

I have no doubt that Sheridan could have made the jump and survived it. He is a highly skilled parachutist, resourceful and tough. His smoke jumping experience and USMC training puts him way ahead of fun jumpers in his chances of making a successful wilderness landing, evading searchers and making an undetected egress.

Just last weekend Sheridan was in a jumpship at 12,000 feet over Cloverdale CA wearing a chute (FAA required for everyone in a jumpship). The DZ wouldn't let him jump (he is in his 90s) but he got to watch skydivers exit. I have offered to buy him a tandem jump, but understandably he said no. A tandem jump for an old expert jumper feels too much like diapers or a wheelchair.

377



 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1759 on: May 08, 2017, 05:05:48 PM »
Eagle-Eyed Pete

What's Sheridan up to? When I last emailed him - Holiday time - he said he was getting kicked out of his apartment due to gentrification and planning on escaping that mis-guided political mishigas and Trump by moving to Nicaragua - and wanting me to go with him.

As for being Mr. Norjak, I say that Petey would have made it. And he could be DBC, but I don't think so. Nevertheless, his skill set and grudge capacity approach what I think are the essential characteristics for the Real Skyjacker.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 05:39:02 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1760 on: May 08, 2017, 05:15:28 PM »
He moved, still in the same area, very active in Vets support activities. Looks and acts fit. Doesn't have an old guy demeanor or attitude.

While, by his own admission, "everything [about NORJACK] pointed to me, EVERYTHING", Sheridan seems to have a solid moral compass. Can't see him threatening to blow people up just to get some bucks. He has no criminal history and abhors violence.

I'd like to look half as good as Sheridan when I hit my 90s.  ;)

377
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 05:19:38 PM by 377 »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1761 on: May 08, 2017, 05:25:05 PM »
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Yes it is still my intention to go up to the placard find location. I have been recovering from a little bug and awaiting better weather which seems to be finally heading our way here in Washington. I will be accompanying Meyer on his Tina Bar project soon also hopefully.

Nice, keep an eye out, there should be small "emergency" access door with finger holes in it still out there somewhere.

Finding that door would trump the Amboy Chute discovery. Also there MIGHT be recoverable DNA or a print on it. One can hope.

Against huge odds, the US Navy found a lost airliner door. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

377
 
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Offline Kermit

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1762 on: May 08, 2017, 05:55:02 PM »
Since this " emergency door " is all new to me, it would be helpful if there was,a photo of it.
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1763 on: May 08, 2017, 06:27:34 PM »
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Since this " emergency door " is all new to me, it would be helpful if there was,a photo of it.

I have tried to find an actual image but haven't been successful probably because the emergency release was only in some early 727-100's. I found a few graphical "representations" in safety brochures and it appears to be slightly larger than the placard with finger holes to pull from the wall, it completely detached so no hinges. Possibly 5 rivets or holes where the placard attached.

Should be (whitish) thin plastic about 10"x10" +/- with finger holes at the top, might have the other 1/4 of the placard still attached. Take a plastic bag, if you see anything that is close, mark your location. Long shot but never know.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 06:37:53 PM by FLYJACK »
 
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Offline Kermit

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1764 on: May 08, 2017, 08:24:00 PM »
Long shot for sure but one never knows. This area is not that remote as lots of hunters walk through these woods.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1765 on: May 08, 2017, 11:15:43 PM »
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Since this " emergency door " is all new to me, it would be helpful if there was,a photo of it.

I have tried to find an actual image but haven't been successful probably because the emergency release was only in some early 727-100's. I found a few graphical "representations" in safety brochures and it appears to be slightly larger than the placard with finger holes to pull from the wall, it completely detached so no hinges. Possibly 5 rivets or holes where the placard attached.

Should be (whitish) thin plastic about 10"x10" +/- with finger holes at the top, might have the other 1/4 of the placard still attached. Take a plastic bag, if you see anything that is close, mark your location. Long shot but never know.

Strange this never came up before in any venue. 377 never mentioned this in his extensive posts, using 727 manuals. Snowmman even missed this! Nothing about this panel in newspaper articles or at the Boeing website?  :-X
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 11:39:11 PM by georger »
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1766 on: May 08, 2017, 11:42:28 PM »
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Since this " emergency door " is all new to me, it would be helpful if there was,a photo of it.

I have tried to find an actual image but haven't been successful probably because the emergency release was only in some early 727-100's. I found a few graphical "representations" in safety brochures and it appears to be slightly larger than the placard with finger holes to pull from the wall, it completely detached so no hinges. Possibly 5 rivets or holes where the placard attached.

Should be (whitish) thin plastic about 10"x10" +/- with finger holes at the top, might have the other 1/4 of the placard still attached. Take a plastic bag, if you see anything that is close, mark your location. Long shot but never know.

FLYJACK,

As has been pointed out previously, the hijacked NWA airliner was a Boeing 727-051 model.  The Boeing 727-100 models came later.
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1767 on: May 08, 2017, 11:59:19 PM »
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Since this " emergency door " is all new to me, it would be helpful if there was,a photo of it.

I have tried to find an actual image but haven't been successful probably because the emergency release was only in some early 727-100's. I found a few graphical "representations" in safety brochures and it appears to be slightly larger than the placard with finger holes to pull from the wall, it completely detached so no hinges. Possibly 5 rivets or holes where the placard attached.

Should be (whitish) thin plastic about 10"x10" +/- with finger holes at the top, might have the other 1/4 of the placard still attached. Take a plastic bag, if you see anything that is close, mark your location. Long shot but never know.

FLYJACK,

As has been pointed out previously, the hijacked NWA airliner was a Boeing 727-051 model.  The Boeing 727-100 models came later.

sorry Robert99, wrong.. again,,,   I am really worried about you guys.

The 727-051 was the model designation, it was a 727-100 series. In fact the very first 727 was a 727-100..

727-100
The first 727-100 (N7001U) flew on February 9, 1963[30] and FAA type approval was awarded on December 24 of that year, with initial delivery to United Airlines on October 29, 1963, to allow pilot training to commence. The first 727 passenger service was flown by Eastern Air Lines on February 1, 1964, between Miami, Washington, DC, and Philadelphia.


I have detailed info/attachments on the Airtsiars in a post.. the secondary "emergency release" system is not in the manuals, it seemed to be an option on some earlier configurations.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 12:02:50 AM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1768 on: May 09, 2017, 12:03:16 AM »
I'm look in my pilot manual and can't find any pics of the emergency system...the photo below shows the handle in a metal/plastic case. I don't see an access door?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 12:03:32 AM by Shutter »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1769 on: May 09, 2017, 12:14:10 AM »
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I'm look in my pilot manual and can't find any pics of the emergency system...the photo below shows the handle in a metal/plastic case. I don't see an access door?

There is no emergency Airstair release system on that plane..

It is all explained in my previous post/attachments on the Airtairs..

The "emergency release" access is a small detachable cover to the left of the much larger main control hinged door.






« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 12:30:59 AM by FLYJACK »