Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.4%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.9%)
100 Cooper lived
24 (37.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1832104 times)

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1650 on: May 01, 2017, 12:21:50 PM »
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Robert is 100% correct about the widespread layoffs at Boeing. However I seriously doubt he worked for Boeing although I see why people make the jump. Once again Boeing is like 10 miles from SeaTac and the massive layoffs had happened shortly before the highjacking. I'll buy into the Ex military theory but not exclusively as way too many options.

Too many options may be one reason he was never traced? That's why physical evidence was so important. The FBI allowed Kaye to do his tests - now if they will just allow others (like forensic geneticists) to get involved. It might turn this around...

Agree with Georger. I know zip about genetics and DNA forensics but read a news article about extracting human DNA from cave dirt and wondered if new techniques might be put to use in solving the mystery of DBC's ID.

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If Cooper pulled off the placard, might some DNA be affixed to the adhesive side?

377
 

Offline sailshaw

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1651 on: May 01, 2017, 01:20:18 PM »
Georger   It looks like a definite FBI cover-up and that they know Sheridan Peterson is DB Cooper but are giving him cover as he was CIA in Vietnam. That is why the case remains unsolved even though there exists enough evidence pointing to Sheridan. His phony alibi that he was in Nepal delivering one of his two children is bogus as he had no children born in the same year a Norjak. That is a lie to the FBI and why would he lie if he was not DB Cooper? Anyway, we are lost if the FBI wants to stonewall the case. Also the DNA from the envelopes/flaps/stamps are a match with Sheridan, but we can't prove that thanks to the FBI Cover-up.
Bob Sailshaw
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Offline dice

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1652 on: May 01, 2017, 01:30:23 PM »
Bob, you say: "the DNA from the envelopes/flaps/stamps are a match with Sheridan"

I say: "With what exact information do you come to this conclusion ?    And ............the FBI and CIA as a whole, generally hate each other.  Had it been a CIA operative and the FBI stood down on it, say, Nixon asked them to stand down.... well, eventually that detailed caper would have been loud whispers by now, on the rumor circuit, after Nixon and division heads long deceased.  Having said that,  a CIA Op with Sheridan using brown contacts, without a FBI stand down, is possible but seems way too implausible, as Sheridan's photo would have been shown quicker than later, to both Mucklow and Mitchell."
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 01:36:29 PM by diclemeg »
Purdue 38  Iowa 36
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1653 on: May 01, 2017, 01:51:25 PM »
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Dummy Chute, Revisited

A new DBC reader by the name of John S. has queried me several times on a interesting angle of Norjak: Why wasn't the dummy chute found on the plane in Reno? If it couldn't be attached to the Pioneer harness and wasn't used to stash money, what value did it have? If Cooper didn't simply leave it on the plane as useless junk, then what did he do with it? What are some of the plausible uses?

Plus, was the second reserve chute really a dummy parachute with an "X" on it? What do we really know about this parachute?

Obviously the FBI and Cossey were lying through their teeth.

The dummy chute idea was invented for dummies.

The socalled dummy chute was a backpack which Cooper wanted! Cooper took the backpack with him, which makes Tina's stories a lie too.

What else can be imagined that might be true?  Your work is impeccable Bruce.


Couldn't agree more, Georger.  Right on.
Meyer
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1654 on: May 01, 2017, 03:01:35 PM »
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Robert is 100% correct about the widespread layoffs at Boeing. However I seriously doubt he worked for Boeing although I see why people make the jump. Once again Boeing is like 10 miles from SeaTac and the massive layoffs had happened shortly before the highjacking. I'll buy into the Ex military theory but not exclusively as way too many options.

Too many options may be one reason he was never traced? That's why physical evidence was so important. The FBI allowed Kaye to do his tests - now if they will just allow others (like forensic geneticists) to get involved. It might turn this around...

Agree with Georger. I know zip about genetics and DNA forensics but read a news article about extracting human DNA from cave dirt and wondered if new techniques might be put to use in solving the mystery of DBC's ID.

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If Cooper pulled off the placard, might some DNA be affixed to the adhesive side?

377

So long as the FBI continues to work with book writers, commentators, and protagonistas over qualified geneticists on the problem, it basically means the FBI doesn't give a shit! You can't fix stupid.  Or empowered arrogance!  ::)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 03:04:04 PM by georger »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1655 on: May 01, 2017, 04:49:51 PM »
Georger wrote: ..."You can't fix stupid.  Or empowered arrogance!  ::)"

We have four years to try.  ;)

377
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1656 on: May 01, 2017, 09:35:20 PM »
Cooper prints....
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1657 on: May 01, 2017, 10:14:07 PM »
In 1976-77, I believe, they had 908 suspects and have eliminated 880 of them. this is a direct quote once again from the FBI stating they "eliminate" suspects. some people like to say the opposite to the truth, or make up there own little "emails" stating differently...
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 05:38:29 AM by Shutter »
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1658 on: May 01, 2017, 10:56:49 PM »
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Dummy Chute, Revisited

A new DBC reader by the name of John S. has queried me several times on a interesting angle of Norjak: Why wasn't the dummy chute found on the plane in Reno? If it couldn't be attached to the Pioneer harness and wasn't used to stash money, what value did it have? If Cooper didn't simply leave it on the plane as useless junk, then what did he do with it? What are some of the plausible uses?

Plus, was the second reserve chute really a dummy parachute with an "X" on it? What do we really know about this parachute?

Obviously the FBI and Cossey were lying through their teeth.

The dummy chute idea was invented for dummies.

The socalled dummy chute was a backpack which Cooper wanted! Cooper took the backpack with him, which makes Tina's stories a lie too.

What else can be imagined that might be true?  Your work is impeccable Bruce.


Couldn't agree more, Georger.  Right on.  If Cooper took the 'X' chute, then he must have seen some need for it.  Otherwise, he wouldn't have taken it.  No more, no less.
Meyer
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1659 on: May 02, 2017, 03:41:18 AM »
So what was the need? Any ideas?
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1660 on: May 02, 2017, 03:53:14 AM »
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So what was the need? Any ideas?

Ask Cooper !  :))
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1661 on: May 02, 2017, 11:16:02 AM »
About those Fazio cow mutilations.

Space Aliens masquerading as Badgers?

377
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1662 on: May 02, 2017, 11:51:03 AM »
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Negotiable American Currency

I dont understand some people's fixation with this. The phrase stated by the crew makes perfect sense in the context and timing in which it was said. It's the context and timing people keep avoiding! We know who said it and why they said it - the crew said it! Cooper didn't say it! We know why the crew said it!

Flyjack insists:

FLYJACK
Dec 27, 2013, 8:37 AM
Post #49623 of 58140 (45156 views)
Re: [Smokin99] "negotiable American currency" [In reply to]
 
________________________________________
Smokin99 wrote:
There is no way to tell whether those were Cooper's exact words, or whether it was something the crew said on their own to make sure the FBI didn't play games about the ransom.

FLYJACK:
Sure, but explain why the crew might add it,,, if they are American,,, the argument makes no sense,, the hijacker didn't say it because he is an American, but the crew added it even though they are American..

something doesn't add up here..
   

This has nothing to do with American vs. foreign or anything else related to Cooper identity! This was a statement made by a crew member in the context of, or in reply to, what was being said and happening at the time in the plane - which was Cooper's demands and destination just having been given and now being communicated to_ THE CREW IS COMMUNICATING TO PEOPLE ON THE GROUND!

1. Cooper had just demanded $200,000 denominations not important. He specified that.
2. Cooper had just specified his destination as "Mexico City" and "the plane will not stop anywhere in the United States".

Cooper has just specified 'cash - denominations not important'. Cooper has just specified 'Mexico City' and said the plane cannot stop anywhere in the United States. Cooper has just demanded a one-way-trip from Seattle to Mexico City ... which is in a foreign country!

A crew member is now trying to translate all of this to the ground in brief intelligible terms anyone could understand. "Negotiable American Currency". The phrase covers all aspects of Cooper's demands in a single phrase anyone can understand. No more. No less.

It is context and time context a crew member is trying to communicate the hijacker's demands.

That is ALL there is to this. It is the crew communicating with the ground, not Cooper communicating to the world! These aren't Cooper's own words. They are a crew member's words in TACTICAL TECHNICAL SPEAK said in simple terms so any dumbass in the masses listening can understand ! The crew member is stating what will work in this situation where the hijacker wants cash and is headed for a foreign country right across the US border.   

 :))

WRONG,

Wrong premise, ok logic and false conclusion..

The "Mexico City" destination was given AFTER the money was received. When the pilots relayed "American" currency they didn't have knowledge of a foreign destination.

Tina relayed communication between the pilots and hijacker,, from FBI..

"He later told TINA that he wanted $200,000 in circulated U.S. currency, two back and two front parachutes, and fuel trucks to meet the plane when it landed at Seattle.

The use of US/American currency is consistent with terms a foreigner would use. I know, I am a foreigner. This doesn't prove that the hijacker was a foreigner but it supports the theory.


 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1663 on: May 02, 2017, 12:21:13 PM »
Did some research on the Airstairs, I haven't found this covered elsewhere so I think some is new and important.

Regarding the Placard, there is probably a small door panel possibly with the other 1/4 of the placard still attached out in the woods near the partial placard found location. The placard was described as "heavy plastic” and looks like it was attached by rivets or screws not adhesive/decal?. The piece of Placard that was found was from the secondary “Emergency Airstsair Release System” not the primary system. Using the Secondary Emergency System involves pulling off an access door, the Placard was from this door. (that door becomes completely detached when accessed)

Some interesting information about the Airstair operation and the “rare" secondary "emergency" release system.

The 727 has the Primary Airstair release lever behind a hinged panel at the top of the stairs, when the lever is moved the stairs initiallly freefall but use hydraulics to lock down. NOTE: There is a button on top of the handle that must be pressed to move lever. The hijacker initially failed to operate the Airstairs. After contact with the pilots, he likely then tried the secondary “emergency system” next to the main system accessed by completely detaching the door/cover, where the placard was attached.

A 727 Safety Card confirms the operation, if the stairs fail to lower via the main control (hinged access door), SOME planes are equipped with an “Emergency” System. THE AIRSTAIRS EMERGENCY SYSTEM ACCESS DOOR GETS COMPLETELY REMOVED/DETACHED WHEN ACCESSED. << The found Placard piece is from here.

The secondary “emergency" release system was installed on only 164 passenger 727-100’s.  Using this system “will cause uplocks to be sheared and forcibly extend the stairs extensive damage will be caused to the system”

This suggest that there may be an emergency access door from NORJAK still out there in the woods possibly with the other 1/4 of the placard attached.


review sequence..

According to TINA in the FBI interview notes, she showed the hijacker how to operate the Airstairs main control. Remember, there is a button on the lever that must be pressed to move the lever for the main control. Tina moved to the cockpit before the hijacker called and said he couldn’t get the stairs down, the pilots levelled and slowed, then after a short time Tina noticed the red indicator light on the second officer’s panel indicating Airstair operation.  A RED light indicated the Airstairs were unlocked in "free fall”. Using the “emergency” stair system requires removal of the panel and pulling a cable, the top stair locks are sheared and the stairs fall. The stairs would have been damaged, loosey goosey and very difficult to descend at speed.
IMPORTANT-
A RED LIGHT INDICATES AIRSTAIRS OPEN BUT NOT LOCKED UP OR DOWN.
AN AMBER LIGHT INDICATES AIRSTAIR LEVER IN RAISING POSITION.
A GREEN LIGHT INDICATED DOWN AND LOCKED.
(the hijacker’s first attempt to lower the Airstairs did not activate the red light/unlock them suggests that he couldn’t move the main lever and didn’t press the button on top)


The hijacker's knowledge of the stairs also being controlled from the cabin demonstrated knowledge but he lacked experience as he couldn’t lower the stairs (press the button on lever). Ironically, if that particular plane had not been equipped with the second “emergency” Airstair release system, he may not have gotten out of the plane.



Conclusion,,

The hijacker was shown how to operate the main Airstair control but his attempt failed to even unlock the Airstairs probably because he didn’t know that a button needs to be pressed on the lever. (no red light indicator until  some time after call to pilots and second attempt). The hijacker called the pilots, they levelled and slowed down the plane, he then used the “emergency” Airstair release which is behind a removable panel (this is where the found placard came from). The red light indicated that the stairs were not locked down and the emergency system sheared the upper locks leaving the stairs in a
"free fall".

Getting down those 2’ 8” wide stairs with chutes and Airstairs in their unlocked/sheared "free fall" position at nearly 200 mph would have been very difficult.. 
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 12:37:08 PM by FLYJACK »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #1664 on: May 02, 2017, 12:22:03 PM »
two more attachments re Airstairs..